The Magic Venting Thread

A place to talk about standard, casual, limited and everything in between.
SixFootTurkey
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Re: The Magic Venting Thread

Postby SixFootTurkey » 26 Aug 2015, 22:22

Oh, yeah, it's incredibly rude. Also if they say they are leaving, and then return to pass priority, I would personally report them. (A single occurrence may not result in punitive action, but it will let WotC know to mark it down in case they make a habit of doing so.)
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Re: The Magic Venting Thread

Postby Kapol » 28 Aug 2015, 22:20

So this vent is related to Magic in that it's about where/how I play Magic.

I've mentioned before that I go to a place where all we do is chaos draft. I don't like it. But I accept it. Because... well, I like the people and I have no other options. Today, I've had to try to decide if that's enough. And, in doing so, decide if I'm going to quit playing Magic on a regular basis. Which would also mean losing a time that I have regular contact with others.

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It started when we had to figure out pods. We had 11 people. We were doing chaos draft, as usual. We were talking about it. The 'better players' said they wanted to split into two pods. One five and one six. Frankly, I find 11 to be too many people for a pod. 10 is pushing it and I would prefer two of five. But 11 is basically impossible to work with signals and similar core drafting concepts.

So what happens? We're forced into one pod. I mention that we should take a vote. At which point, the store owner says that we're either having one pod of 11, or we're having two seperate events with weird numbers. He says "if you four want to go play on your own, you're free to." He now refuses to do cross-pods for chaos draft.

It's something we've never had a problem with before. But one guy has blamed doing poorly on the cross-pods in chaos, and complained to the owner. He basically convinced the owner it's unfair and shitty. Despite the fact that the person from his pod has won the event the last few times it's happened. As far as I know, he's the only one who complained about it as well. And, of course, he didn't do well even when it was one big pod tonight.

So we draft a pod of 11. It's pretty bad, honestly. Everyones decks end up pretty weak. Because... well, 11-man pod. All the games go long. I end up drawing one. The person I drew against ended up drawing another. And every round goes to time because most decks are durdly.

So we come to the end of the night. I end up going 2-1-1 and getting fifth because of the wonky pairings and everything. But... that doesn't really bother me that much. It happens. And my deck was, to be honest, really bad. I shouldn't have won the two I did.


I mention to the store owner that I'm likely going to take a break. It's something I'd been thinking about since the start of the night. Because I'm just tired of this. He asks why. So I answer truthfully. It's because the chaos drafts are starting to become an actual problem. I don't mention that it's a problem that the store owner refuses to solve.

So we talk about it. My line being that I suggest having rotating drafts, with different sets every week. That way nobody is stuck playing something they dislike for long. He sells packs beyond the most recent set. It prevents things from getting stale. But, moreover, we get a consistant draft format that doesn't carry the concern of one groups cards being 'too powerful.' You can blame bad packs all you want, but you can't blame the sets of the other pod just being better.


His line basically broke into a number of parts. The first one kind of bothered me the most. That he doesn't necessarily want to take the advice of the more experienced players because he worries we're looking out for ourselves. This, to me, is both understandable and insulting at the same time. I understand the fear. But at the same time, I'd like to think he'd trust me enough to believe I'm not just in it for myself. That arguement also doesn't take into consideration that the problem is already going on. Two or three people are constantly getting the top spots every week. I don't think changing things is going to make that worse. If we really wanted to keep getting the top spots, then... why would we change anything?

This brought him into the discussion that he wants the store to be casual. He would rather stop than turn into a competitive environment. Which I can appreciate, to a degree. But he seems so afraid to turn the environment competitive that he's blind to the fact the more 'competitive players' already make up his regular playerbase. Every person he listed as a competitive player is one who shows up every week. While the others come and go based on schedule.

Of course, 'being casual' is a problem because he thinks any real drafting strategy is not being casual. He was talking to the other big player tonight about Khans. He used that against me. He talked about how, in Khans due to it being a three-color set, better players could 'read signals' to figure out what colors they should be in and build a plan around that. I tried to explain that's not just Khans. That's drafting. Every format requires that. You have to know what colors to move into when they're open, and which colors are drying out. He seems to think drafting is just forcing what you want to play. And it doesn't work like that.

He tried to suggest splitting into two pods. That's an idea I like. The issue is, we can't support it. We're lucky to hit 12 people for FNM. We can't realistically hit 16. And if we want to sanction the event, we need to have more than 8 people in a single pod.


His second main point was that he thinks people enjoy choosing their packs better. After all, they get to play with the set they want. I retort that they aren't playing the set they want this way. They're getting 2 picks per pack of the set they want. The rest of the packs are based on what everyone else wanted. So nobody is getting to really 'play the set they want.' They're playing a hodgepodge of sets that includes a small amount of the one they wanted. Which, honestly, generally is the latest set. Today we had at least seven of the 11 people playing triple Origins. One person went old packs, one person went dragons, one person went Khans, and I think that was it.

This brought up his point that there are players who don't like certain sets. And, as such, he's worried that doing it the way I suggested will drive them away. But if we're rotating formats, I don't really see how that's the case. They might skip a week, yes. But at least then they know what to expect. They don't have to come in, pick some packs, and then largely interact with a set they don't like. Part of the problem is that a few of the key people who dislike drafting newer sets draft more often than the others. They 'get tired' of the latest format, because they draft it online all the time. Which is fair. But I don't think it should twist away what everyone else wants because they play something too much.


I think what bothers me most about his arguement is that it's clear he has this idea in his head of how to run things, and it just doesn't seem to work. We had another guy running events for quite a while. We never really ran into these issues. But now that he's taken over, every week seems to bring more and more conflict. I can appreciate that he has a vision for what he wants his store to be like. The problem is, I don't fit into that vision. And if that's what the store needs, me and the other main guy not showing up... they need to just come out and say we can't play in FNM anymore. That's honestly all there is to it. I hate skirting around the issue as if we're trying to edge ourselves into better standings somehow.

I'm also upset because I feel bad. I don't like rocking the boat. And honestly, I feel guilty. I don't want to make this all about me. Tonight he ended up having to stay an extra 20 minutes for this discussion. Which, considering he had to be back so early the next day, isn't good for him. He has enough trouble running everything in the store seven days a week without me adding fuel to the fire. But I feel like something has to change. I'd like to think that change is for the better of the group. But it's clear that the change is something that has to happen for me to be comfortable continuing to play there. Even now, I feel bad for bringing this up. But it was this or just stopping out of nowhere.

Next week will be triple Origins, according to him. I highly doubt that's going to actually happen. But we'll see. In the mean time, I have to seriously consider where I stand on things, and what they mean to me.
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Re: The Magic Venting Thread

Postby phlip » 29 Aug 2015, 19:22

Ugh, that sucks, Kapol... I know the feeling of having only one store nearby, where the community is great but management sucks. I actually did just eventually stop going to mine, it just got to the point that having a major socialisation outlet cut off was worth just not having to put up with it any more (though in my case it was more "management, given any choice, will always take the option that means less work for them, ignoring any other consideration" rather than "management has a Vision that I just don't fit into").

Whichever side of that line you end up falling down on, I hope you can make it work for you.
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Re: The Magic Venting Thread

Postby Kapol » 29 Aug 2015, 21:10

Thanks, I really do appreciate that. It's just an annoying situation where I feel like the bad guy. I like the store owner and have a good amount of respect for him, though his attitude drops that sometimes. But I'm not sure he understands Magic as well as he thinks. Or it could be that I don't understand the community as well as I think. I think it hits a bit close to home. I've felt bad about consistently winning more than once.

If I do end up stopping going weekly, I'll likely end up just going to prereleases and maybe release drafts. There is another store, but they only offer 1v1 commander and modern with a more hostile environment. No drafting, which is big for me. I might try going back there if I really feel I need to play some Magic. But, based on having started there, I might just be better of moving to Magic Online.
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Re: The Magic Venting Thread

Postby Duckay » 29 Aug 2015, 22:41

phlip wrote:Ugh, that sucks, Kapol... I know the feeling of having only one store nearby, where the community is great but management sucks. I actually did just eventually stop going to mine, it just got to the point that having a major socialisation outlet cut off was worth just not having to put up with it any more (though in my case it was more "management, given any choice, will always take the option that means less work for them, ignoring any other consideration" rather than "management has a Vision that I just don't fit into").

Whichever side of that line you end up falling down on, I hope you can make it work for you.


You know another store has opened and started doing FNM in the area, right?
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Re: The Magic Venting Thread

Postby phlip » 30 Aug 2015, 16:25

Duckay wrote:You know another store has opened and started doing FNM in the area, right?

I've heard rumours about such a thing, I don't really know much about them... I'll have to check them out sometime.
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Re: The Magic Venting Thread

Postby Duckay » 30 Aug 2015, 17:39

Haha, I have an ulterior motive because I helped a little with setup. It's the same people that own the store up north that I used to play at when I lived up there.
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Re: The Magic Venting Thread

Postby phlip » 31 Aug 2015, 03:57

Well, I'll definitely take that as a recommendation!
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Re: The Magic Venting Thread

Postby SixFootTurkey » 31 Aug 2015, 09:16

Folks, you need to knock it off right now! What is all of this positivity doing in this thread? I am appalled!
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Re: The Magic Venting Thread

Postby Tacos_yay » 31 Aug 2015, 12:05

This isn't really a story that left me angry, just a story that left me Amused/Appalled/Confused at the same time. So I have this friend who doesn't understand that MTG is suppose to be fun for people that aren't him. He consistently makes turn two win decks, or turbo fog decks, or some other shenanigans. But he hadn't been as bad recently, (Excluding the Gilded Drake Episode) So I decided I would play a game with him. Now the first warning bell went of when he sat down with his 60 card deck and a mountain of a sideboard. Like, I have no idea how many cards. Second warning bell went off when on turn one I went 'Mountain, pass.' And he went 'Island, ramp, Pili-Pala, Grand Architect, tap, I now have infinate mana.' I responded by conceding, but he ignored that and started on his ridiculous combo. He went BSZ, draw for Research/development, use research, search sideboard for cards. Then play Death by Dragons, targeting himself so I get the dragon. Play Elixir, shuffle DbD and Research back into library. Repeat this like 1000 times, play blood reckoning, alluring Siren, force me to attack with my 1000 dragons, killing me with Blood reckoning. Turn 1 win. And that's why I ask to see his deck before playing games with him now.

If you want his deck list:
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/25-04-15 ... -yourself/
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Re: The Magic Venting Thread

Postby Duckay » 31 Aug 2015, 12:53

SixFootTurkey wrote:Folks, you need to knock it off right now! What is all of this positivity doing in this thread? I am appalled!


I'm terribly sorry.
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Re: The Magic Venting Thread

Postby AdmiralMemo » 31 Aug 2015, 13:02

Wait, how does he get that on turn ONE? What "ramp" is he getting? All I can see is Island, Sol Ring, Pili-Pala, which has summoning sickness. How does he get the Architect out? Turn TWO win, I can see with that combo, but not Turn ONE.
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Re: The Magic Venting Thread

Postby Tacos_yay » 31 Aug 2015, 14:06

Now that I think about it, it might have been turn two. From what I can remember, he went Island, Sol Ring, Pili-Pala, pass, island, Grand Architect, infinite.
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Re: The Magic Venting Thread

Postby korvys » 31 Aug 2015, 15:00

At the point where you concede, and he keeps going, I'd probably have just walked away from the table.

It's sort of like when people ask me as a judge what happens if you have Eye of the Storm, Storm of Possibilities, and Knowledge Pool in play, in a Commander game. The answer is you win, because everyone starts another game without you.

Other options include insisting he stick to a sanctioned format that isn't Vintage or Legacy.
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Re: The Magic Venting Thread

Postby AdmiralMemo » 31 Aug 2015, 17:44

So, you play mono-red burn against that deck to kill Pili-Pala before it can go off. Pull some 1-drop and 2-drop creature burn spells and you're golden. Or go red-black and put some Edicts in there too. Add in some artifact killers.
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Re: The Magic Venting Thread

Postby Tacos_yay » 31 Aug 2015, 17:55

That's solid advice Admiral Memo, but I think a better option is to just not play. And I do have a super aggro goblin deck, with Krenko and Lightning Bolts, so I could do that.
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Re: The Magic Venting Thread

Postby AdmiralMemo » 31 Aug 2015, 23:11

Yeah, not playing works, too, but if you wanted to give him a taste of his own un-fun medicine, just burn him out. Then he might see how fun the "single-player game" is from the other side. But whatever you think would be best.
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Re: The Magic Venting Thread

Postby vargsarath » 01 Sep 2015, 07:53

"And then He bloodbraid elfed and cascaded into a Liliana of the veil!" Had to be said.
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Re: The Magic Venting Thread

Postby Kapol » 26 Sep 2015, 04:32

Just got done with my worst prerelease. My pool was awful with no real solid colors honestly. My rares were either garbage or multicolor. I got the U/B Sire, which was the nicest thing I pulled, Brutal Expulsion, which is solid but U/R, The 5/3 haste in R/B, Aligned Hedron Network, Temple of the Foresaken Gods, and TWO Serpentine Spike (one being my promo), which I just really dislike. Given I had been badmouthing it on Reddit a few days ago, I guess it's just kind of my comeuppance that I pull two of it.

I ended up building a weird Eldrazi Grixis deck. It was meant to be more goofy and fun than anything. I could have made a more aggressive R/W deck that would have likely done better. But it didn't really have any way to finish a game out. Also, while red had pretty good aggression that I did play, white had all of four playable creatures. It DID have 5 removal spells. But 3 of them were Sheer Drop. Sheer Drop is good. But letting your opponent swing is a real downside.

But I played the goofy deck because it seemed fun, right? Nope. Even with the new mulligan rule, I had to mulligan about half the time. I mean, my land was pretty evenly spread out, and I often got color screwed. No fixing does that though. And it was a risk I went in knowing. I just didn't expect it to happy five times over five matches. I only drew my real bombs a few times. The sire twice, both times when the game was already over. I never got to play the 7/5 during a 'real' part of the game (I'll explain in a minute). The 5/3 showed up a couple times, as did Brutal Expulsion. But normally not when it mattered.

To end on a good note, though, I did end the night with a ton of fun. The last match, me and my opponent were exhausted. Neither of us thought we were likely for prizes. We were a bit goofy the first game. The second, we went full on loopy. We just stuttered and made jokes. Eventually, I got him down to one life, and finally got Sire on the field to kill him (untapping Nettal Drone). But I decided to let him draw, as I had him dead. He draws. He plays a land, mostly for fun. We end up just letting stuff happen for fun for a while. I let him play things out. He plays breaker of armies and the 8/9 trampler. I let him swing for a while. He 5-for-1s me with Breaker. But we're just messing around.

He ends up losing due to milling himself out. His deck seem perfectly in order so that every third card was a land, so he'd draw it thanks to Sire and play it. His last play was a 12/12 Endless One. Which... he couldn't attack with since it had summoning sickness and he had no cards in his library.

So we had a lot of laughs and fun. That is a good payoff to playing the silly deck. Having the deck shit on me for so much of the night was frustrating, but I did end up seeing the reason I played it. A good time.

TL;DR: Bad pulls, bad games, fun final match.
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Re: The Magic Venting Thread

Postby RytelCSF » 26 Sep 2015, 10:27

So I attempted to play at a local prerelease today. Emphasis on "attempted."

The event was to start at noon. I got there at 11:30 only to be told that all the available seating had been "reserved" and that I wouldn't be able to play. However, they did have additional prerelease kits, and I just could buy one of those instead, for the same cost as attending the event.

If it was just full, or if they had just run out of kits, I wouldn't be so bothered by it. They didn't anticipate the demand, neither did I, shit happens. However, the store wasn't full, it was "reserved." While the place is small and doesn't have a lot of seating, it was at most half full when I got there. That's a lot of regulars reserving their spot so they can waltz on in right at noon while everyone else has to get there early and hope. (Their website and Facebook also mentioned nothing about reservations or limited availability, naturally.) The second thing is that they had additional kits to sell. You know what your occupancy is, so it just seems disingenuous to deliberately order more kits than you know you have the capacity for, just so you can sell them. (Though to be fair, I did buy one, because... sure.)

What sucks is that their afternoon prerelease events are about the only opportunity I have to play Magic. I work early mornings, and the vast majority of Magic events take place during the evening, meaning they're still going strong around the time I'd like to be asleep, much less getting ready for bed. It's not a good match. In fact, this would've been the first Magic I've played since the Magic Origins prerelease, the first (and so far only) one I attended at this store, the first time I've found a game store I didn't inherently feel uncomfortable at.

So now I'm downloading and firing up Magic Online, because while I don't like MTGO drafting all that much, goddammit I wanted to play Magic today, and I'm fucking playing Magic today.

(By the way, in the prerelease pack I bought? Promo foil Ulamog. Not that makes a difference, I guess, since I'll never get to use it.)
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Re: The Magic Venting Thread

Postby unknowngamer » 04 Oct 2015, 19:15

My past couple weeks with magic have not been great.

I tried going to a prerelease for BFZ, but when I get to the store there's a sign on the door saying they moved 2 miles across town only a couple days prior. The kicker? The new address was not listed on the WotC store locator and even the store's website didn't mention it. It's 10 minutes before the event is set for, and the new place isn't even bus accessible. So that ain't happening. The only other game store in town isn't running sealed at all, and a ton of the product they're getting for next week is all spoken for and no one at all is running release events.

This sort of thing has happened too often, so I decide to get Magic online. The new player drafts go pretty awful. Draft has never been my preferred format, and with four player pods I liked it even less. Across 5 drafts, my record is 6-4. A non-zero amount of those wins were because my opponents timed out, so I didn't even really get to play that much. I open all the packs, and only get three rares between all 17 packs. Honored Hierarch, Dark Petition, and Dwynen, Gilt-leaf Daen. Worth precisely EFF-all.

I jump into a Origins swiss hoping to see some cards that might be worth a damn and play an actual 8-person draft. The cards going around are aggressively mediocre. I go WU control after getting passed a Vryn Wingmare, get a Gideon's Phalanx pack three. I feel okay about the deck, it has 23 playables and could be considered to have an archetype. Lose game one from severe mana screw. Battle back in game two, and then get out aggro'd in game three. Round two? Bye. Uuuuuuuuuuuugh. Round three go up against a really solid BR sacrifice deck, lose in 2 games.

I figure that if I'm gonna continue drafting, it'll be with BFZ once it comes out (I'm pretty done Origins after playing Duels to death) so I'll crack my one pack for the hell of it. My rare? Talent of the Telepath. kinda says it all, right there.
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Re: The Magic Venting Thread

Postby the_lone_bard » 06 Oct 2015, 06:26

Well great. Due to my current problems that spiraled into debt, I wont have money to play BFZ for about 6 weeks, maybe 8. This is the first pre-release I missed in a year, I missed FrF, and then Scars. Now, I just don't get to play for basically the majority of a set. I miss being able to have a hobby :(
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Re: The Magic Venting Thread

Postby Kapol » 30 Oct 2015, 19:56

I lost a match tonight due to someone else.

It was game two. I was up game one. It was the last turn. I was at 7, opponent was at 1. I have a graveyard filled with stuff. I have 10 lands. I go Pilgrim's Eye, Possessed Skaab. I pause and lament the fact I think I just cost myself the game, as I had a Clash Of Currents in my graveyard that I could have used to bounce his blocker and swing in with a basic land. Of course, in retrospect, I don't think I could have, but still. I plan on grabbing my Dispate from my graveyard, trying to think of the best move. And a bystander speaks up.

"You already have the win this turn."

My opponent glares at him and says he can't say anything. The guy apologizes, but it's too late. I pause and look at my graveyard, where I have two Dominator Drones. My opponent is at 1. I have Pilgrim's Eye and three mana. I pull it out and play it. My opponent calls a judge and is obviously pissed. I feel awful.

Judge rules the game is restarted.

We play game 'two' and I lose quickly. Kept a bad hand. We play game three. I keep a hand with Possessed Skaab, Disipate, Blighted Cataract, and two of both of my colors. I give it a shot. My opponent misses a few land drops in a row. I, on the other hand, draw the 2/1 for 2 that you can pay 5 to make something unblockable on curve, and then... do nothing. At all. I don't get another spell for 5 turns. When I crack the Cataract, I draw into two more land. Then I procede to draw all my non-creatures (running 16 creatures in the deck). I lose as he gets his removal. I ended up, out of 18 cards, getting 13 land. Including the three extra cards I'd drawn throughout the game.

Honestly, I don't know if I'd have seen the play to win on my own. I'd like to think I would have. But the fact another player said something and basically cost me any chance of winning was very upsetting. The store is casual, and I don't blame him. But it made for a rough night. I wouldn't have been as upset had I not only lost the last game due to drawing nothing but lands. But as it was, it made me miserable.
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Re: The Magic Venting Thread

Postby SixFootTurkey » 30 Oct 2015, 22:50

Restarting a game is quite excessive for Regular REL (which I'm assuming this is - FNM is held at Regular), and as I just checked, basically never a recommended/supported fix. I would check in with the TO (Tournament Organizer - typically the store owner) to let them know about your experience. If they don't see anything wrong with it either, you could take it a step further and contact the Regional Coordinator. (Note that there's no need to be afraid you're overreacting; if you feel a judge handled something inappropriately, they can get in touch with them to make sure it doesn't happen in the future.)
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Re: The Magic Venting Thread

Postby JackSlack » 09 Nov 2015, 13:39

Ferfucksake. If the only Eldrazi in your deck is Ulamog, you do not get to call your deck an 'Eldrazi deck'.

Lookin' at you, Melissa DeTora.

Lookin' at you, Michael Majors.

You get a pass, Minh Nguyen. Good for you.

These may all be good decks, but the idea that putting a single Eldrazi in it makes it an 'Eldrazi deck' is absurd, especially when most of them seem as much concerned, if not moreso, with resolving Ugin.

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