Commander/EDH Deck Talk

A place to talk about standard, casual, limited and everything in between.
RadioshackRaider
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Re: Commander/EDH Deck Talk

Postby RadioshackRaider » 03 Oct 2014, 12:05

So I've come to the conclusion that I need to get off my whole refusing to play rare dual lands. Outside of shocks and fetches (I'm never going to play fetches), what are the dual lands I should be hunting for for commander?
Conan_Edogawa
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Re: Commander/EDH Deck Talk

Postby Conan_Edogawa » 05 Oct 2014, 01:35

just built a new Anafenza deck. I call it "Outlast Steakhouse"

Commander: Anafenza

Creature (26)

1x Abzan Battle Priest
1x Abzan Falconer
1x Ainok Bond-Kin
1x Ajani's Pridemate *F*
1x Armament Corps
1x Birds of Paradise
1x Blood Baron of Vizkopa
1x Corpsejack Menace *F*
1x Courser of Kruphix
1x Desecration Demon
1x Enlisted Wurm *F*
1x Experiment One *F*
1x Genesis Hydra
1x Herald of Anafenza
1x High Sentinels of Arashin *F*
1x Kitchen Finks
1x Longshot Squad
1x Meadowboon
1x Mer-Ek Nightblade
1x Pharika, God of Affliction
1x Sakura-Tribe Elder
1x Salt Road Patrol
1x Siege Rhino *F*
1x Sylvan Caryatid *F*
1x Tuskguard Captain
1x Wurmcoil Engine *F*

Planeswalker (6)

1x Ajani, Caller of the Pride
1x Garruk, Apex Predator
1x Garruk, Caller of Beasts
1x Garruk Relentless
1x Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1x Vraska the Unseen

Artifact (8)

1x Batterskull
1x Behemoth Sledge *F*
1x Chromatic Lantern
1x Coercive Portal
1x Lightning Greaves
1x Sol Ring
1x Staff of Nin *F*
1x Sword of Fire and Ice

Instant (7)

1x Abzan Charm
1x Dragonscale Boon
1x Feat of Resistance
1x Hindervines
1x Ready / Willing
1x Silence the Believers
1x Utter End

Sorcery (10)

1x Despise
1x Duneblast *F*
1x End Hostilities
1x Farseek *F*
1x Harmonize
1x In Garruk's Wake *F*
1x Incremental Growth
1x Kin-Tree Invocation
1x Obzedat's Aid
1x Tempt with Discovery

Enchantment (8)

1x Abzan Ascendancy *F*
1x Awakening Zone
1x Brave the Sands
1x Cathars' Crusade
1x Hardened Scales
1x Parallel Lives
1x Primal Vigor
1x Retribution of the Ancients

Land (34)

1x Blossoming Sands
1x Cavern of Souls
1x Caves of Koilos
1x Command Tower
1x Evolving Wilds *F*
6x Forest
1x Gavony Township
1x Godless Shrine
1x Homeward Path
1x Jungle Hollow
1x Llanowar Wastes
1x Mutavault
1x Opal Palace
1x Overgrown Tomb
2x Plains
1x Razorverge Thicket
1x Reliquary Tower *F*
1x Sandsteppe Citadel
1x Scoured Barrens
1x Sunpetal Grove
1x Swamp
1x Temple Garden
1x Temple of Malady
1x Temple of Plenty *F*
1x Temple of Silence *F*
1x Terramorphic Expanse *F*
1x Windswept Heath
1x Woodland Cemetery
Last edited by Conan_Edogawa on 05 Oct 2014, 16:52, edited 1 time in total.
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Lurkon
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Re: Commander/EDH Deck Talk

Postby Lurkon » 05 Oct 2014, 03:01

That name is amazing.
Do a Pivot Table!

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Conan_Edogawa
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Re: Commander/EDH Deck Talk

Postby Conan_Edogawa » 05 Oct 2014, 06:55

thank you. :)
RadioshackRaider
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Re: Commander/EDH Deck Talk

Postby RadioshackRaider » 05 Oct 2014, 08:20

Should I run Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx in all 32 Commander decks I plan on having? I've got 16 ATM but I feel that it'd be fairly weak in multicolour decks.
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Re: Commander/EDH Deck Talk

Postby Psithief » 05 Oct 2014, 09:59

Off-topic: I sure hope you're asking in the context of MtG:Online, else where are you going to store 32 100-card deck boxes?
I sure enjoy watching LRR!

I wouldn't want to meet them though. I'm very allergic to cats and fun.
RadioshackRaider
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Location: Scotland

Re: Commander/EDH Deck Talk

Postby RadioshackRaider » 05 Oct 2014, 10:23

I don't play MTGO. I don't see the point. I don't keep decks in individual deck boxes. I plan on getting a few of those cube boxes Magic Madhouse sells to store the bulk of 'em.
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Re: Commander/EDH Deck Talk

Postby ElFuzzy » 05 Oct 2014, 17:25

Watched Friday Nights again... and I think I really want to make that Narset Deck. The problem is I don't have any idea where to go after the things Cameron mentioned. I already have a top and I might be able to trade someone for their Omniscience/Enter the Infinite Comb, but what do I do before that?
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Re: Commander/EDH Deck Talk

Postby Gildan_Bladeborn » 06 Oct 2014, 03:36

RadioshackRaider wrote:So I've come to the conclusion that I need to get off my whole refusing to play rare dual lands. Outside of shocks and fetches (I'm never going to play fetches), what are the dual lands I should be hunting for for commander?

That depends on what color decks you're planning on running obviously - the allied color pairs have a lot more options than the enemy color pairs (a lot of dual-land cycles were printed only for the allied pairs), which is bad news if you're looking to get "inexpensive" fixing for certain color combinations. You also have a good amount of dual lands printed at the uncommon level, but since you asked about rares, here's what's available (apart from the ones you mentioned already, and the obvious "arm and a leg Revised Duals"), sorted by category (ignoring lands that tap for any color, since you specifically asked about rare duals). Card names all link to the respective Gatherer pages.

Signet Lands
Advantages: Come into play untapped, tap for 2 mana (one of each color).
Disadvantages: - Requires an activation cost to tap, only printed for the allied color pairs.

A cycle of lands that let you pay one colorless and tap to add a mana of each of the allied color pair's colors. Since the activation cost is colorless, they're not technically a "strictly worse" version of the later Filter Lands.

Cards in this cycle:
Printings: Only ever printed in Odyssey (so no modern card frame).

Wacky Future Sight Lands
Advantages: Come into play untapped.
Disadvantages: Varies from land to land, only printed for the allied color pairs.

This "cycle" of rare dual lands from Future Sight is a cycle only in the sense that they are all dual-lands and there were 5 of them, as they all function completely differently from the others. Due to that, I'll be going into a lot more detail than the other land cycles on the list.

Cards in this cycle:
    1. Nimbus Maze - Azorius (White/Blue). The downside to this land is that it only taps for White if you control an Island, and Blue if you control a Plains, otherwise it just taps for colorless (if you control both those types of lands then it functions like a normal dual land that you could also tap for colorless for some reason).
    2. River of Tears - Dimir (Blue/Black). This one is weird - you can always tap it for Blue, unless you play a land on the turn you tap it, and then it taps for Black instead. Not exactly the most reliable dual land ever printed.
    3. Graven Cairns - Rakdos (Black/Red). It's a Filter Land, see that section for more information.
    4. Grove of the Burnwillows - Gruul (Red/Green). Always taps for colorless with no drawback, but if you tap it for Red or Green then each of your opponents gains 1 life.
    5. Horizon Canopy - Selesnya (Green/White). The downside to this card is that tapping it for mana requires you to also pay 1 life, the "upside" is that you can also pay 1 colorless and sac it to draw a card. Probably the worst of the cycle considering all the options for Selesnya-colored fixing available.

Printings: 3 of the 5 were only printed in Future Sight, Graven Cairns was reprinted in Shadowmoor and Grove of the Burnwillows was reprinted in From the Vault: Realms.

Lorywn/Morningtide "Tribal" Lands
Advantages: Can enter untapped.
Disadvantages: Requires revealing cards to enter untapped, only printed for specific color combinations.

The Tribal Lands were all printed with one of the tribes from Lorywn in mind - as you play them, you can reveal a card of the associated tribe from your hand to make them enter the battlefield untapped. Outside of dedicated tribal decks they're basically just an alternative guildgate, but only for the specific color pairings that were used in Lorywn. The lone tribal land from Morningtide is the exception, as that one actually taps for wedge colors, and has additional drawbacks/benefits.

Cards in this cycle:
    1. Wanderwine Hub - Azorius (White/Blue), requires a revealed Merfolk card to enter untapped.
    2. Secluded Den - Dimir (Blue/Black), requires a revealed Faerie card to enter untapped.
    3. Auntie's Hovel - Rakdos (Black/Red), requires a revealed Goblin card to enter untapped.
    4. Gilt-Leaf Palace - Golgari (Black/Green), requires a revealed Elf card to enter untapped.
    5. Ancient Ampitheater - Boros (Red/White), requires a revealed Giant card to enter untapped.
    6. Murmuring Bosk - Abzan (White/Black/Green), requires a revealed Treefolk card to enter untapped. Additionally it's a nonbasic Forest (which is how it taps for Green), and tapping it for White or Black also deals 1 damage to you.

Printings: The 5 tribal lands from Lorywn have never been reprinted, Murmuring Bosk was reprinted in From the Vault: Realms.

Filter Lands
Advantages: Enter untapped, tapping them for colored mana produces 2 mana in any combination of their two colors.
Disadvantages: Tapping for colored mana requires a colored mana activation.

The Filter lands are exceptional dual lands in a 2 color deck, and still good but not quite as reliable in a deck with 3 or more colors (due to the colored activation cost, which is a hybrid of their 2 colors); unlike the signet lands, they always tap for a colorless so you can play and actually use them turn 1, and the colored mana they produce is either XX, XY, or YY where X and Y are the two colors they tap for.

Cards in this cycle:
Printings: The allied duals in the cycle were only printed in Shadowmoor (except Graven Cairns, which was reprinted from Future Sight), and the enemy duals were only printed in Eventide.

Dual-land Manlands
Advantages: Can turn into a dude.
Disadvantages: Enter tapped, only printed for the allied color pairs.

This cycle from Worldwake are essentially "better guildgates" (unless you're also playing Mazes' End or something that cares about the Gate subtype), in that you can pay an activation cost and turn them into a variety of dudes with different abilities, depending on the land. Or just tap them for one of two colors of mana.

Cards in this cycle:
Printings: Only printed in Worldwake.

Check Lands (by Number)
Advantages: Can enter untapped.
Disadvantages: Past turn 3 probably won't enter untapped, only printed for the allied color pairs.

The check lands from Scars of Mirrodin are duals that check for a condition to see if they come in tapped or untapped; in this case that condition if whether or not you have two or fewer other lands when you play them. Strictly better than a guildgate.

Cards in this cycle:
Printings: Only printed in Scars of Mirrodin.

Check Lands (by Basic Land type)
Advantages: Can enter untapped.
Disadvantages: Require basic land types already in play to enter untapped.

This cycle of check lands (which is actually 2 cycles, one for the allied colors and one for the enemy colors) is sort of the inverse of the previous type, in that they're strictly worse than the type that cares about the number of lands on turn one, but strictly better later in the game as long as you have 1 of the applicable land types in play. Strictly better than guildgates.

Cards in this cycle:
Printings: The allied color dual cycle were first printed in M10 and reprinted in M11, M12, and M13, and Rootbound Crag was also reprinted in the Premium Deck: Slivers series. The enemy color duals were only printed in Innistrad, with the exception of Isolated Chapel, which was reprinted in the Modern Event Deck 2014.

Pain Lands
Advantages: Come into play untapped.
Disadvantages: Tapping for colored mana hurts you.

The Pain lands provide fixing at a price - pinging you for 1 point of damage each time you decide that you need to tap them for colored mana. Whether or not that price is worth it depends a lot on the type of deck you're looking to build; I personally don't run them, but I understand why other people do.

Cards in this cycle:
Printings: The allied color cycle was first printed in Ice Age and reprinted in Fifth Edition, Classic Sixth Edition, Seventh Edition, Ninth Edition, and Tenth Edition (which is the one to get if you want the modern frame and no white borders). The enemy color cycle was first printed in Apocalypse, and reprinted in Ninth Edition, Tenth Edition, and M15. Caves of Koilos was also reprinted in the Modern Event Deck 2014.

The "Strictly Worse" Pain Lands
Advantages: None.
Disadvantages: Come into play tapped, only printed for the enemy color pairs, same drawback as regular Pain Lands.

You really should not run these lands, as they're 100% worse in every possible way than a guild gate - you get set back a turn, AND get you to ping yourself whenever you need to tap them for colored mana. Because they are dual lands that were printed at Rare, I'm listing them here for completion's sake, but I would urge you NOT to use them. Seriously, these are awful (which makes their inclusion in Vintage Masters kind of funny, since outside of Draft ain't nobody using these in that format).

Cards in this cycle:
Printings: Only printed in Tempest (though included in Vintage Masters, but bumped down to Uncommon).

Depletion Counter Lands
Advantages: They come in untapped.
Disadvantages: They basically only tap every other turn, only printed for the allied color pairs.

Like the "strictly worse" pain lands, I also do not recommend you run these lands, but they are rare duals and I'm thorough, so here they are anyways. Barring some way to reliably remove counters from them, these lands essentially tap once and then don't untap again until 2 turns later, making them lands you can only tap for mana every other turn; that coupled with their color combinations (the allied colors, which have by far the most dual land options available) makes them pretty much unplayable, especially when you consider there are not one, but two other uncommon land cycles with the same drawback that also let you tap them for colorless without locking them down for an entire turn; don't run these lands folks, they're bad.

Cards in this cycle:
Printings: Only printed in Ice Age.
RadioshackRaider
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Re: Commander/EDH Deck Talk

Postby RadioshackRaider » 06 Oct 2014, 14:13

Gildan_Bladeborn wrote:
RadioshackRaider wrote:So I've come to the conclusion that I need to get off my whole refusing to play rare dual lands. Outside of shocks and fetches (I'm never going to play fetches), what are the dual lands I should be hunting for for commander?

That depends on what color decks you're planning on running obviously - the allied color pairs have a lot more options than the enemy color pairs (a lot of dual-land cycles were printed only for the allied pairs), which is bad news if you're looking to get "inexpensive" fixing for certain color combinations. You also have a good amount of dual lands printed at the uncommon level, but since you asked about rares, here's what's available (apart from the ones you mentioned already, and the obvious "arm and a leg Revised Duals"), sorted by category (ignoring lands that tap for any color, since you specifically asked about rare duals). Card names all link to the respective Gatherer pages.

Signet Lands
Advantages: Come into play untapped, tap for 2 mana (one of each color).
Disadvantages: - Requires an activation cost to tap, only printed for the allied color pairs.

A cycle of lands that let you pay one colorless and tap to add a mana of each of the allied color pair's colors. Since the activation cost is colorless, they're not technically a "strictly worse" version of the later Filter Lands.

Cards in this cycle:
Printings: Only ever printed in Odyssey (so no modern card frame).

Wacky Future Sight Lands
Advantages: Come into play untapped.
Disadvantages: Varies from land to land, only printed for the allied color pairs.

This "cycle" of rare dual lands from Future Sight is a cycle only in the sense that they are all dual-lands and there were 5 of them, as they all function completely differently from the others. Due to that, I'll be going into a lot more detail than the other land cycles on the list.

Cards in this cycle:
    1. Nimbus Maze - Azorius (White/Blue). The downside to this land is that it only taps for White if you control an Island, and Blue if you control a Plains, otherwise it just taps for colorless (if you control both those types of lands then it functions like a normal dual land that you could also tap for colorless for some reason).
    2. River of Tears - Dimir (Blue/Black). This one is weird - you can always tap it for Blue, unless you play a land on the turn you tap it, and then it taps for Black instead. Not exactly the most reliable dual land ever printed.
    3. Graven Cairns - Rakdos (Black/Red). It's a Filter Land, see that section for more information.
    4. Grove of the Burnwillows - Gruul (Red/Green). Always taps for colorless with no drawback, but if you tap it for Red or Green then each of your opponents gains 1 life.
    5. Horizon Canopy - Selesnya (Green/White). The downside to this card is that tapping it for mana requires you to also pay 1 life, the "upside" is that you can also pay 1 colorless and sac it to draw a card. Probably the worst of the cycle considering all the options for Selesnya-colored fixing available.

Printings: 3 of the 5 were only printed in Future Sight, Graven Cairns was reprinted in Shadowmoor and Grove of the Burnwillows was reprinted in From the Vault: Realms.

Lorywn/Morningtide "Tribal" Lands
Advantages: Can enter untapped.
Disadvantages: Requires revealing cards to enter untapped, only printed for specific color combinations.

The Tribal Lands were all printed with one of the tribes from Lorywn in mind - as you play them, you can reveal a card of the associated tribe from your hand to make them enter the battlefield untapped. Outside of dedicated tribal decks they're basically just an alternative guildgate, but only for the specific color pairings that were used in Lorywn. The lone tribal land from Morningtide is the exception, as that one actually taps for wedge colors, and has additional drawbacks/benefits.

Cards in this cycle:
    1. Wanderwine Hub - Azorius (White/Blue), requires a revealed Merfolk card to enter untapped.
    2. Secluded Den - Dimir (Blue/Black), requires a revealed Faerie card to enter untapped.
    3. Auntie's Hovel - Rakdos (Black/Red), requires a revealed Goblin card to enter untapped.
    4. Gilt-Leaf Palace - Golgari (Black/Green), requires a revealed Elf card to enter untapped.
    5. Ancient Ampitheater - Boros (Red/White), requires a revealed Giant card to enter untapped.
    6. Murmuring Bosk - Abzan (White/Black/Green), requires a revealed Treefolk card to enter untapped. Additionally it's a nonbasic Forest (which is how it taps for Green), and tapping it for White or Black also deals 1 damage to you.

Printings: The 5 tribal lands from Lorywn have never been reprinted, Murmuring Bosk was reprinted in From the Vault: Realms.

Filter Lands
Advantages: Enter untapped, tapping them for colored mana produces 2 mana in any combination of their two colors.
Disadvantages: Tapping for colored mana requires a colored mana activation.

The Filter lands are exceptional dual lands in a 2 color deck, and still good but not quite as reliable in a deck with 3 or more colors (due to the colored activation cost, which is a hybrid of their 2 colors); unlike the signet lands, they always tap for a colorless so you can play and actually use them turn 1, and the colored mana they produce is either XX, XY, or YY where X and Y are the two colors they tap for.

Cards in this cycle:
Printings: The allied duals in the cycle were only printed in Shadowmoor (except Graven Cairns, which was reprinted from Future Sight), and the enemy duals were only printed in Eventide.

Dual-land Manlands
Advantages: Can turn into a dude.
Disadvantages: Enter tapped, only printed for the allied color pairs.

This cycle from Worldwake are essentially "better guildgates" (unless you're also playing Mazes' End or something that cares about the Gate subtype), in that you can pay an activation cost and turn them into a variety of dudes with different abilities, depending on the land. Or just tap them for one of two colors of mana.

Cards in this cycle:
Printings: Only printed in Worldwake.

Check Lands (by Number)
Advantages: Can enter untapped.
Disadvantages: Past turn 3 probably won't enter untapped, only printed for the allied color pairs.

The check lands from Scars of Mirrodin are duals that check for a condition to see if they come in tapped or untapped; in this case that condition if whether or not you have two or fewer other lands when you play them. Strictly better than a guildgate.

Cards in this cycle:
Printings: Only printed in Scars of Mirrodin.

Check Lands (by Basic Land type)
Advantages: Can enter untapped.
Disadvantages: Require basic land types already in play to enter untapped.

This cycle of check lands (which is actually 2 cycles, one for the allied colors and one for the enemy colors) is sort of the inverse of the previous type, in that they're strictly worse than the type that cares about the number of lands on turn one, but strictly better later in the game as long as you have 1 of the applicable land types in play. Strictly better than guildgates.

Cards in this cycle:
Printings: The allied color dual cycle were first printed in M10 and reprinted in M11, M12, and M13, and Rootbound Crag was also reprinted in the Premium Deck: Slivers series. The enemy color duals were only printed in Innistrad, with the exception of Isolated Chapel, which was reprinted in the Modern Event Deck 2014.

Pain Lands
Advantages: Come into play untapped.
Disadvantages: Tapping for colored mana hurts you.

The Pain lands provide fixing at a price - pinging you for 1 point of damage each time you decide that you need to tap them for colored mana. Whether or not that price is worth it depends a lot on the type of deck you're looking to build; I personally don't run them, but I understand why other people do.

Cards in this cycle:
Printings: The allied color cycle was first printed in Ice Age and reprinted in Fifth Edition, Classic Sixth Edition, Seventh Edition, Ninth Edition, and Tenth Edition (which is the one to get if you want the modern frame and no white borders). The enemy color cycle was first printed in Apocalypse, and reprinted in Ninth Edition, Tenth Edition, and M15. Caves of Koilos was also reprinted in the Modern Event Deck 2014.

The "Strictly Worse" Pain Lands
Advantages: None.
Disadvantages: Come into play tapped, only printed for the enemy color pairs, same drawback as regular Pain Lands.

You really should not run these lands, as they're 100% worse in every possible way than a guild gate - you get set back a turn, AND get you to ping yourself whenever you need to tap them for colored mana. Because they are dual lands that were printed at Rare, I'm listing them here for completion's sake, but I would urge you NOT to use them. Seriously, these are awful (which makes their inclusion in Vintage Masters kind of funny, since outside of Draft ain't nobody using these in that format).

Cards in this cycle:
Printings: Only printed in Tempest (though included in Vintage Masters, but bumped down to Uncommon).

Depletion Counter Lands
Advantages: They come in untapped.
Disadvantages: They basically only tap every other turn, only printed for the allied color pairs.

Like the "strictly worse" pain lands, I also do not recommend you run these lands, but they are rare duals and I'm thorough, so here they are anyways. Barring some way to reliably remove counters from them, these lands essentially tap once and then don't untap again until 2 turns later, making them lands you can only tap for mana every other turn; that coupled with their color combinations (the allied colors, which have by far the most dual land options available) makes them pretty much unplayable, especially when you consider there are not one, but two other uncommon land cycles with the same drawback that also let you tap them for colorless without locking them down for an entire turn; don't run these lands folks, they're bad.

Cards in this cycle:
Printings: Only printed in Ice Age.


Thanks for the help. I just need to know what duals are worth running since I plan on build a deck of each colour combo, making fixing super important. The dual colour decks are the most important as I have a deck for each guild that I want to all get played together and I want to keep them all on a sort of even scale.
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Re: Commander/EDH Deck Talk

Postby Gildan_Bladeborn » 06 Oct 2014, 18:36

RadioshackRaider wrote:Thanks for the help. I just need to know what duals are worth running since I plan on build a deck of each colour combo, making fixing super important. The dual colour decks are the most important as I have a deck for each guild that I want to all get played together and I want to keep them all on a sort of even scale.
Ah, that sounds like... quite an undertaking. How many dual lands versus utility or basic lands per deck is a tricky thing to balance, and building that many decks will quickly get really expensive if you go with the best option every time, and depending on the composition of the deck you probably don't even really need to.

So in the interest of perhaps helping you save money when considering your mana-fixing, here's some more dual land cycles at Uncommon, whee!

Tainted Lands
Advantages: Enters untapped.
Disadvantages: Only tap for colorless by themselves, only printed for certain color combinations.

The 4 Tainted lands are a cycle from Torment that span each of the color pairs that include Black, and tap for colored mana if you also control a swamp. Not "strictly" better than a guildgate due to the swamp clause, but really quite good.

Cards in the cycle:
Proto-Guildgates
Advantages: They are basically guildgates.
Disadvantages: They are basically guildgates, only printed for the allied color pairs.

This cycle of lands from Invasion are, apart from having the subtype "gate", exactly the same as a guildgate in every functional way, which makes them perfectly fine.

Cards in this cycle:
Snow Dual Lands
Advantages: They are basically guildgates, have the Snow supertype which could be relevant (somehow).
Disadvantages: They're basically guildgates, only printed for the allied color pairs.

This cycle of dual lands from Coldsnap are also, functionality-wise, exactly the same as guildgates, except they also have the fringe benefit of counting as snow permanents and allowing for payments of "snow mana", which is probably not going to be relevant in most decks, but it could come up.

Cards in this cycle:
The Refuge Lands
Advantages: Just like guildgates, but you gain life when you play them.
Disadvantages: Same as guildgates, only printed for the allied color pairs.

The Refuge cycle of lands from Zendikar are just like guildgates, but better, because you gain 1 life when they enter the battlefield. Functionally reprinted in Khans of Tarkir, but at common and for all color pairs (so now you could run two, whee!).

Cards in this cycle:
Storage Lands
Advantages: Enter untapped, can produce any amount of colored mana in any combination of their colors.
Disadvantages: Slow and clunky method for tapping for colored mana, only printed for the allied color pairs.

The Storage land cycle from Time Spiral are interesting lands that tap for 1 colorless mana, or, by paying 1 colorless mana, you can tap and add a storage counter to them, then later pay 1 and tap to remove X counters and add X mana in any combination of the 2 colors they can produce. Essentially you can "bank" up mana from turn to turn, which is fine by itself but there are all sorts of ways to manipulate counters to your advantage, which can make these much better.

Cards in this cycle:

The Lands above this enormous block of text range from Fine to Quite Good, and I would recommend considering them for inclusion when constructing a Commander Deck. The lands BELOW... not so much.

The "Freeze" Lands, version 1.0
Advantages: They come in untapped.
Disadvantages: Tapping them for colored mana "freezes" them for a turn, only printed for the allied color pairs.

This cycle of lands from Tempest aren't the worst things ever printed, in that they come in untapped and you can either tap them for colorless or colored mana, but if you do tap them for colored mana, they don't untap during your next untap step, making them fixing you can only ever use for the purposes of fixing every other turn. They are not the greatest.

Cards in this cycle:
The "Freeze" Lands, version 2.0
Advantages: They come in untapped.
Disadvantages: Tapping them for colored mana "freezes" them for a turn, only printed for the allied color pairs.

Remember the "freeze lands" from Tempest? Well here are 5 lands from Champions of Kamigawa that are exactly the same (except printed in the Modern card frame). Also not the greatest (but not the straight worst).

Cards in this cycle:
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ElFuzzy
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Re: Commander/EDH Deck Talk

Postby ElFuzzy » 10 Oct 2014, 13:42

Alright so I've gotten the Enter the Infinite/Omniscience combo but I was tipped off earlier today that Past in flames is not gonna work. Does anyone know a way to get the cards from my graveyard back to hand? Tamiyo might be an option but I thought I might be able to work something out with Psychic Spiral.
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Re: Commander/EDH Deck Talk

Postby AdmiralMemo » 10 Oct 2014, 14:15

If you're using Psychic Spiral, Elixir of Immortality might help. It's library, not hand, but it's an option.
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Re: Commander/EDH Deck Talk

Postby Gildan_Bladeborn » 10 Oct 2014, 14:18

ElFuzzy wrote:Alright so I've gotten the Enter the Infinite/Omniscience combo but I was tipped off earlier today that Past in flames is not gonna work. Does anyone know a way to get the cards from my graveyard back to hand? Tamiyo might be an option but I thought I might be able to work something out with Psychic Spiral.
Who told you that Past in Flames wouldn't work with that combo?
    Step 1: Get Omniscience in play.
    Step 2: Cast Enter the Infinite, picking up your entire library.
    Step 3: Cast your entire library less one card (and Past in Flames), having made sure to include some way to generate near unlimited (or actually unlimited) mana within the deck itself, for free.
    Step 4: Use the infinite mana engine you included to actually cast all the cards in the graveyard for their normal casting costs.
    Step 5: Win, because if you did the above and don't then something is very wrong.

It's true that Past in Flames doesn't directly interact with the Omniscience/Enter the Infinite combo, that part is just to get your entire library's worth of instants and sorcery spells in the graveyard as fuel for Past in Flames.

An active Tamiyo emblem would of course completely obviate the need for Past in Flames in the first place, though if you miraculously don't just outright win by picking up and casting your entire library the first time you'd probably also want to include a few reshuffle effects like the ones already mentioned, or things like Tomorrow, Azami's Familiar that replace draw effects (it would really suck to have somebody respond to your picking up your library less one card by then making you lose via something silly like Divination). With Tomorrow in play, if you would draw a card and there's no cards in your library, you just don't do anything instead (it's also another way to filter what's on top of the deck to help prevent scrubbing out with Narset triggers).
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Re: Commander/EDH Deck Talk

Postby ElFuzzy » 10 Oct 2014, 15:08

Ah that didn't occur to me to just add infinite mana. I'm an idiot, but in Jeskai colors is the best way to do it with Pili-Pala and Grand Architect? I don't play Jeskai so I don't know a whole lot about mana tricks in this combination.
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Re: Commander/EDH Deck Talk

Postby Gildan_Bladeborn » 10 Oct 2014, 23:06

ElFuzzy wrote:Ah that didn't occur to me to just add infinite mana. I'm an idiot, but in Jeskai colors is the best way to do it with Pili-Pala and Grand Architect? I don't play Jeskai so I don't know a whole lot about mana tricks in this combination.

That's one of the better ways sure, as that's a 2-card infinite mana engine by itself that would be active and available immediately once put into play. Omniscience + Palinchron also equals infinite mana, as does Palinchron and a mana doubling effect (Mana Flare, Caged Sun, Gauntlet of Power, etc). You can do silly things with say... Cloudstone Curio and any 2 creatures with ETB effects, even if you're only staying at parity due to the current board position and not incrementally making more mana each recursion.

The point being, if you're going all in on the ridiculous Jeskai combos that Cam hypothesized in that video, I'd include at least a few possible alternate pieces so's you're not just totally hosed if somebody throws a wrench in plan A. On that topic, this is a card I would probably never ever put into a deck otherwise (because it's bad) but if you're playing Jeskai and planning on putting your entire library into the graveyard anyways, Archangel's Light would be a pretty funny insurance policy against being decked (allllll the lifegain).

Edit: Something just occurred to me a moment ago - if you put Inexorable Tide in the deck, you could drop Tamiyo as part of the ridiculous combo and immediately ult her the same turn thanks to all the spells you'd be casting. Solitary Confinement is also pretty bonkers with a Tamiyo emblem or Library of Leng in play, since you can draw via alternate means all the cards you damn well please and then get them right back into your hand or put 1 back on top your library each turn, while being immune to damage and shrouded.
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Re: Commander/EDH Deck Talk

Postby ElFuzzy » 11 Oct 2014, 07:10

So another win condition I thought of yesterday was putting Niv-Mizzet in the deck and maybe having him down before the combo goes off. Labortory Maniac seems like a good in-case-of-emgergancy-use-flash. I like the Inexorable Tide/Tamiyo. To be safe-ish I am also running Brain Freeze because I guess I can't just not mill someone when I have the opportunity. Also I prefer Psychic Spiral in place of Archangel's Light. Solitary Confinement seems hilarious.

I was looking around and the Grand Architect/Pili-Pala combo doesn't work the turn it's played because Pili doesn't have haste. However this is easily fixed by a number of cards, one of which being that haste guy from Journey which I have lying around.
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Re: Commander/EDH Deck Talk

Postby Conan_Edogawa » 11 Oct 2014, 18:17

I tweaked the Outlast Steakhouse a little.


Land (34)

1x Blossoming Sands
1x Cavern of Souls
1x Caves of Koilos
1x Command Tower
1x Evolving Wilds *F*
6x Forest
1x Gavony Township
1x Godless Shrine
1x Homeward Path
1x Jungle Hollow
1x Llanowar Wastes
1x Mutavault
1x Opal Palace
1x Overgrown Tomb
2x Plains
1x Razorverge Thicket
1x Reliquary Tower *F*
1x Sandsteppe Citadel
1x Scoured Barrens
1x Sunpetal Grove
1x Swamp
1x Temple Garden
1x Temple of Malady
1x Temple of Plenty *F*
1x Temple of Silence *F*
1x Terramorphic Expanse *F*
1x Windswept Heath
1x Woodland Cemetery

Planeswalker (6)

1x Ajani, Caller of the Pride
1x Garruk, Apex Predator
1x Garruk, Caller of Beasts
1x Garruk Relentless Flip
1x Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1x Vraska the Unseen

Creature (25)

1x Abzan Battle Priest
1x Abzan Falconer
1x Ainok Bond-Kin
1x Ajani's Pridemate *F*
1x Armament Corps
1x Birds of Paradise
1x Blood Baron of Vizkopa
1x Corpsejack Menace *F*
1x Courser of Kruphix
1x Desecration Demon
1x Enlisted Wurm *F*
1x Experiment One *F*
1x Genesis Hydra
1x Herald of Anafenza
1x High Sentinels of Arashin *F*
1x Kitchen Finks
1x Longshot Squad
1x Meadowboon
1x Mer-Ek Nightblade
1x Mikaeus, the Lunarch
1x Obzedat, Ghost Council
1x Sakura-Tribe Elder
1x Siege Rhino *F*
1x Tuskguard Captain
1x Wurmcoil Engine *F*

Artifact (8)

1x Batterskull
1x Behemoth Sledge *F*
1x Chromatic Lantern
1x Coercive Portal
1x Lightning Greaves
1x Sol Ring
1x Staff of Nin *F*
1x Sword of Fire and Ice

Sorcery (11)

1x Despise
1x Duneblast *F*
1x End Hostilities
1x Farseek *F*
1x Harmonize
1x In Garruk's Wake *F*
1x Incremental Growth
1x Kin-Tree Invocation
1x Obzedat's Aid
1x Spread the Sickness
1x Tempt with Discovery

Enchantment (8)

1x Abzan Ascendancy *F*
1x Awakening Zone
1x Cathars' Crusade
1x Hardened Scales
1x Mirari's Wake
1x Parallel Lives
1x Primal Vigor
1x Retribution of the Ancients

Instant (7)

1x Abzan Charm
1x Dragonscale Boon
1x Feat of Resistance
1x Hindervines
1x Ready / Willing
1x Silence the Believers
1x Utter End
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Re: Commander/EDH Deck Talk

Postby Antitonic » 12 Oct 2014, 05:37

I changed a few things around with my "Rise Of The Machines" colourless deck, and I'm open to input. Also open to potentially new and fun names.

Quick link: https://deckbox.org/sets/732893
Click to Expand
Artifact (34)

1x Ankh of Mishra
1x Astral Cornucopia
1x Basalt Monolith
1x Clock of Omens
1x Coldsteel Heart
1x Cursed Scroll
1x Darksteel Brute
1x Darksteel Forge
1x Darksteel Ingot
1x Darksteel Plate
1x Energy Chamber
1x Ensouled Scimitar
1x Grim Monolith
1x Guardian Idol
1x Haunted Plate Mail
1x Meteorite
1x Mishra's Groundbreaker
1x Phyrexian Processor
1x Power Conduit
1x Pristine Talisman
1x Quicksilver Amulet
1x Ratchet Bomb
1x Rusted Relic
1x Scroll Rack
1x Sculpting Steel
1x Sol Ring
1x Spine of Ish Sah
1x Thran Dynamo
1x Thran Foundry
1x Thran Turbine
1x Throne of Geth
1x Voltaic Key
1x Worn Powerstone
1x Xanthic Statue

Sorcery (1)

1x All Is Dust

Creature (34)

1x Alloy Myr
1x Alpha Myr
1x Arachnoid
1x Arcbound Bruiser
1x Arcbound Crusher
1x Arcbound Fiend
1x Arcbound Hybrid
1x Arcbound Lancer
1x Arcbound Overseer
1x Arcbound Ravager
1x Arcbound Reclaimer
1x Arcbound Slith
1x Arcbound Stinger
1x Arcbound Worker
1x Blightsteel Colossus
1x Brass Squire
1x Copper-Leaf Angel
1x Duplicant
1x Etched Champion
1x Karn, Silver Golem
1x Kuldotha Forgemaster
1x Metalworker
1x Myr Battlesphere
1x Myr Retriever
1x Palladium Myr
1x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Platinum Angel
1x Precursor Golem
1x Primal Clay
1x Sentinel
1x Shimmer Myr
1x Steel Hellkite
1x Steel Overseer
1x Workhorse

Land (31)

1x Archaeological Dig
1x Bant Panorama
1x Blasted Landscape
1x Buried Ruin
1x City of Brass
1x City of Shadows
1x Darksteel Citadel
1x Desert
1x Deserted Temple
1x Dread Statuary
1x Exotic Orchard
1x Ghost Town
1x Glimmervoid
1x High Market
1x Homeward Path
1x Mishra's Factory
1x Petrified Field
1x Phyrexia's Core
1x Quicksand
1x Radiant Fountain
1x Rupture Spire
1x Scorched Ruins
1x Strip Mine
1x Swarmyard
1x Thran Quarry
1x Tomb of the Spirit Dragon
1x Urza's Factory
1x Urza's Mine
1x Urza's Power Plant
1x Urza's Tower
1x Winding Canyons


EDIT: Apparently basic lands are a no-go with Karn, so some heavy editing was needed, due to 39 Plains. Updated, hopefully for good.
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Re: Commander/EDH Deck Talk

Postby Gildan_Bladeborn » 12 Oct 2014, 17:05

ElFuzzy wrote:I was looking around and the Grand Architect/Pili-Pala combo doesn't work the turn it's played because Pili doesn't have haste.

Yeah, for some reason I had it in my head that the "Untap" ability wasn't impacted by summoning sickness like a tap ability (since ordinarily you still can't tap them anyways to then use the untap abilities), but of course it works exactly like a normal tap ability, but in reverse.
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Re: Commander/EDH Deck Talk

Postby ElFuzzy » 12 Oct 2014, 20:07

I actually checked the comprehensive to make sure, that though crossed my mind too.
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Re: Commander/EDH Deck Talk

Postby MrPayneTrayne » 21 Oct 2014, 18:02

SO I play a lot of casual EDH, just wondering what cards I can take from my Tezzeret duel deck and put into my Eternal Bargain precon (Sharuum the Hegemon at the wheel) to make it a bit more busted.
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Re: Commander/EDH Deck Talk

Postby The E » 22 Oct 2014, 06:37

So I built myself a Narset deck out of cards I had laying around:

Code: Select all

//Commander
1 Narset, Enlightened Master

//Lands
1 Boros Guildgate
1 Wind-Scarred Crag
1 Mystic Monastery
1 Izzet Guildgate
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Forbidding Watchtower
1 Ghitu Encampment
1 Azorius Guildgate
1 Swiftwater Cliffs
1 Forgotten Cave
1 Boros Garrison
1 Tranquil Cove
7 Plains
11 Island
7 Mountain

//Spells
1 Homing Lightning
1 Moment of Heroism
1 Inferno Fist
1 Assemble the Legion
1 Cone of Flame
1 Sudden Storm
1 Jeskai Banner
1 Devouring Light
1 Plea for Guidance
1 Cancel
1 Avarice Amulet
1 Erase
1 Weave Fate
1 Dovescape
1 Treasure Cruise
1 Feat of Resistance
1 Ordeal of Thassa
1 Midnight Haunting
1 Lightning Diadem
1 Pull from the Deep
1 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
1 Barrage of Boulders
1 Raise the Alarm
1 Preordain
1 Fireshrieker
1 Skittering Invasion
1 Taigam's Scheming
1 Haunted Plate Mail
1 Spare from Evil
1 Ephara's Enlightenment
1 Pillar of Light
1 Serra's Blessing
1 Kill Shot
1 Crypsis
1 Siegecraft
1 Rise of Eagles
1 Take Up Arms
1 Intangible Virtue
1 Jeskai Ascendancy
1 Sanctified Charge
1 Boulderfall
1 Storm Herd
1 Quiet Contemplation
1 Aqueous Form
1 Gods Willing
1 Singing Bell Strike
1 Triplicate Spirits
1 Razia's Purification
1 Flurry of Horns
1 Divination
1 Jeskai Charm
1 Marked by Honor
1 Blastfire Bolt
1 Spectra Ward
1 Chronostutter
1 Suspension Field
1 Hammerhand
1 Blind Obedience
1 Encrust
1 Brawler's Plate
1 Mass Calcify
1 Master the Way


It's not exactly good yet, but soooo much fun to play.
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Re: Commander/EDH Deck Talk

Postby tamaness » 22 Oct 2014, 07:06

I'm working on a Narset all the turns and all the combat steps deck. I'm trying to get about 15-ish extra turn spells, and a few extra combat step spells, as well as a bunch of equipment and auras. It's also going to run armageddon, boom//bust, cataclysm, and the like. :twisted:
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Re: Commander/EDH Deck Talk

Postby MowDownJoe » 23 Oct 2014, 10:37

Like, I feel a good Narset deck NEEDS Sunforger. You can take advantage of it in so many ways, fetching U/R or W/U instants.
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