The Limited thread

A place to talk about standard, casual, limited and everything in between.
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MowDownJoe
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Re: The Limited thread

Postby MowDownJoe » 08 Jul 2015, 19:41

You know how the story goes that the deck you have to watch out for in most cube drafts is the Mono-Red deck, and that only a complete monster would draft such a deck?

I am that complete monster.

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3-0 with this isn't impressive, but match 2 was at least interesting. He was playing what seemed like a mono-black Stax deck, but I did see him discard an Ashiok and a Shadowmage Infiltrator in a game or two so he must've had at least a blue splash. Game 1 showed me getting crushed, as I didn't keep a super-aggressive hand (in spite of T1 Taylor Swiftspear). Turns out, T3 Kicked Gatekeeper of Malakir into T4 Braids, Cabal Minion does a good job throwing off my aggro. Especially when I was hoping to use Sarkhan to smash in. Game 2 is more what I expected. I drop T1 Taylor and swing. He drops T1 Maze of Ith. I Wasteland the Maze on T2 and drop Zurgo. Then Lavamancer comes down and I start throwing fire at his face and his guys. Then came game 3. And game 3 goes long. He does a good job slowing me down but can't find a way to kill me. Eventually, between Swords of Feast and Famine and Liliana and a bunch of other stuff, we both end up flooding and just top decking land for several turns. Until I top deck and hard cast Greater Gargadon. He's been racing with a Lifebane Zombie and just dropped a Geralf's Messenger, so his swing with the Lifebane and Messenger just has Messenger get eaten by Gargs. Messenger un-dies, drains me down to 7. I can swing for 11 thanks to my Gargadon and my sword, but then I die on the crackback. I draw for turn. It's Taylor. Equip, watch Gargs get Disfigured in response for some reason, swing. Play Taylor second main and equip. He now can't get me for lethal. Whale effin' plaid.

Match 1 and 3 weren't as interesting. Match 1 was against some kind of durdly Sultai good stuff that just got burned out. Match 3 was against U/G ramp that picked up some amount of Moxen. (I saw at least a Pearl.) Match 3 had me bolting birds for a fair bit, so yeah... nothing as interesting at match 2.
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Re: The Limited thread

Postby Duckay » 09 Jul 2015, 17:38

Can confirm, I am a scumbag and I always draft mono-red in cube.

My first experience with this cube didn't go that well, though. I went 2-1, losing to Tinker combo.
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Re: The Limited thread

Postby Duckay » 14 Jul 2015, 03:39

Just bumping this thread to reiterate: I love cube so much. The one time I don't draft mono-red, though, my opponent goes turn 1 Black Lotus into a Hero of Oxid Ridge. It doesn't get much more ridiculous than that. I still managed to beat that opponent 2-1 with ramp-into-Craterhoof, so that's a thing at least.

(ETA: Ended up 3-0ing that draft with mono green ramp. CUBE.)
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Re: The Limited thread

Postby fantôme » 20 Jul 2015, 14:22

Origins seems like a really tightly-packed set in terms of drafting particular two-colour archetypes, I've seen a lot of people force a gameplan from their first pick - and end up building really solid and interesting decks. But at the same time there is also a lot of cross-over possible with the archetypes. I'm really enjoying it.

Also I just went undefeated with B/R sacrifice-y stuff, after first picking Nantuko Husk. Yay.
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Re: The Limited thread

Postby the_lone_bard » 24 Jul 2015, 19:57

I went 3-1 last night at FNM. Lost the last match to the thopter deck, same guy I lose to 100% of the time. I swear he just mulligans until he has the perfect opening hand and somehow never loses off of that. But, game 1, cool guy I know is all acting normal. I killed his will to live by the end of game 1. Game 2 he ground out a win, game 3 he left crushed.
round 2, game 1, oh jesus my face, stop kicking my face in! Game 2, Gideons Phalanx is fun. Was getting tight, ground him down to 2, throw my knights into his wurm, throw them again, and again, just throwing away a knight a turn. Top deck... My Meteor. Game 3, NOFUNALLOWED. Handily prevent him from playing magic against me, he was playing it, just not against me.
Round 3, "Oh god no I don't want to play that." 2-0, anything he did was handily responded to with "Ok, and now it sits there and does nothing."
Round 4, got my head kicked in. Artifact thopter rare on turn 2 both games, haste red thopter guy turn 3, thopter producers everywhere. Generally didn't have the chance to really do anything, just infinite 1/1 flyers with haste everywhere.

So, how did I just stop my opponents from really doing anything? Well here's my list.
1x Nantuko husk.
2x Weight of the underdowld.
2x Grasp of the heiromancer (Started at 3.)
2x Undead servant
2x Akroan Jailer.
1x Knight of pilgrims road.
1x Swift Reckoning.
1x FOIL Yoked Ox.
1x Auramancer.
1x Meteorite.
1x Knightly Valor.
1x Mantle of webs.
1x Reave Soul.
1x Blood-Cursed Knight.
1x Fetid imp.
1x Citadel Castellan.
1x Sentinel of the eternal watch.
1x Blightcaster.
1x Gideons Phalanx.


Just... So much damn fun. It started as the aura deck, but I realized a few picks into pack 2, I wasn't getting the second blightcasters or auramancers, so I moved into heavy control, picking up 4 akroan jailers, 5 gifts and some ok green bombs since I was worried at that point by my lack of black. Black came back in very limited quantity in pack 3, but all of it was great quality, so I wound up shoving in the two nice green cards that synergised well just because I can, and because I've learned to run a meteor no matter what, your opponent will occasionally find a way to give you a damn activation for red mana or something, or you'll be taxed, or just needa ping them or something else for 2... And I won a game off of that ping when it otherwise would have been a loss since I had no other way to deal with his wurm, and he was gonna sit there and build up a board state till he could just start picking through with it.
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Re: The Limited thread

Postby gcninja » 24 Jul 2015, 21:57

Second draft only, first time origins. I knew literally ONES of card. First pack? Day's Undoing. It's a mythic, guess I'm playing blue. Don't do blue, like jund, powerful yet cunning. Still, let's do it.

Get pack after pack, instead of my first draft of grabbing whatever looked good I stayed with two colors, black and blue. Almost went red but naw figure they're nice together.

By the end, I had my deck:
2x Bounded Construct
Maritime Guard
Disperse
Stratus Walk
2x Malakir Cullblade
Reave Soul
Fetid Imp
Day's Undoing
Sphinx's Tutelage
Watercourser
Eyeblight Assassin
DRead the Bones
Nantuko Husk
Deadbridge shaman
Separatists Voidmage
Aspiring Aeronaut
Nightsnare
Thopter Spy Network
Whirler Rogue
Unholy Hunger
Possessed Skaab

The rest 9/8 blue black lands

I... went 1-3. I know it was more user erro than anything. Things I loved though:
Thopters, thopters EVERYWHERE and their usefulness.
Need to sac for Fetip Imp? Thopter
Need an artifact for the Spy network? thopter
Wanna over run your opponents 6/4 red? THOPTER ATTACK

What I didn't like:
they're expensive and meek, but I guess like goblins when it's 50 thopters, your arguments are invalid

My SECOND favorite thing I attempted and succeed twice was the sphinx and Day's undoing combo. Was so much fun. Nice forty card deck. WOULD BE A SHAME IF HALF OF DISAPPEARED.

All in all, was fun night save for the guy who kept popping out and getting a beer in him between rounds and becominga bit more belligerent each time.
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Re: The Limited thread

Postby Kapol » 25 Jul 2015, 01:02

Any tips for Team Sealed events? In terms of deckbuilding and playing. I know it plays similar to 2HG in terms of being able to communicate with team members, though each individual is still playing a match.
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Re: The Limited thread

Postby Duckay » 25 Jul 2015, 02:22

Before the event, elect one person the official tiebreaker. That way when you inevitably have a dispute during deckbuilding ("Put that card in this deck!" "No, that card sucks!" "No way, it's good!"), instead of getting caught up in who's right and wasting time so you have to rush the rest of deckbuilding (possibly making worse errors), you resolve it quickly.

During deckbuilding, don't allocate decks to players until you have finished building decks. That spares the attachment to decks, and the "but I want that card in my deck, not yours" arguments.

The 3 decks will probably not come out to being equal in power level. Try to honestly assess among yourselves who the best player is, and if there's a deck that emerges that is substantially weaker than the other two, give that deck to the best player. That helps balance out any problems from the deck being weaker and puts less pressure on the other two decks to win every game.
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Re: The Limited thread

Postby fantôme » 25 Jul 2015, 03:58

gcninja wrote:Day's Undoing & Sphinx's Tutelage


I could be wrong, but sadly I don't think this actually works - the Undoing ends the turn before the Tutelage triggers get to go off.
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Re: The Limited thread

Postby gcninja » 25 Jul 2015, 06:39

fantôme wrote:
gcninja wrote:Day's Undoing & Sphinx's Tutelage


I could be wrong, but sadly I don't think this actually works - the Undoing ends the turn before the Tutelage triggers get to go off.

indeed, apparently a NEW ruling states:
713.1a If there are any triggered abilities that triggered before this process began but haven’t been put onto the stack yet, those abilities cease to exist. They won’t be put onto the stack. This rule does not apply to abilities that trigger during this process (see rule 713.2).

And it wouldn't work. But I don't feel too bad because I played with a bunch of people knowing what they're doing, even competitive people and nobody said a thing. Not that this card helped, was just fun
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Re: The Limited thread

Postby Kapol » 26 Jul 2015, 19:24

Duckay wrote:Before the event, elect one person the official tiebreaker. That way when you inevitably have a dispute during deckbuilding ("Put that card in this deck!" "No, that card sucks!" "No way, it's good!"), instead of getting caught up in who's right and wasting time so you have to rush the rest of deckbuilding (possibly making worse errors), you resolve it quickly.

During deckbuilding, don't allocate decks to players until you have finished building decks. That spares the attachment to decks, and the "but I want that card in my deck, not yours" arguments.

The 3 decks will probably not come out to being equal in power level. Try to honestly assess among yourselves who the best player is, and if there's a deck that emerges that is substantially weaker than the other two, give that deck to the best player. That helps balance out any problems from the deck being weaker and puts less pressure on the other two decks to win every game.


The first issue has (hopefully) already been accounted for. I've been designated the 'team leader' and primary deck-builder (not thrilled to be under the pressure that'll bring during the event, but it's an honor none the less). So I'll be acting as the tie-breaker for issues like that. I just need to make sure I don't fall for the trap of under-valuing cards, or over-valuing/forcing cards I like.

For the second point, what's the best way to avoid that? We're set up in a way that we're planning on getting the base of each deck set up individually, then working on the three one by one. Based on the testing we've done so far, my teammates seem to assume they'll be playing with the deck they're working on. Is it better to try making the decks one by one to help avoid that and put the focus on each individual deck? My main concern with that is largely time, since it's 60 minutes to sort, build, register, and sleeve. Plus, I'm hoping having the decks laid out together will allow the chance to see if any deck doesn't work quite right, and moving colors around would improve them.

The power level thing is something that's also come up. The initial impression was the weakest deck should be piloted by the best player. But, after thinking about it, my concern is that we'll be underutilizing stronger decks. I'm also trying to take into consideration each player's prefered playstyle. Is it better to have the aggro player piloting a slower deck if it's stronger? Or are they actually the better pilot for that deck?

Most of these questions are ones I'm not sure anyone has the answers to. Some of them entirely depend on my teammates. It's just been me trying to figure as much out as I can before the event.
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Re: The Limited thread

Postby Duckay » 26 Jul 2015, 19:33

Kapol wrote:The first issue has (hopefully) already been accounted for. I've been designated the 'team leader' and primary deck-builder (not thrilled to be under the pressure that'll bring during the event, but it's an honor none the less). So I'll be acting as the tie-breaker for issues like that. I just need to make sure I don't fall for the trap of under-valuing cards, or over-valuing/forcing cards I like.


Excellent, that's a good start. Now, remember: that doesn't mean don't listen to your teammates. Just don't let it get into an argument, either. Listen to what they have to say and then make a decision, don't discuss it forever. Time is of the essence.

Kapol wrote:For the second point, what's the best way to avoid that? We're set up in a way that we're planning on getting the base of each deck set up individually, then working on the three one by one. Based on the testing we've done so far, my teammates seem to assume they'll be playing with the deck they're working on. Is it better to try making the decks one by one to help avoid that and put the focus on each individual deck? My main concern with that is largely time, since it's 60 minutes to sort, build, register, and sleeve. Plus, I'm hoping having the decks laid out together will allow the chance to see if any deck doesn't work quite right, and moving colors around would improve them.


No, it is better to build the three decks side by side so you can compare them directly. I wouldn't advise doing them one at a time. But maybe just agree clearly that you're not necessarily going to play the deck that you laid out. Maybe make it more of a discussion so no one is wholly working with just one deck?

Kapol wrote:The power level thing is something that's also come up. The initial impression was the weakest deck should be piloted by the best player. But, after thinking about it, my concern is that we'll be underutilizing stronger decks. I'm also trying to take into consideration each player's prefered playstyle. Is it better to have the aggro player piloting a slower deck if it's stronger? Or are they actually the better pilot for that deck?


Remember that each round is essentially a best of three between the decks. If you give the strongest player the strongest deck and try to just scrape a win with either of the other two decks, that's putting a lot of pressure on that player to win every round. You'll want to balance it out so that no one feels undue pressure and each deck has a closer to equal chance to win.

Each person's preferred playstyle is definitely relevant, though. If someone is maybe an 8 with an aggro deck but a 5 with a control deck, it's not best to give them a weak control deck because on average they're a good player. Take into account each person's preferred playstyle and skills, certainly.


Hope that helps! I'm not exactly the world's biggest expert on team sealed but I hope that advice helps some anyway.
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Re: The Limited thread

Postby phlip » 26 Jul 2015, 20:50

There was a Limited Resources episode about team limited a while back... check that out.

A lot of it is very similar to what Duckay's suggesting, but there's some other useful things in there too. I think. It's been a while since I listened to it.
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Re: The Limited thread

Postby SixFootTurkey » 28 Jul 2015, 01:12

Another thing to keep in mind, is that it's not just about the power level of the decks. If the members of your group have different tendencies, you may want to lean towards giving the gal who always plays mono red the aggressive R/W deck, while leaving the more mid-range favoring guy to get the mid-range deck. Also, I would probably go with 'trickier win conditions' rather than 'weaker deck'; this could be a weaker deck that runs some oddball wincons, or it could just be a more controlling deck that has a lot of choices to be made all game.
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Re: The Limited thread

Postby Kapol » 02 Aug 2015, 15:39

Sorry for the delay in responses. I do appreciate the tips. I just forgot I hadn't commented.

phlip wrote:There was a Limited Resources episode about team limited a while back... check that out.

A lot of it is very similar to what Duckay's suggesting, but there's some other useful things in there too. I think. It's been a while since I listened to it.


Thanks. I gave it a listen. Most of it is similar to what's been mentioned. Though the idea of knowing when to pick your battles is something I hadn't considered. It's better to let the person play the 23'rd card they want if it doesn't significantly affect the deck than to spend precious time arguing (or even just discussing) it. I'll have to give it another listen to catch anything I might have missed.

SixFootTurkey wrote:Another thing to keep in mind, is that it's not just about the power level of the decks. If the members of your group have different tendencies, you may want to lean towards giving the gal who always plays mono red the aggressive R/W deck, while leaving the more mid-range favoring guy to get the mid-range deck. Also, I would probably go with 'trickier win conditions' rather than 'weaker deck'; this could be a weaker deck that runs some oddball wincons, or it could just be a more controlling deck that has a lot of choices to be made all game.


Right. It's better to give someone a deck they know how to play than stick them with a powerful deck with a weird wincon. Now that you mention it, that's something that was also mentioned in the LR episode. The experienced player isn't necessarily better off with the 'weaker deck' as much as the trickier deck to pilot. Which makes sense.

Duckay wrote:
Excellent, that's a good start. Now, remember: that doesn't mean don't listen to your teammates. Just don't let it get into an argument, either. Listen to what they have to say and then make a decision, don't discuss it forever. Time is of the essence.


Right. 60 minutes (from what I've read) to sort, build, and register, not to mention hopefully sleeve. Listen to opinions, but be ready to make a judgement call rather than try to spend a bunch of time discussing.


No, it is better to build the three decks side by side so you can compare them directly. I wouldn't advise doing them one at a time. But maybe just agree clearly that you're not necessarily going to play the deck that you laid out. Maybe make it more of a discussion so no one is wholly working with just one deck?


That might work. I just need to mention that to the people I'm playing with and set that down as one of the rules.

Remember that each round is essentially a best of three between the decks. If you give the strongest player the strongest deck and try to just scrape a win with either of the other two decks, that's putting a lot of pressure on that player to win every round. You'll want to balance it out so that no one feels undue pressure and each deck has a closer to equal chance to win.

Each person's preferred playstyle is definitely relevant, though. If someone is maybe an 8 with an aggro deck but a 5 with a control deck, it's not best to give them a weak control deck because on average they're a good player. Take into account each person's preferred playstyle and skills, certainly.


Hope that helps! I'm not exactly the world's biggest expert on team sealed but I hope that advice helps some anyway.


It really does help, thanks. More than anything, it's the discussion with others that helps me figure out where my own strengths and weaknesses lie for something like this
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Re: The Limited thread

Postby AdmiralMemo » 12 Aug 2015, 12:51

So... why was I not at the FanDraft this week? Because I was at a convention. At this convention, I played a couple of drafts of Magic. On Saturday, I ended up in an Origins draft.
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Round 1 was against a guy with a deck I don't even remember. I don't remember much other than the fact that he got stomped, 2-0. Round 2 was against a 12-year-old girl who I've played against before. She's good at Magic, but she is totally a Timmy. For example, she played a 50-card Blue/Green deck against me. She's a good player, but she needs to learn a few things still. She could've won if she hadn't made a misplay. I had a Boggart Brute with an equipped Sigil of Valor. I'd repeatedly been pumping out Thopter tokens, so the Brute was just punching face by either killing defenders or just getting straight in for damage. Then, Turn 7 or 8, I got down my Mage-Ring Responder. The following turn, she got down a Caustic Caterpillar, which she immediately cracked to get rid of my Sigil. I gave her a chance to make sure that's what she wanted to do and she said yes. I was like, OK, and then proceeded to just eat defenders and swing in for lethal. Her dad was watching us play and the look on his face was "She needs to learn this on her own" when she cracked the Caterpillar on the Sigil. Anyway, that went 2-0 for me. Final round went 0-2 for me, facing off against a very good White/Black enchantment deck. Sigil of the Empty Throne: a bit of a beating, especially when paired with Knightly Valor, Grasp, Bonds, and Weight.

Then, on Sunday, I went into a DDF draft.
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So, as with before, I don't remember much about the deck I stomped 2-0 in Round 1, other than the fact that it was Red/Blue. In Round 2, I faced off against an Abzan counters deck, and it was really tough. Counters were being added all over the place. I went 2-1 in that Round. Round 3 was where the deck shined. I played against a Red/White Aggro deck, and took some early hits. However, once I got Ukud Cobra out, it essentially shut down his deck. The best he could do was 2-for-1 to kill the Cobra, and he didn't want to do that when I was repeatedly throwing down Dashers. He eventually did get rid of the Cobra somehow, and I got in a bit of trouble. I went down to 1, but as they say, 1 is not 0. Also, no one expects double Butcher's Glee. I went back up to 10, and ended up finishing him off with a Warkite and an Emissary. Then, Game 2. Pretty bad start... I had to mull to 4. Started off with 5 black cards and 2 Mountains. Mulled into a 1-land 6, then a no-land 5. My 4 was 2 Mountains, Mardu Scout, and Tail Slash. Opponent started out really aggressively, and I thought I was going to lose it really quick. But I kept drawing well, and Butcher's Glee saved my butt a couple times. Cobra got out and shut down his deck again. Then, just repeated dashing until I ended up dashing out Warbringer, Warbrute, and Shaman all on the same turn for lethal.

So, went 2-1 and 3-0 in my drafts. Wonder why I can't do that online.
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Re: The Limited thread

Postby Asthanius » 12 Aug 2015, 17:34

I went 3-0 in an Origins draft on MTGO with G/B Elves. I have to say, when you get the right cards, you just end up dumping your entire deck onto the board while killing the opponent's creatures. Also, Shadows of the Past puts in work if you get it down early.

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Re: The Limited thread

Postby fantôme » 17 Aug 2015, 12:46

Monday night draft: went 3-0 with g/w renown, very solid deck after drafting sensibly - I think all those lrrmtg videos have actually made me good at this!. Pulled a Nissa - which immediately died every time I cast her, oh well.
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Re: The Limited thread

Postby Drigien » 17 Aug 2015, 19:17

Drafted a fun G/U deck last night, went 2-1 losing first round to a mono-red deck that 3-0.

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I had multiple turn 5/6 Gaea followed by turn 6/7 Mage-Ring with Rogues Passage
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Re: The Limited thread

Postby MowDownJoe » 18 Aug 2015, 07:52

So, on Sunday, I went to a PPTQ. Didn't do too hot. Went 3-3, when I needed to go 4-2 for prizes and to have a shot at top 8. But I thought I built the best deck I could with the pool I got. Red had my only bomb, but with 5 playables I couldn't be bothered. The remaining colors were fine, and I had two gold cards arguing for what color pair I went with. But ultimately, my fate was sealed in R1, when I kept a powerful but slow hand against a R/W deck that went T1 Kytheon, T2 Subterranean Scout. Oh, well.
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Re: The Limited thread

Postby Jopoho » 29 Aug 2015, 13:30

Just started playing magic and started with limited, thanks to LRR videos. Two drafts into my career, and while I haven't won a match yet, I think my drafts have been pretty solid. And I'm a master of forcing game three. Also, I pulled a Nissa and Lilliana in two weeks, so my actual card-pulling luck is pretty off the charts.

If I could draw them in a match, it might help.
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Re: The Limited thread

Postby chetoos » 31 Aug 2015, 10:30

So I'm playing MTGO, but I'm determined to not spend any money on it, which is great, since I had some play points saved up apparently. I entered a phantom sealed and a draft yesterday, but was forced to leave the draft because my friend is a butt, but I played a 2 player legacy cube phantom sealed today, and it was awesome! I was playing a G/U deck, focused on ramping up to Kozilek, while my opponent seemed to be in a crazy 5 color shenanigans thing. It was awesome. The second game, I into the roil'd my avenger of zendikar which he'd taken, replayed it for a crop of new plants, played a bunch of lands to power them up, then swung with them and my 9/9 chasm skulker into his 5 zombies and grave titan. It was awesome!
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Re: The Limited thread

Postby Duckay » 31 Aug 2015, 19:46

I've become sort of addicted to the Legacy 2-man sealed events. I guess because it's a bite-sized piece of Magic that I can fit into my schedule all the time.

In other news, my favourite thing in draft is in the middle of pack 3 when you have to choose between 2 sweet cards for your deck. Best reassurance that you're in the right colours for your seat.
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Jopoho
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Re: The Limited thread

Postby Jopoho » 05 Sep 2015, 11:36

I managed to win a match in my third draft, fourth time playing magic. I found myself in red-blue, thanks to some odd passes from the people to my right. That said, for as nice as my cards got, the card that won me the day was Goblin Glory Chaser.

Turn 1- Goblin Glory Chaser
Turn 2 - Call of the full moon. Swing with a 4/3 glory chaser. Trigger renown and get menace.
Turn 3 Boggart Brute. Revel in menace.

The one-drop I ran because I desperately needed more cards that affected the board earlier did the most work.
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AdmiralMemo
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Re: The Limited thread

Postby AdmiralMemo » 01 Oct 2015, 09:26

Went into a Legacy Cube today... Started the draft kind of in Boros, but ended up in Mono-White Control... Faced off against Golgari Tokens and won... Faced off against Mono-Black Reanimator and won... Then in the finals... Faced off against Izzet Storm and won!
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My first-ever 3-0 in MtGO! In Cube! Against some difficult decks! I am happy!
Graham wrote:The point is: Nyeh nyeh nyeh. I'm an old man.
LRRcast wrote:Paul: That does not answer that question at all.
James: Who cares about that question? That's a good answer.

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