Custom cards - Playability assessment

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tamaness
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Re: Custom cards - Playability assessment

Postby tamaness » 10 Jul 2014, 08:04

I think he intends to double kicker and buyback costs with the effect
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Re: Custom cards - Playability assessment

Postby JackSlack » 10 Jul 2014, 10:51

I'm thinking in particular of Commanders being recast.
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Re: Custom cards - Playability assessment

Postby Asthanius » 10 Jul 2014, 16:24

You could just make it EDH specific, and just say "Additional casting costs for commanders are doubled".
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Re: Custom cards - Playability assessment

Postby AdmiralMemo » 31 Jul 2014, 15:38

Aggressive Mulling

R
Sorcery

Deal 2 damage to target creature or player.
If Aggressive Mulling is in your opening hand, discard Aggressive Mulling, mulligan your hand, and deal 2 damage to target player.
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Re: Custom cards - Playability assessment

Postby Volafortis » 31 Jul 2014, 17:29

First, it would need to be a may, since rules are tough to police with regards to mandatory actions in private zones.

Also, it seems too good in burn. Hitting it twice at the start into a hand of Goblin Guide + 2 Bolt variants seems insane. It's a cool idea, but I don't think you could make cards using a mechanic like that both exciting and safe to play. The reason Cipher was bad was the same issue. It's why storm has cause so many problems. It's a mechanic that's so powerful that you either make the cards unplayably bad, but safe to print (Cipher), or fun and exciting to play, but broken in half (Storm).
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Re: Custom cards - Playability assessment

Postby AdmiralMemo » 31 Jul 2014, 18:28

Well, my main thing is I wanted a card that forced you to mull, no matter what the hand is. Thus, I wanted it to have some up-side, and a forced mull with an up-side seems like a Red ability, so I tacked on a Shock. Is there some other card I could tack on instead?

Or perhaps it's a Blue ability? Maybe a Tome Scour?
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Re: Custom cards - Playability assessment

Postby tamaness » 31 Jul 2014, 18:34

There's no way to enforce a mandatory trigger in a hidden zone. The best way to make someone want to mulligan with one of these cards in hand is to give them a good up-side.
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Re: Custom cards - Playability assessment

Postby Volafortis » 31 Jul 2014, 19:11

I understand you intended to force the trigger, but that can't work in the rules.

Gifts Ungiven had a similar problem, where technically you had to search for 4 cards with different names, but because it was a private zone, you could opt to "fail to find," since your opponent has no way to legally verify that you have 4 different card names to search for. This was originally seen as seedy play, but, because they can't afford to have judges getting called for deck checks every time Gifts Ungiven is cast, they simply changed the wording, so now you may search for up to 4 cards with different names.

Miracle originally was an idea for a card with a forced cast upon draw, but again, because your draws are private, it couldn't be enforced, and became optional.

So yeah, that downside can't work as a downside, just because of how the game works (and, to be honest, in an aggressive red deck, you wouldn't ever want to turn down the mulligan anyway, 2 free damage at the start of the game is bonkers for burn.

For what it's worth, I agree that the concept is a red mechanic, even though it can't work the way you want it to, in the rules.
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Re: Custom cards - Playability assessment

Postby AdmiralMemo » 01 Aug 2014, 02:00

So... Why do Leylines from original Ravnica/M11 work, then? They're permanents that change the game like that before the game even starts. Is it simply the "may"?

So, if this was turned into a "may" then it would work kind of like the Leylines, except as, essentially, an instant instead of a permanent?

Also, if the Shock is too good, then what other cheap effect could be tacked on instead?
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Re: Custom cards - Playability assessment

Postby Jenelmo » 01 Aug 2014, 04:06

AdmiralMemo wrote:So... Why do Leylines from original Ravnica/M11 work, then? They're permanents that change the game like that before the game even starts. Is it simply the "may"?


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Re: Custom cards - Playability assessment

Postby Volafortis » 01 Aug 2014, 08:02

Yes, if you change it to a may, the card will work.

As far as what effect would be safe, It's really hard to say. 1 damage would probably be safe, but it would be super unexciting. Basically, you'd be giving all upside with the effect.

Making the mulligan part of the free effect is just you tacking on an upside to hands a player would mulligan. (I this hand good? No? Well then I'll use this card to mulligan and get an effect. Yes, it is good? Well I won't mulligan, and it'll simply be sorccery shock.)
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Re: Custom cards - Playability assessment

Postby tamaness » 01 Aug 2014, 14:16

I'd stick with the shock, but adjust it in play testing.
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Re: Custom cards - Playability assessment

Postby Dedwrekka » 02 Aug 2014, 09:21

So, I had an idea from one of the questions asked in the recent TTC about a LoadingReadyRun themed card.


Commentator Council

Enchantment

At beginning of your upkeep look at the top card of your library if it is a land, put it into play. Otherwise, put it into your hand and draw a number of cards equal to that card's converted mana cost and place them into your hand.
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Re: Custom cards - Playability assessment

Postby Re'ozul » 03 Aug 2014, 04:55

Dedwrekka wrote:So, I had an idea from one of the questions asked in the recent TTC about a LoadingReadyRun themed card.


Commentator Council

Enchantment

At beginning of your upkeep look at the top card of your library if it is a land, put it into play. Otherwise, put it into your hand and draw a number of cards equal to that card's converted mana cost and place them into your hand.


:shock:
Wow, what kind of cost would that even be?

Considering the kind of continuous card advantage, I'd probably go 8 drop? less if its multicolor, though not lower than 6 (1WUBRG).
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Re: Custom cards - Playability assessment

Postby WP&P » 04 Aug 2014, 20:14

How about changing Commentator Council to be a replacement for your draw step? Skip your draw phase, reveal top card on upkeep, and draw X cards where X = CMC. If the revealed card's CMC is less than 1, put that card into play.
Yeah yeah, I know, templating would need to be cleaned up, this is just outlining a possible way to make a non-buh-roken card.

You still get card advantage on spells of 2-drop or greater status, but not as much raw advantage since you're forgoing regular draw. 1-drops are parity, and lands come at the cost of being your draw for that turn; any 0-cost spells you might have (Ornithopter?) are forced to be played out.

What would that version have to cost?
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Re: Custom cards - Playability assessment

Postby Asthanius » 05 Aug 2014, 09:06

What if it was:

Commentator Council 3GUB
Enchantment

Skip your draw step.

At the beginning of your upkeep, reveal the top card of your library. If you reveal a land card this way, put it onto the battlefield. Otherwise, put it into your hand and draw a number of cards equal to its converted mana cost.
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Re: Custom cards - Playability assessment

Postby Volafortis » 05 Aug 2014, 14:52

Probably too good at 6. Your land draws become better, since it doesn't count as your land drop, allowing you to still play out any extra lands in your hand, which you will certainly have, because you'll be drawing 2 cards on any 1 drop, and it only goes up from there.

How about this:
----------------------------------
Commentator Council - 2UU
Enchantment - Rare

Skip your draw step.

At the beginning of your upkeep, reveal the top card of your library, then put it into your hand. Then, look at the top X cards of your library, where X is the revealed card's converted mana cost. Put one of those cards into your hand, and the rest on the bottom of your library in any order.
----------------------------------

Land drops actually count as a whiff, while not locking your topdeck, and you can only net 2 cards per turn ever. Bigger cards merely improve card selection.
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Re: Custom cards - Playability assessment

Postby JackSlack » 11 Sep 2014, 16:41

Treasure Auction - 3WW
Enchantment - Rare

Place a number of counters greater than 0 on Treasure Auction. Any opponent may pay X mana to remove a number of counters equal to X; you gain X life. If this would result in the last counter being removed from Treasure Auction, that player gains control of Treasure Auction.

If no counters are on Treasure Auction, creatures you control gain +2/+2.
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Re: Custom cards - Playability assessment

Postby Volafortis » 11 Sep 2014, 16:48

I feel like you should have an upper bound on the number of counters that can be on it.

Although I guess if you make the number too high (Graham's Number, anyone?), it'll just sit there and do nothing.

Seems like a fun minigame card, actually, and the cost is high enough that you can't just go "Hexmage, haha!" since 5 mana for a global +2/+2 is actually pretty par the course.
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Re: Custom cards - Playability assessment

Postby JackSlack » 11 Sep 2014, 17:24

Exactly, Volafortis. It's only something you'd make a play for if you think you can grab it in a reasonable number of moves. In single player, it's basically, "Will you give me X life in exchange for a +2/+2 on all your creatures?" In multi, I'd be tempted to put the number up higher, to see if people will chip away at the number in the hopes of a chance to swoop in big and snatch up the prize.

I wonder if the prize aspect isn't a bit too weak to generate that kind of play though. Maybe it should be that when you pay X mana, you remove X counters and put one 1/1 Soldier token into play so there's always an incentive to chip away at the counters.
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Re: Custom cards - Playability assessment

Postby JackSlack » 11 Sep 2014, 19:21

Which works better for people, the above or:

--
Treasure Auction - 3WW
Enchantment - Rare

Place a number of counters greater than 0 on Treasure Auction. Any opponent may pay X mana to remove a number of counters equal to X and put a 1/1 soldier token into play; you gain 2 life. If this would result in the last counter being removed from Treasure Auction, that player gains control of Treasure Auction.

If no counters are on Treasure Auction, creatures you control gain +2/+2.
--

This version both incentivizes and disincentivizes little stabs at the thing; you get a bonus (woo! Soldier token!) every time, but because it's no longer X but a set amount, the more stabs you make means the more life you give away.

I'm kind of torn. I think the latter works better for multi and the former for duel. Given I imagine this card as a multiplayer only card, I guess it's probably the latter is better?
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Re: Custom cards - Playability assessment

Postby CSt » 12 Sep 2014, 00:17

Frankly you couldn't pay me to play this card. Just imagine you played this with five counters on it. Your opponent immediately pays five mana, you gain 10 life. And gave your opponent five 3/3s. And +2/+2 to his other creatures.
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Re: Custom cards - Playability assessment

Postby Volafortis » 12 Sep 2014, 09:59

I'd make the ability work like this:

Treasure Auction - 3WW
Enchantment - Rare

When Treasure Auction enters the battlefield or changes controller, place any number greater than zero of bid counters on it.

X: Remove X bid counters from Treasure Auction, it's controller gains X life. If X is 3 or greater, put a 1/1 soldier token onto the battlefield. If this ability would remove the last bid counter, gain control of Treasure Auction. Only opponents may activate this ability.

Creatures you control get +2/+2
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Re: Custom cards - Playability assessment

Postby Volafortis » 12 Sep 2014, 10:12

Actually, that gives me an idea for my own fun multiplayer card:

Form of the Demon - BBB
Enchantment - Rare

Indestructible

1, Pay 1 life: Draw a card. Place an ascension counter on Demonic Ascension's controller. Only an opponent may activate this ability, and they may only use it once per turn.

At the beginning of your upkeep, draw a card. Then, you gain X life and each opponent loses X life, where X is the number of ascension counters you have.
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Re: Custom cards - Playability assessment

Postby JackSlack » 12 Sep 2014, 19:01

I'm not sure I'd ever pay the cost on that, to be honest. The way it rolls upward and the indestructible on it to me make it way too powerful. I'd depower it a lot.

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