The Limited thread

A place to talk about standard, casual, limited and everything in between.
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JQuill
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Re: The Limited thread

Postby JQuill » 19 Apr 2015, 13:03

So an interesting play came up the other day in the finals of a draft I was in. I was playing U/B and my opponent was playing R/B. It was game 3 and I was at 5 life and my opponent was at 7. They had 2 vanilla 3/3s on the board (both tapped after attacking) and 1 card in hand that I knew was the 5/4 dash creature. My board was a 2/1 flyer, a 2/2 manifested land, and a 2/4 Drowner.

It's my turn and I can't attack for lethal, and I had missed some land drops so I only had 5 mana available. My hand is 3 cards, a Silumgar Butcher (3/3 exploit to give -3/-3), a Negate, and a Dutiful Attendent (1/2 that gets a creature back when it dies). The most relevant creature in my GY was probably a Brutal Hordechief.

So this is where the decision comes in. I basically saw 2 lines of play, the first is I attack with the 2/2 and 2/1, and then play Butcher and exploit the 2/2 to kill a 3/3. This plays around any dash creature (my opponent showed several of them in the previous games) other than something like Heelcutter or a removal spell. The second line is I attack with the 2/2 and 2/1 and then play the Attendant and hold up Negate. This loses to a dash (or haste) creature, but plays around any non-creature spell (my opponent did not show very many relevant ones in previous games) and also is a better line if my opponent just plays a non-dash creature as I can still attack for lethal.

I won't spoil what I did or what happened, just curious what line others might have taken given the situation.
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Re: The Limited thread

Postby Kapol » 19 Apr 2015, 13:20

Attacking with both and just putting down the 1/2 blocker leaves you dead, so that's not the right play I feel. You know they have the 5/4 in hand. So that means they dash it out and try to kill you. I feel like playing the butcher is the better play. But at the same time, that isn't that great for you to attack with both and then just leave one creature back to block. You can stop the 5/4 for one turn, and the other 3/3 is able to get through.

I think the right play would be to swing with only the 2/2 on the ground. Play the Butcher, sac the 2/2, kill a 3/3. If he dashed, trade 3/3s and chump his 5/4. That keeps you alive. You know you have blockers in hand. And he'll have to use his mana to dash again. If he doesn't Dash, then you still have the 2/1 flier to swing in. If he's shown Heelcutter, then no swings to be safe. If he hard cast anything, play the 1/2 and hold on to Negate for Sarkhan's Rage. Then, when he swings, trade the 3/3 and 1/2 for the 5/4 and bring back butcher. That should help you finish off your opponent.

Though the later part is all dependent on what's drawn. If you draw a land, it might be better to play the 2/4 and exploit the flier. But I don't know what's in your deck. So I don't know what answers could be drawn from that. Either way, I'd rather hold up negate for combat tricks or something similar.

My reasoning here is that we're not the beatdown. We'd rather hold back and stay alive than try to finish the opponent off.
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Re: The Limited thread

Postby JQuill » 19 Apr 2015, 13:58

Kapol wrote:Attacking with both and just putting down the 1/2 blocker leaves you dead, so that's not the right play I feel. You know they have the 5/4 in hand. So that means they dash it out and try to kill you. I feel like playing the butcher is the better play. But at the same time, that isn't that great for you to attack with both and then just leave one creature back to block. You can stop the 5/4 for one turn, and the other 3/3 is able to get through.

I think the right play would be to swing with only the 2/2 on the ground. Play the Butcher, sac the 2/2, kill a 3/3. If he dashed, trade 3/3s and chump his 5/4. That keeps you alive. You know you have blockers in hand. And he'll have to use his mana to dash again. If he doesn't Dash, then you still have the 2/1 flier to swing in. If he's shown Heelcutter, then no swings to be safe. If he hard cast anything, play the 1/2 and hold on to Negate for Sarkhan's Rage. Then, when he swings, trade the 3/3 and 1/2 for the 5/4 and bring back butcher. That should help you finish off your opponent.

Though the later part is all dependent on what's drawn. If you draw a land, it might be better to play the 2/4 and exploit the flier. But I don't know what's in your deck. So I don't know what answers could be drawn from that. Either way, I'd rather hold up negate for combat tricks or something similar.

My reasoning here is that we're not the beatdown. We'd rather hold back and stay alive than try to finish the opponent off.


You might have missed that I had a 2/4 on the board as well, so playing the 1/2 would still give me 2 blockers if I swung with the 2/2 and 2/1. I block a 3/3 with the 2/4 and just chump the 5/4 and only take 3.

Basically I didn't see any real way of beating Heelcutter without drawing something the next turn, so I played like they just weren't going to draw it.
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Re: The Limited thread

Postby Kapol » 20 Apr 2015, 00:15

...Right. For whatever reason, I read that as the 2/4 being in your hand. Derp. That's what I get for posting while tired. But yea, playing around Heelcutter unless you know they have it in the deck isn't the right play I feel.

In that case, I would play the 1/2 and swing with the two attackers. If the opponent attacks at all (barring Heelcutter or some kind of removal, etc), you win thanks to blocking with the 1/2 and getting the Hordechief back. 2 in the air and the drain effect kills the opponent. If the opponent doesn't attack, then they likely have enough blockers by playing the 5/4. Swing in the air, use the Attendant to exploit and kill a 3/3, and then finish them off next turn.

that said, I have no idea what I'm saying apparently. So don't listen to me. :p
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Re: The Limited thread

Postby AdmiralMemo » 30 Apr 2015, 18:33

I beat Graham in a DDF 8-4 with 25 seconds left on the clock. Retire champion! :D (I lost in Round 2.)

Edit: I finished watching Graham's side of the game... My head hurts so much from cackling like a madman! :D That was the most fun I've had in a long while.
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Re: The Limited thread

Postby MowDownJoe » 07 May 2015, 17:15

So, I've been doing Phantom Sealed events lately to practice for GP Atlantic City (the poor man's GP Vegas!). Also, because there really aren't any other non-scheduled sealed events. Anyway, I had a pool that was just dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb DUMB. I call it, "Who needs black or red for removal?"
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Easy 3-0. Was almost 6-0 in games, but that round 2 match was a bit rough in game 2. You think using Epic Confrontation as Lightning Helix thanks to your Lightform would be enough to put you over the top. Not quite. But game 3 had my opponent... shall we say, "scorched"?

[edit:] Another round fired after I posted this. So, I obviously imagined a game that wasn't there. Still went 3-0, but it was more of a 6-2 in games. That round 3 game 1... man, R/G can really dumb their hand and drop a lot of fat!
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Re: The Limited thread

Postby Kapol » 22 May 2015, 20:24

So apparently Modern Masters 2 is just Kamigawa. This is the deck I played tonight:

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1x Restless Apparition
1x Ghost of Council of Orzhova
2x Battlegrace Angel
3x Apostle's Blessing
1x Precursor Golem
1x Mirror Entity
2x Devouring Greed
1x Moonlit Strider
2x Waxmane Baku
2x Thief of Hope
1x Hikari, Twilight Guardian
2x Scuttling Death (I had 4 available)
1x Plagued Rusalka
1x Kami of Ancient Law
1x Death Denied
1x Bone Splinters
9x Plains
8x Swamp


out of those rares, four of them were passed to me. Ended up going 4-0 with the deck. Thief of Hope put in a lot of work, and Devouring Greed was a great finisher.
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Re: The Limited thread

Postby Lord Hosk » 27 May 2015, 18:35

So I went 0-4 with two game wins with this deck tonight at my paper draft. I dont even know what happened.

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Re: The Limited thread

Postby AdmiralMemo » 28 May 2015, 13:49

First Modern Masters 2015 - Click to Expand
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Round 1: Absolutely mopped the floor with Cam.

Round 2: Skin of the teeth. In Game 3, it was down to less than a minute on both clocks, both topdecking, and board state of kill me now or be killed next turn. I didn't draw the removal for Apocalypse Hydra or 2 Rusted Relics, so I died.

Round 3: Pretty close, but Mirror Entity was the champ of the day.

Not bad for a 2-1. :) I'm just sad I don't keep the cards. 6 foils plus some nice mythics/rares. :(
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Re: The Limited thread

Postby JQuill » 28 May 2015, 18:48

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First MMA15 draft and it went fairly well, minus the opening any value. Went 2-0 and the split the finals with this. The cheap removal worked very well in round 1 against a RB Bloodthirst deck, taking out the early creatures and stopping or at least slowing the Bloodthirst chain. In round 2 I faced a very grindy UB deck, and Banefire was the all-star, dealing 14 damage to my opponent in game 1 and the final 5 in game 3.

I did have an interesting P1P1 between a Kozilek and the Selesyna Guildmage, of course I took the latter which I think was the correct pick, even if it wasn't quite as fun. It might have been a different story if Kozilek was more than just a few tickets online.
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Re: The Limited thread

Postby AdmiralMemo » 01 Jun 2015, 15:05

Here's an idea I had, but I know I wouldn't be able to pull it off...

Multi-lingual draft. Find a block that all the people are very familiar with. Then, find as many packs in as many different languages as possible (English, French, Spanish, German, Chinese, Japanese, etc.). Then draft it. You can have fun and also it would assist you in learning other languages. :)
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Re: The Limited thread

Postby Lord Hosk » 05 Jun 2015, 02:55

I lost to some horrible mana flood in game three of round one and round three of a KTK KTK Fate draft, but I guess I cant be upset with the deck. I Round one game three I had 15 land in play, round three game three I drew five straight land with my opponent on 1 life on a board stall of 4 creatures each.

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The temporal trespass was pick two pack one the person next to me took a uncommon. The Ugins Nexus was pick three pack three... two people passed a 30 ticket card in a 6-2-2-2 that cost roughly 6 tickets to enter.
Beware Bering Crystal Bears, Bearing Crystals. (Especially if the crystals they are bearing are, themselves, Bering Crystal Bears.) -Old, Stupid Proverb

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Re: The Limited thread

Postby MowDownJoe » 11 Jun 2015, 10:29

Wow. 3-0 with the Smokebraider special, even though watching the draft, it was clear that Affinity was also a WIDE OPEN option.

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The number of games that I won out of nowhere because I had out Smokebraider + Soulbright Flamekin + Inner-Flame Igniter + enough lands was actually kind of ridiculous. At the same time, the deck was more than capable of just slowly grinding down my opponents. Could've used a Mulldrifter, but oh well. Took down 2 different G/W token decks and a B/R bloodthirst. Sadly, not an 8-4, but I'm still happy with my success.
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Re: The Limited thread

Postby Atifexe » 14 Jun 2015, 13:23

Hey folks, I'm currently in the queue for the MTGO DTK-FRF Sealed Daily that fires in about 2 hours and 30 minutes, at 5 pm local time. I'd love to see some friendly Runner names in the list when it starts, so if you're up for it, please hop in!

Edit to add: I didn't recognize any names, but there were 30 people total in the event and I only played against three, so that's not too surprising. I... well, didn't fair too well. My record is 2-2, but it's really 1-2-Bye. Still, a draft set for my troubles, and I get to keep the cards I opened.

My primary deck was white/blue, splashing black for Dragonlord Silumgar (who was content to never be seen). My secondary deck, built from the same pool because I discovered you can save versions of a deck and load them during sideboarding, was a red/black dash deck. Rather aggressive, but with no major bombs.

Rebound was my all-star mechanic, appearing on Ojutai's Breath, Void Squall, and Ojutai's Summons. Without those three cards, I wouldn't have won the one round I did.

Overall, I feel disappointed with myself. I feel like I really need to work on something, probably card valuation and deck composition, but I'm having a hard time determining for certain if that's the case or if I was just having some bad luck in crucial moments. Next time I'll actually take screenshots of my pool and my deck and ask for feedback.
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Re: The Limited thread

Postby Duckay » 15 Jun 2015, 01:35

Lord Hosk wrote:The temporal trespass was pick two pack one the person next to me took a uncommon. The Ugins Nexus was pick three pack three... two people passed a 30 ticket card in a 6-2-2-2 that cost roughly 6 tickets to enter.


Have you ever had any trouble selling foils? It's always an uphill battle for me and I'm wondering if there's a trick to it, like certain bots that are good for it or something.
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Re: The Limited thread

Postby Lord Hosk » 15 Jun 2015, 08:05

I used to use the MTGOAcademy bots before I have never had any trouble with them buying, but they never seem to have packs anymore so I have just stopped using them.

I have had no trouble at all with the goatbot net since I started using them. They normally have good deals on tickets too like 95 cents US for a ticket but right now they seem low.

The economy on MTGO is really strange right now. The increase in price for redemption combined with the memory issues have made foils less desirable.

If you look up the prices of foils compared to normal on any set the normal cards are more expensive than the foils. The top few cards will be more valuable in foil like planeswalkers or standard/modern bombs but for the most part the non-foil cards are higher priced.
Beware Bering Crystal Bears, Bearing Crystals. (Especially if the crystals they are bearing are, themselves, Bering Crystal Bears.) -Old, Stupid Proverb

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Re: The Limited thread

Postby AdmiralMemo » 15 Jun 2015, 17:07

GoatBots stopped buying more than like 1 or 2 cards from me lately, and MtGOA bots pick up more. Not sure what's up with that.
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Re: The Limited thread

Postby Duckay » 15 Jun 2015, 18:46

The bots I usually prefer to use often won't buy foils. I guess I should check out GoatBots, thanks.

In other news, I started using RareDraft.com to track my drafts so I can look over them and learn from what I've done. I was very happy with this draft until I looked over it and now I am feeling shame for some of my picks. It proves that the use of RareDraft as a learning tool is valid and brings to light one of my major problems in drafting: sometimes I just plain don't pay enough attention.

ETA: Any feedback on the linked draft would be appreciated.
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Re: The Limited thread

Postby steric hindrance » 15 Jun 2015, 19:39

In your draft, I think you made some misevaluations that led to missing that black and white were open. Some of my notes:

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P1P3: Choosing Atarka Efreet over Hand of Silumgar and Pacifism. The Efreet is very good, but isn't on the power level of premium removal (like Pacifism) or the cheap deathtoucher. The Efreet can be a little clunky to cast and flip, and in general picking the cheaper card for a similar effect (removal) is a valuable heuristic.

P1P5: I'd prefer to stay on-color with the Krotiq or the Circle of Elders than pick the Herald, which loses value as the game goes long.

P1P6: Seeing the Foul Renewal seems to be a signal that black might open. I'd be willing to splash for it even if it wasn't, as it can be cast later in the game anyway for value.

P1P8: Butcher's Glee has been an overperformer for me, as it can help stabilize you from behind -- a rare trait among combat tricks -- given that you can recoup life lost from an aggressive start while removing one of their attackers. It is probably better than what is essentially a piker.

P2P2 & P3: Seeing Pacifisms here implies that white is not being drafted to our left. I'd take these over the Atarka Efreet and Epic Confrontation in picks 2 and 3 and possibly splash for them.

P2P5: Twin Bolt is probably better than the Hardened Berserker, as it's solid removal, while the Berserker is usually going to be no more than a vanilla 3/2. There's also a Hand of Silumgar; black is probably not being drafted to our left either.

P2P6: Given that we're seeing Hand of Silumgar here again, I'm deducing that black is not being heavily drafted to our right nor our left.

P2P7: I'd take the Krotiq over the Artillerist. There's not a lot of +1/+1 counter synergy to make it good, and it's unfortunately a bit of a nonbo with the number of Epic Confrontations in our pool.

P3P5: Arcbond over the Smoldering Efreet. There are times in which Arcbond will simply dome out your opponent for the win, and times in which you can use it as a Wrath. It's not necessarily the easiest card to set up, but it has a high power level. The Smoldering Efreet might even wheel, as only the most aggressive of red decks will want it.

I also noticed that there were several playable white cards being passed in the second half of the Fate pack, like Sandsteppe Outcast and Wandering Champion. Harsh Sustenance also wheeled. I feel like there was a missed opportunity to draft a B/W or Abzan deck.
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Re: The Limited thread

Postby BlueChloroplast » 23 Jun 2015, 21:18

I went 3-0 (won all 3 matches) in the Dragons-Dragons-Fate Magic the Gathering draft I did tonight with a blue/white prowess deck. I called it "Surprisingly Aggressive" as I attacked a lot; the 3 Elusive Spellfists I had really helped with that.
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Re: The Limited thread

Postby MowDownJoe » 28 Jun 2015, 13:21

I love Modern Masters draft. Been doing really well with it, and will be sad when it's gone. Drafted the nuttiest R/B aggro deck recently:
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I was surprised to see a P2P5 Burst Lightning and a P3P12(!) Daggerclaw Imp. No, seriously. Why? Well, judging by my 3 matches, everyone went W/U Affinity. All my matches were against Affinity, which makes the Smash to Smithereens I passed extra sad. Oh, well.
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Re: The Limited thread

Postby AdmiralMemo » 02 Jul 2015, 18:42

First time going into the finals in an 8-4 today. I almost took the tournament down, as it was to the point of kill or die. I ended up dying, due to DTK Atarka. Anyway, still, 4 packs. More than I've ever won before. I must be learning something about drafting at least. :)

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Re: The Limited thread

Postby ZePancakes » 03 Jul 2015, 03:29

So mono-red in MM2 is definitely a thing in MM2 drafting. Ran the 8-4 gauntlet with this brew and came out on top! Best feeling was using Kiki-Jiki to pop another copy of Thunderblust to smack for 14. That and having Spikeshot shoot for 5 with one Sunforger equipped.

Had to rebuild through collection as it hadn't saved the deck but here is the mainboard.

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Oh-h-h-h SNAP... Concede.

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Re: The Limited thread

Postby Omega Lairon » 04 Jul 2015, 20:19

This topic seems way more active than the regular fandraft one... and since it's technically still on topic...

Cards ahoy!
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Went 2-1 in what I described at one point as "running mono-heart attack". Really excellent games across the board.

Round 1: drigien
Started out running, with some heavy aggression from the likes of Mardu Scout and Sprinting Warbrute proving too much and too fast. Sadly, being stuck on 2 mana for most of the match probably didn't help my opponent so much. Game 2 was a lot closer and saw a particularly nasty combo in the form of Anafenza (DTK) and Whisperwood Elemental, drowning me in a sea of end-of-turn 3/3 manifests. Game 3 got even more intense, as I was a little stalled on land in the face of an ominous and seriously p'd off dragon taking off half my health. I dealt with it... it came back... but by that point I had played Citadel Siege, and was able to slowly gain ground. Eventually, I had enough strength to run in and end it.

Round 2: Maddrius
I started out with what I thought was a totally sweet 6 card hand, loaded with early attacking options... and then my opponent played an island. I did manage to field an impressive attacking force, but those blue spells (as they tend to do) had all the right counters and bounces to dominate my troops. A handful of unanswerable air threats were enough to rush in and secure defeat. At some point, game 2 happened... it was very abrupt, with my red aggression doing what it does best to end it before any air support could be mobilized. The highlight of the day was easily in the bottom of the 3rd game. I started off with sorta tricky mana, off red, but abale to curve into Citadel Siege again. From there, it was a slow and steady process to get the troops assembled to hold the line. The air was once again clogged with bad guys, and I had precious few options to take them out. Finally, it all came down to one final desperate attack - all in, with the fate of the game depending on how the blocks shaped up. Fearing trample shenanigans, my opponent piled up on my Warbrute. Luckily for me though, I had enough small guys running in unopposed that, with support from War Flare, were strong enough to take the victory.

Round 3: Swagbats
And so it came down to this, the finals match against the man, the myth, the legend himself. One would claim the glory of the 3-0, the other, doomed to eternal scrubbitude. So naturally, it all went butts-up for me in short order. I had dashers, he had removal, and also the backing of 2 nasty fliers. Game 2 started off with a highly sketchy mull to 5... I had Citadel Siege in hand, but the question was if I could survive long enough to cast it. Fortunately, I managed to draw exceptionally well, and was able to play out the Siege and both Warbrutes at some point. Sadly, even this proved to be insufficient, and he was able to ride out the storm front and come back with numbers I couldn't match. End scene.

Still, good times were had by all, and 2-1 is always an excellent result. I look forward to more of the same (or better) in the future... but maybe with a bit less clenching and breath-holding.
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Re: The Limited thread

Postby Duckay » 07 Jul 2015, 20:58

For my final MM15 draft, I decided to go big or go home.

You can play 2 Eldrazi and a Pelakka Wurm in draft, right?

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