Loading Ready Fan Draft.

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Duckay
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Re: Loading Ready Fan Draft.

Postby Duckay » 28 Feb 2015, 16:24

It seems to be correct. And thank you for the update; I appreciate that I probably would have known that if I had been up to date on all pages but trying to go back through was a bit confusing.

ETA: Also it appears ZePancakes and I are inadvertently doing a Fan Draft of our own. ;) I see you in that 8-4, Ze!
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Re: Loading Ready Fan Draft.

Postby hascow » 28 Feb 2015, 20:39

I drafted a super sweet Jeskai deck this week that I got passed in the entirety of pack 2. Here's the deck: http://i.imgur.com/LuwxBH2.jpg

It was remarkably consistent, as I guess will happen when you have two of two different 6-drops that you want to see every game.
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Re: Loading Ready Fan Draft.

Postby AdmiralMemo » 28 Feb 2015, 21:03

I'm seriously considering quitting Magic after tonight. It's mainly for the reason that I don't understand why my deck was so terrible? What did I do so wrong that I went 0-3 with what I thought was a strong deck?

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Seriously... What am I missing here?
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Re: Loading Ready Fan Draft.

Postby ZePancakes » 28 Feb 2015, 21:30

Duckay wrote:It seems to be correct. And thank you for the update; I appreciate that I probably would have known that if I had been up to date on all pages but trying to go back through was a bit confusing.

ETA: Also it appears ZePancakes and I are inadvertently doing a Fan Draft of our own. ;) I see you in that 8-4, Ze!



Haha purely coincidence I swear. Can't remember how I went since I've been chaining pods but I believe I went 2-1? Shame we didn't face off!
Oh-h-h-h SNAP... Concede.

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Re: Loading Ready Fan Draft.

Postby steric hindrance » 28 Feb 2015, 21:35

AdmiralMemo wrote:Seriously... What am I missing here?

I think it's a fine deck, but I wouldn't expect to 3-0 with it, for the following reasons:
  • It has basically no removal apart from a couple of combat tricks and the Debilitating Injury. If your opponent sticks one of the FRF rare dragons, you have almost no way of dealing with it.
  • Seek the Horizon seems to be out of place in the deck. I would expect to run it in very grindy decks that need lots of land, and I don't see an Ugin or Villainous Wealth in yours. Dragonscale Boon is probably better.
  • Fruits of the First Tree doesn't seem that great of a card. There is the potential of drawing a lot of cards, but there is also the potential of having your creature killed in response or just bounced, leading to a loss of tempo. I would probably just run another creature (which in turn makes Sorin better).
  • Your deck seems like it doesn't have much of a plan (see latest LR episode). You have some early creatures that are excellent in getting you to the late game (Hateblade, Emissary, Rattleclaw) but not a lot of powerful things to do once you get there. There aren't the Outlast lords that really reward you for being in Abzan colors and not any big creatures that automatically trump your opponents'. On the other hand, you have some cards that work great when you curve out (Roar of Challenge and Sorin), but you have some clunky four- and higher drops that might clog up your draws.
I can see this deck getting there with a nice curve into Incremental Growth or Sorin, but I can also see it getting ground down in a board-stall against a more controlling build easily.
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Re: Loading Ready Fan Draft.

Postby Omega Lairon » 28 Feb 2015, 21:51

The draft report - now with 90% less data loss via random freezing.

The cards
Click to Expand
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Probably one of the messiest drafts I've had thus far - the Fate pack wanted me in pretty much every colour, but I was able to stumble into some adequate white and green. A few decent red and gold cards which I ended up passing had me seriously wondering between Abzan/Mardu almost the rest of the way through. Eventually, I stood my ground and was able to cobble this together. P1P1 was the Wardscale Dragon - given the kinda crappy (IIRC) rare I opened.

Managed a somewhat muddy 1-2 with it, which really should have been an 0-3

I got drawn against Adam (Swagbats) in round 1... which I'm sure would be the only way I was likely to face off against him, given our hilariously dissonant skill levels. Game 1 illustrated that nicely - an utterly dominant performance with his big and nasty critters' relentless assault. I fared a little better in game 2, even managing to put up a decent resistance in the air. A timely Arcbond-ing wiped clear the board however, and I couldn't muster the troops to finish the job.

Round 2 against AdmiralMemo was... controversial. His technical difficulties cost him a few very big plays, which helped me gain more of a foothold than I deserved. From this, I was able to attrition out most of his remaining threats in game 1. Game 2 was similar - some very one-sided luck saw my cards faring much better than they would have on pretty much any other day.

Finally, I faced DomesticSleepers in the third round, where a strong showing from one seriously cheesed off bear token tore me any my creatures to shreds in game 1. Game 2 was similarly brutal - I held onto a 2 mana hand which in hindsight should have been an obvious mull. Off-land, and unable to put up too much resistance, I was again crushed under the weight of some powerful beasties.

Oh well, that's just how the game goes sometimes. I had a good time, as usual, and look forward to doing it all again next week.

Also, at the risk of making things worse, Memo - I thought you had a decent deck with some very strong plays in it. I'm sorry if anything I said came off the wrong way, but I honestly meant nothing but good intentions. I'm just not super good at knowing what to say or do at the best of times, and I hope I didn't cause too much damage.
Last edited by Omega Lairon on 28 Feb 2015, 21:58, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Loading Ready Fan Draft.

Postby AdmiralMemo » 28 Feb 2015, 21:56

steric hindrance wrote:
AdmiralMemo wrote:Seriously... What am I missing here?

I think it's a fine deck, but I wouldn't expect to 3-0 with it, for the following reasons:
  • It has basically no removal apart from a couple of combat tricks and the Debilitating Injury. If your opponent sticks one of the FRF rare dragons, you have almost no way of dealing with it.
  • Seek the Horizon seems to be out of place in the deck. I would expect to run it in very grindy decks that need lots of land, and I don't see an Ugin or Villainous Wealth in yours. Dragonscale Boon is probably better.
  • Fruits of the First Tree doesn't seem that great of a card. There is the potential of drawing a lot of cards, but there is also the potential of having your creature killed in response or just bounced, leading to a loss of tempo. I would probably just run another creature (which in turn makes Sorin better).
  • Your deck seems like it doesn't have much of a plan (see latest LR episode). You have some early creatures that are excellent in getting you to the late game (Hateblade, Emissary, Rattleclaw) but not a lot of powerful things to do once you get there. There aren't the Outlast lords that really reward you for being in Abzan colors and not any big creatures that automatically trump your opponents'. On the other hand, you have some cards that work great when you curve out (Roar of Challenge and Sorin), but you have some clunky four- and higher drops that might clog up your draws.
I can see this deck getting there with a nice curve into Incremental Growth or Sorin, but I can also see it getting ground down in a board-stall against a more controlling build easily.
I learned that Fruit was bad quickly, and it was sided out every chance I got. I never did draw it in any Game 1s, though, so it didn't affect anything, really.

Not much removal was going around that I saw... I think I remember a Kill Shot in the pack with Sorin, but otherwise, I didn't notice anything.

I played Seek because I needed fixing. It was there to fetch black, along with Ainok Guide. I probably should've played at least 1 more Swamp, but I was at 30 seconds when clicking for lands and just taking what MtGO gave me, aside from cutting a Forest for the Sands.

My plan was take Dragonscale General and try to get stuff for the +1/+1 counters to play off of, but it never came together.

Also, I had Feral Krushok in there for the longest time, but the people in my Chat told me to take it out, so I did.

OK, so I've gotten advice from various sources that I should've taken out Seek, Boon, Fruit, Growth, and Roar, and put in Krushok. What other 4 cards? I'm thinking Vengeance maybe, and some people said Smoke Tellers, but I've never liked them. They're Lenses on a body, and everyone says Lenses are bad.
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Re: Loading Ready Fan Draft.

Postby Lord Hosk » 28 Feb 2015, 22:07

AdmiralMemo wrote:I'm seriously considering quitting Magic after tonight. It's mainly for the reason that I don't understand why my deck was so terrible? What did I do so wrong that I went 0-3 with what I thought was a strong deck?



Seriously... What am I missing here?



Like what Steric Hindrance said, You have strong cards but not great synergy.

Based on your pool I would cut

Seek the Horizon for a Swamp
Cut Sage-Eye Harrier for witness of the ages or War Behemoth
Cut Fruit of the First Tree for the second DragonScale Boon or maybe even Smoke teller

You are light on creatures which makes Roar of Challenge, Swarm of Bloodflies, and Incremental Growth worse. Also its harder to cast the Mandrils.

ETA:
They're Lenses on a body, and everyone says Lenses are bad.


Lenses are bad because they don't do anything. The smoke teller is a bear, the look at a creature is just a possible addition. 2/2 of 2 is almost always solid, there are a lot of 2 damage removal spells in this format but they are unlikely to waste one on a smoke teller, those get saved for morphs and manifests.
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Re: Loading Ready Fan Draft.

Postby AdmiralMemo » 28 Feb 2015, 22:13

OK, so some people tell me to cut Boon, and others tell me to put in more Boon... This is going to be a problem...

Also... "light on creatures"? I have FIFTEEN... How is that not enough?
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Re: Loading Ready Fan Draft.

Postby steric hindrance » 28 Feb 2015, 22:18

AdmiralMemo wrote:OK, so I've gotten advice from various sources that I should've taken out Seek, Boon, Fruit, Growth, and Roar, and put in Krushok. What other 4 cards? I'm thinking Vengeance maybe, and some people said Smoke Tellers, but I've never liked them. They're Lenses on a body, and everyone says Lenses are bad.

Lenses are bad because they aren't worth a card -- the Smoke Tellers should be judged on whether you want a 2/2 body (which is worth a card); remember the Vanilla Test. Boon is fine in your deck, because you need some way of getting rid of blockers, and it's one of the better combat tricks in the set. Incremental Growth is excellent in a deck with at least fifteen creatures, and here you have sixteen; you can sometimes get a win off of 2-drop, 3-drop, 4-drop, Growth. I don't like Vengeance here with its double-black cost.
My recommendations:
-1 Seek the Horizon
-1 Fruit of the First Tree
-1 Sultai Emissary (trying to minimize the black splash)
-1 Sage-Eye Harrier (a little slow)
+2 Smoke Teller
+1 Dragonscale Boon
+1 some creature like Witness of the Ages or Feral Krushok

If I had drafted this deck, I'd look to attack with creatures to get my opponent to a low life total, then wait for reach in the form of Roar or Growth.
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Re: Loading Ready Fan Draft.

Postby Lord Hosk » 28 Feb 2015, 22:22

15 would be fine, but your deck wants you to be able to throw stuff into the bin and still go wide.

Blood sucker, Bloodflies and Hooting Mandrils are all things that want you to either have things in the yard or put things in the yard.

Roar of the challenge, Incremental Growth, Sorin and Boon and the blood sucker all want you to go wide.

I dont like Dragonscale boon, I think its a obvious trick that is easy to play around. That being said, when it works, its a blow out that wrecks your opponent.

Again there is no "right answer" as you have see any time someone streams magic, at any given point there will be one to 10 choices you can make all of which MIGHT be the right answer.

The thing about magic is its less about the cards than it is about how and when to use them. The reason the same 15-20 people are always at the top of the major events isnt because they own the best cards if the best cards were all you needed people who net deck the pro tour decks would always win every FNM, but more often its the home brews that break the meta that win those.
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Re: Loading Ready Fan Draft.

Postby steric hindrance » 28 Feb 2015, 22:29

Lord Hosk wrote:I dont like Dragonscale boon, I think its a obvious trick that is easy to play around. That being said, when it works, its a blow out that wrecks your opponent.

There is the fact that there isn't much better in the board to act as removal; I'd love to have a Murderous Cut or a Throttle instead, but there isn't, so the second Boon will have to do. That said, opponents will rarely expect the second Boon, so there is entertainment value there. (I remember getting blown out at the M15 prerelease by the second Aetherspouts.)
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Re: Loading Ready Fan Draft.

Postby korvys » 28 Feb 2015, 22:30

I'm not a fan of Boon. It's a huge effect, especially if you get some extra value from the counters from a lord or something, but it's 4 mana, which means it's probably the only thing you're doing that turn, while still risking a 2-for-1. Incremental Growth is the same for me. Big effect, but conditional.
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Re: Loading Ready Fan Draft.

Postby Lord Hosk » 28 Feb 2015, 22:31

Boon isnt a bad card, I just dont like it personally. Its not Fog.
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Re: Loading Ready Fan Draft.

Postby steric hindrance » 28 Feb 2015, 22:43

I don't disagree with the assessment of Boon as an expensive trick that can be telegraphed easily; I'm saying that it's better in Admiral Memo's deck than some of the more durdly cards in the main.
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Re: Loading Ready Fan Draft.

Postby AdmiralMemo » 28 Feb 2015, 22:59

Lord Hosk wrote:The thing about magic is its less about the cards than it is about how and when to use them. The reason the same 15-20 people are always at the top of the major events isnt because they own the best cards if the best cards were all you needed people who net deck the pro tour decks would always win every FNM, but more often its the home brews that break the meta that win those.
You can't Net-deck a Draft, though, and I'm not having nearly the problems in Constructed that I am in Draft.

Alright, I'm going through my draft picks with an eye for removal. Let me know if I chose wrong somewhere. Here's what I took instead of removal:

Dragonscale General over Douse in Gloom, Return to the Earth, Whisk Away (actually bounce, but will do in a pinch)
Dragon Bell Monk over Merciless Executioner (Maybe probably should've picked that, but didn't know I was going into Black at second pick)
Ainok Guide over Grim Contest
Formless Nurturing over Hunt the Weak
Arashin Cleric over Cunning Strike (didn't want to go into 2 other colors 5 picks in)
Abzan Kin-guard over Harsh Sustenance
Feral Krushok over Return to the Earth
Sorin over Smite the Monstrous, Temur Charm
Blossoming Sands over Mardu Charm
Abzan Guide over Kill Shot (I debated this heavily)
Kheru Bloodsucker over Swift Kick
Hooting Mandrils over Shambling Attendants (Also debated this)
Seek the Horizon over Defiant Strike (accidental double-click so I didn't even see the pack actually)
Rakshasha Deathdealer over Smite the Monstrous, Feat of Resistance, Awaken the Bear (both possible removal?)
Dragonscale Boon over Bring Low
Rattleclaw Mystic over Smite the Monstrous
Feat of Resistance over Bring Low
Dragonscale Boon over Bring Low
Incremental Growth over Awaken the Bear
Molting Snakeskin over Bring Low

OK, so there was more removal going around than I realized. :|
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Re: Loading Ready Fan Draft.

Postby Duckay » 28 Feb 2015, 23:22

The ones that really stick out to me there are Dragon Bell Monk over Merciless Executioner (I get that it's on colour, but honestly I don't particularly like the Monk - I think it's just fine, but nothing special - and that's a time you could take something else and try to stay open easily enough), Ainok Guide over Grim Contest (this might be just me - I love Grim Contest and Ainok Guide is a very replaceable card, in my experience), and Formless Nurturing over Hunt the Weak (Formless Nurturing keeps ending up in my pile, but not in my deck - I always have something I'd rather do for 4 mana, and Hunt the Weak is one of them).

The others I generally see why you made the choices you did and can't argue with them, really.
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Re: Loading Ready Fan Draft.

Postby AdmiralMemo » 28 Feb 2015, 23:31

Dragon Bell Monk, honestly, I just picked a white card in the pack because I was still kind of reacting to Adam and others panicking and jumping the gun. Also, I didn't really read Executioner the first go-through. Didn't really see it as removal while looking. Guide... Yeah... I thought I needed fixing at that point for some reason. And Formless Nurturing? I don't know why I did that, honestly.
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Re: Loading Ready Fan Draft.

Postby Under_Score » 01 Mar 2015, 00:20

Hm... So I wanted to post my deck, but it seems MtGO just isn't holding on to my draft decks anymore. Is anyone else having issues viewing their recent draft decks in the collection, or is the issue on my end?
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Re: Loading Ready Fan Draft.

Postby AdmiralMemo » 01 Mar 2015, 01:54

MtGO has a bunch of them out of order for mine, so it took some searching for me. It's probably there somewhere.
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Re: Loading Ready Fan Draft.

Postby Lord Hosk » 01 Mar 2015, 06:30

You were 100% in the right colors your pack two and three only a couple of choices were deck changes. I think you were just really flustered pack one because people jumped early which is understandable.


This is just what I would have picked.

Pack 1
1 General
2 Executioner or write into being
3 Probably hunt the week, I dont like green dragon.
4 Grim contest (set into abzan) or Land
5 Hunt the week
6 Mystics or Grave strength
7 Abzan Kir-Guard
8 Emissary or cut land.
9 return to the earth for the board
10 Nothing? Foil Fruit? Nothing is getting played
11 formeless nurturing

Pack 2
1 Sorin
2 Blood flies
3 Land
4 Abzan Guide
5 injury
6 Highland Games or Land
7 bloodsucker
8 hooting mandrils
9 roar.
10 naturlize
11 smoke teller

Pack 3
1 death dealer
2 Boon
3 Palace, bloodflies, or grizzly
4 Feat
5 hateblade
6 Boon
7 land
8 Bears companion
9 Awaken the bear
10 cut bring low
11 witness
12 Kin tree
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Re: Loading Ready Fan Draft.

Postby AdmiralMemo » 01 Mar 2015, 10:41

Thanks everyone. From all the different suggestions... I think I just made a couple of bad picks, and a couple of bad deck-building decisions... And that was the make-or-break for me. I'm kind of upset that just 2 or 3 bad cards out of 40 can kill you in Draft.
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Re: Loading Ready Fan Draft.

Postby Duckay » 01 Mar 2015, 14:02

AdmiralMemo wrote:I'm kind of upset that just 2 or 3 bad cards out of 40 can kill you in Draft.


I find a useful way to look at it to be the following: in a FKK deck, you probably only have 22 or 23 spells (the rest being land). Now assuming that 2 or 3 of them are bad cards, that means that between 9% and 13% of your spells are bad.

Suddenly having "only two or three" bad cards in your deck looks like a much bigger problem.

This is not to say that a good deck can't survive with a couple of mediocre cards, or that you can't sometimes get past the bad cards if you also have some excellent cards, but that's more or less the reason why bad cards make your deck suffer that much.
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Re: Loading Ready Fan Draft.

Postby Omnicrat » 06 Mar 2015, 11:41

I can't fan draft tomorrow, anyone want to/willing to have an improptue draft with me today?
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Re: Loading Ready Fan Draft.

Postby Omnicrat » 06 Mar 2015, 11:59

If not today, then sunday.

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