Loading Ready Fan Draft.

A place to talk about standard, casual, limited and everything in between.
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AdmiralMemo
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Re: Loading Ready Fan Draft.

Postby AdmiralMemo » 05 Apr 2015, 02:43

Duckay wrote:Why could you only reliably count on 4 mana ever? That confuses me. Also the 2/2 that you get from Skywise Teachings is a little better than a bear, as it also has flying. (Before you ask, yes, the flying is relevant because they can block creatures that perhaps you otherwise couldn't, and can attack into a board that sometimes you otherwise can't.)

Look, Memo, I understand the inclination to defend the choices you made. However, I have to ask. When you posted the pools and asked what you were doing wrong, did you want us to give advice, or did you just want us to pat you on the back? Because we can offer advice but that doesn't mean anything unless you're willing to listen and take it on board.
I'm just going by my history of playing MtGO. Sometimes, I never draw a 5th land by the time I'm dead. Sometimes, I'm already winning by the time I draw my 5th land, which makes it basically a bad card, where it would be better to draw a combat trick. And sometimes, by the time I draw my 5th land, we're already at parity, in which case, I'm in topdeck mode. Either when dead, winning, or topdecking, land is not what I want to draw.

I mean, yeah, many games I do eventually get more than 4 mana, sure. But I don't want to rely on waiting for a land to cast a hand full of 3 or 4 5-drops. My deck shouldn't be built around the high-drops. It's only ever been a rare game where I've never gotten to 4. Like 95% of my games, I can get to 4 pretty easily. I can't say that about 5 or more.

OK, flying bears... That's a little bit better.

And regarding what I'm doing... No, I don't want you to pat me on the back. I don't need it, because I'm terrible clearly, and that would just be patronizing. I want to improve. That's why I posted the decks and asked for help. I am totally willing to listen to anything I understand. This is why I'm explaining my logic regarding why I did what I did. I want my decisions critiqued, but I need to understand where I went wrong.

But what I'm hearing is "Oh you should do this, this, and this, instead of that, that, and that." That doesn't help me. I'm sick of hearing people say things like "Lens of Clarity is trash." or "Fog is a bad card." without explaining either why that is the case.

There has been good advice I understand, such as:
Duckay wrote:Maybe you would have been better off sticking to 2 colors, or only a small splash, because with no dual lands in DTK
That works. I understand that. I thank you for it. You didn't just say "You should've gone with 2 colors" and leave it at that. You explained that I didn't have fixing to help me cast stuff, and I can work that into my stream of logic in the future.
On the other hand, there's advice like:
MowDownJoe wrote:Out goes Hand, Coat, Glee, and Awakening. In goes Scribe, Sidisi's Faithful, Sight Beyond Sight, and... Temporal Trespass?
This doesn't help me know why I should remove those specific cards, or why I should add in those other cards. I can surmise that I remove the first four because they're the black cards, but why not also remove Reach? You've tried to start explaining the Scribe, and we can work on that, and I understand SBS, but Sidisi's Faithful? It blocks, but I've been told that cards similar to it, like Guardians of Meletis are not "good blockers." The exploit makes you sac something to bounce? You don't get your thing back, and they do. That doesn't seem good to me.
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Re: Loading Ready Fan Draft.

Postby Duckay » 05 Apr 2015, 02:52

Sometimes people fall into the trap of using shorthand to explain that they think a card is unplayable or not very good because it seems apparent to them that it's the case so they don't think that other people don't see it.

I wouldn't know where to start, but if you ask me directly I can probably tell you why certain cards are good / bad. At least, to the best of my ability. I'm not the oracle of Tarkir.

Do you know why Lens of Clarity and Fog are bad cards now, or would you like me to start there?
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Re: Loading Ready Fan Draft.

Postby AdmiralMemo » 05 Apr 2015, 03:01

Lens of Clarity doesn't advance the board state. You get to see your next draw, but you don't actually get it. And you can see your opponent's morphs, but it isn't actually advancing the board state any.

Fog is only good in two situations: breaking a stalemate if you think you can race better or swinging for lethal. In all other cases, the best it's doing is delaying things for a turn, and other cards do more than that.

This is what I understand to be the case, and I pretty much get it, if that's correct.
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Re: Loading Ready Fan Draft.

Postby korvys » 05 Apr 2015, 03:05

AdmiralMemo wrote:
korvys wrote:Looting is very good, if it fits your game plan. Slowing things down while you wait for a dragon? Turn all those early, now useless creatures, and excess land into new cards. And at 1 mana, it's cheap, too. You can play it on 3, loot and play a morph on 4.
Yeah, but you're throwing cards away when you do that... Cards that you could actually play...

Maybe it's just my mindset of never liking to throw anything away, in any context... I'm a bit of a hoarder, though nowhere near as bad as the ones on TV.

Say the game goes... 13 turns. That means there were 20 cards in your deck you never drew, and couldn't play. You're effectively throwing them away by wanting to hold to the cards you have. And I'd not tell you to throw away cards you can play, just ones that aren't that useful. A 2 drop on turn 7 isn't that useful. Your 8th land isn't that useful. Your 6 drop isn't that useful if you are still trying to hit your 4th land.
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Re: Loading Ready Fan Draft.

Postby MowDownJoe » 05 Apr 2015, 05:10

AdmiralMemo wrote:On the other hand, there's advice like:
MowDownJoe wrote:Out goes Hand, Coat, Glee, and Awakening. In goes Scribe, Sidisi's Faithful, Sight Beyond Sight, and... Temporal Trespass?
This doesn't help me know why I should remove those specific cards, or why I should add in those other cards. I can surmise that I remove the first four because they're the black cards, but why not also remove Reach? You've tried to start explaining the Scribe, and we can work on that, and I understand SBS, but Sidisi's Faithful? It blocks, but I've been told that cards similar to it, like Guardians of Meletis are not "good blockers." The exploit makes you sac something to bounce? You don't get your thing back, and they do. That doesn't seem good to me.

Well, yeah, when you cut out the context, that sounds like meaningless advice. But I could've easily done the same with your post to make it seem like you're unwilling to learn. I don't, because that's not a nice thing to do. Let's look at the entirety of my advice:

MowDownJoe wrote:For the sealed pool, I think your issue was trying to go a solid 3 colors without any fixing. Splashing black for the Necromaster and the Reach is fine, but that Zephyr Scribe in the board sticks out like a sore thumb. So, yeah. Out goes Hand, Coat, Glee, and Awakening. In goes Scribe, Sidisi's Faithful, Sight Beyond Sight, and... Temporal Trespass? I don't know what that last card should be, but I don't want the curve to be too top-heavy. Maybe just land #18 to help facilitate the splash.

So, let's break it down. I point out that the issue is you running hard into 3 colors without the appropriate mana fixing. I'm ultimately fine with a splash of black for the Reach (fine piece of removal) and Necromaster (bomb). I, as you surmised, suggest removing the rest of the black cards for some decent blue cards.

Now as for not explaining why I chose the cards I did... Well, I feel like I have to teach you some fundamental principles of the game, and I know I don't have the patience to teach people. I see problems, and I fix them. Now, it's fine to ask "why", and I'll try to explain as best I can if you give me a chance. So, let me do that, now:
Zephyr Scribe: Looting is a very useful ability. Being able to ditch excess lands or spells that you are a long way away from casting is very useful. And it trades with morphs, if you need to. A 2 power guy for 3 mana is okay, if unexciting. The looting plus the untap ability are what make this great, really.
Sight Beyond Sight: Well, you said this was your last cut, so I doubt you need much convincing. It digs you 4 cards into your deck and gets you two cards. Not that bad.
Reach of Shadows: It kills things. Nuff said.
Sidisi's Faithful: This is where my inability to teach catches up with me. What makes cards like Unsummon good is that it slows down the game for opponent. They have to spend time replaying the thing you bounced, and that thing can't attack with it the turn they do that. And it gets it out of the way so you can get in some damage. 99% of the time, Sidisi's Faithful is just Unsummon. And that's fine. But there's that 1% of the time where you know you're playing a deck that wants you dead fast, and playing it as a turn 1 blocker will give you a bit of breathing room. Then, since Exploit is a thing, you can throw it away later for exploit. To go too much further would be a whole diatribe on tempo, and I know I'm terrible at explaining things like that. Thankfully, Reid Duke writes a great column on DailyMtG.com that teaches a lot of interesting principles of the game called "Level One". I would recommend it if you want to learn more about little bits of theory that will help you improve your play. (Hell, I've learned things from that column.)

[edit:] typo
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Re: Loading Ready Fan Draft.

Postby ZePancakes » 05 Apr 2015, 05:24

As previously mentioned, three colours is quite difficult to consistently run well and lack of certain card advantage pieces (anticipate, write into being, etc) will give you those moments of praying that you draw the right type of land.

May I ask, did you consider GW? I understand the allure of the dragonlord, but I notice a decent pool of green creatures with removal (Hunt the weak and Epic Confrontation, Pinon Feast) and indirect removal (Gift, advantage) which I find the Esper iteration lacks.

In your green pool you have a good creature base that provides early game pressure while curving out to strong green threats like the elk and surrak. It also gives you the creatures needed for your green-based removal.

Green and white are allied colours: there is added synergy between them due to GW being one of the clans. Also GW supports early game creatures with 'upgrades' in the form of +1/+1 counters

The fight cards alone remove the need for the black splash and I find that splashing for Necrogen Dragon is a tad greedy when you can have consistency instead.

But, should you want to, green also provides more avenues to splash a colour through sheltered aerie or explosive vegetation. (Whilst I still am cautious to the idea of three colours in DTK, there is a argument to splash blue for the dragonlord only and even then I am still hesitant.)

I hope most of what I've said makes sense Memo and if there is a certain point you want clarification I am happy to oblige.
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Re: Loading Ready Fan Draft.

Postby JWiley129 » 05 Apr 2015, 18:46

So this is my first post on the forums, so hi all!

Anyways, this was my Sealed deck from the DTK Prerelease!

Sorry it's so large, I can't figure out how to resize it.
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I went Silumgar and played against three Atarka decks and one Kolaghan deck. I was a little bummed about my matchups, since they all played similarly to each other. Either way I went 4-0 through the field just spewing out value. Sidisi is just as good as she reads, and the double Ultimate Price was REALLY nice to have. While it can't hit the gold dragons I was less concerned with them because of my Acid-Spewer dragon.

Also, Illusory Gains screwed with my opponents each time I resolved it. It's not Mind Control, but it doesn't need to be.
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Re: Loading Ready Fan Draft.

Postby JWiley129 » 11 Apr 2015, 19:16

Here is my deck from today's Fan Draft!

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If you look closely you'll see Sarkhan staring at you from the SB. Well he was my first pick, followed by Twin Bolt and Draconic Roar, but then nothing else that was Blue or Green. So I moved into White and got somewhat rewarded. The deck went 2-1 only losing to Adam "Swagbats" Savidan and his sicker RW deck. The main card that differentiated his deck and mine was Dragon Fodder, which I passed to take the removal.
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Re: Loading Ready Fan Draft.

Postby hascow » 11 Apr 2015, 19:27

I call my deck from the Fandraft tonight "I heard this format was about Dragons":

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I was hard RG after P1P1 foil Atarka, had the monuments to splash either W or B going into Fate Reforged, then got passed a Mastery of the Unseen, and went in on the white. It was pretty successful as I went 3-0 with 3 sweet matches. I even lost a game while my board was 6 4/4 flying dragons. Lose Calm is pretty good if you also have an FRF Dromoka, as it turns out.
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Re: Loading Ready Fan Draft.

Postby AdmiralMemo » 11 Apr 2015, 19:33

"The Deck That Reached Too Far": 0-3

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Re: Loading Ready Fan Draft.

Postby MowDownJoe » 11 Apr 2015, 19:47

Apparently, Memo and Adam switched minds. Memo was taken over by ZA GREED. (Though I do see a good R/W deck in that pool.)

So, yeah, if you want to follow along with my draft while I try to edit the video and upload it to YouTube, here's the thing on this site called RareDraft. And after you're done there, you can look at the deck I went 3-0 with:
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Re: Loading Ready Fan Draft.

Postby Omega Lairon » 11 Apr 2015, 20:37

Went 1-2 with these bad boys:
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Might have done a little better if I had any clue how to actually play blue... it's very contrary to my usual R/G styles. Still, managed to throw together a few decent rebound / prowess combos, so could've been worse.

Started off unsteady in Game 1 against CHS_FutureGazer. I had the gameplan, but none of the islands needed to get me there... and going up against a strong, speedy deck made the slow start costly. Game 2 was better - with air threats and rebounded spells coming together to do the damage for a victory in the air. I was feeling pretty good about game 3 too, with a similar "get in with flyers" strategy... a strategy ultimately undone by having almost the entirety of my aggression AND defence taken out of combat with a single strike.

I feel like I spent most of the day's good luck taking on Serinde in round 2. My opening hand for game 1 was... well, pretty bad with only a modest payout. My troops were outnumbered and outclassed for a while, but a fortunate run of spells kept it mostly even. There was a fun turn in there where a small-ish creature got "Blessed Reincarnation"-ed into a 4/4 dragon, and then again into Yasova... but other spells kept things in check long enough to win. Similar luck followed through into the next game, where I managed to pull a run of dragons seemingly from nowhere, and with no hard counters to speak of, they ruled the skies.

Things went downhill pretty quickly against Jwiley129 in round 3. I fell back on my old habit of holding a "slow but promising" hand, which didn't pay off, and I got steamrolled by the early aggression. The less said about game 2 the better though... it's extremely rare to get anything but a tragic ending after mulling to 4, and that's exactly how it went down. The only highlight from that particular train-wreck was that at least it was over quickly. Still... I've had worse luck with this game, so I can't complain that much.

One last thing though - in the grand tradition of pulling ultra-rare, crazy busted cards...

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...I'm pretty sure he's tournament legal.
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Re: Loading Ready Fan Draft.

Postby AdmiralMemo » 11 Apr 2015, 22:22

I've been wondering if anyone would be interested in a FanDraft at a reasonable hour instead of Balls O'Clock at night.
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Re: Loading Ready Fan Draft.

Postby Antitonic » 12 Apr 2015, 00:46

I might be, depending on when it works out to be. As it is, it works out about midday on a weekend. By that time, I've been at work for a few hours.

So if there's enough interest for a alternate timeslot draft (more Euro-friendly maybe?), I'd be tentatively in.
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Re: Loading Ready Fan Draft.

Postby korvys » 12 Apr 2015, 01:52

It's 11am Sunday for me, which is perfect, cause I've usually crawled out of bed by that point. But I could probably manange a few hours earlier or later if it's better for others.
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Re: Loading Ready Fan Draft.

Postby MowDownJoe » 12 Apr 2015, 05:06

I like the fan drafts being at 9 PM EST. Plenty of time for me to (theoretically) do important things before I get to goofing off for the day.
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Re: Loading Ready Fan Draft.

Postby Dix » 15 Apr 2015, 16:37

MowDownJoe wrote:I like the fan drafts being at 9 PM EST. Plenty of time for me to (theoretically) do important things before I get to goofing off for the day.


Basically the same here. Plus its a pretty 'open' slot for streaming with everyone I watch and/or chat mod for.
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Re: Loading Ready Fan Draft.

Postby AdmiralMemo » 15 Apr 2015, 17:35

So, what I'm reading is that consensus is that I'm the only one who's dead tired when these things come around.
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Re: Loading Ready Fan Draft.

Postby abanytar » 18 Apr 2015, 19:52

That moment when you have your opponent at 1 life, and all you have to do is make sure you don't sacrifice your Gudul Lurker to their Archfiend of Depravity.

And then you punt.

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Re: Loading Ready Fan Draft.

Postby Omega Lairon » 18 Apr 2015, 20:07

Well here we are again for another instalment of "Video Card Games With Video James Omega"

...I'm workin' on a better title, I swear -_-'

The cards:
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Felt a little uneasy to start with, since I had excellent choices for either black or U/W, and I started to doubt my chosen path when I saw lots of off-colour quality passing me by. But in the end I managed to grab enough quality red/black to form the kind of deck I was looking to put together - namely, lots of dash and combos there with.

Said dashing proved valuable early in the first game against Arakasi01 - with several low cost creatures hitting the field early. However, my opponent also had a good supply of low cost creatures, and the arms race began. Fortunately, I managed a fairly cheap board wipe thanks to Crux of Fate, and was able to send in a second wave to get the job done... but only just barely. Those spells were nasty, yo. Game 2 was much more one-way traffic, as my early aggression was met with next to no resistance due to some really unfortunate mana on my opponent's side. It did feel a little unfair, but terrible mana strikes all of us at some point... such is life on Tarkir.

My next opponent, SchmuckOfAllTrades, evidently had a similar draft experience to me, and was thus able to field a disturbingly familiar deck. Game 1 served as a good lesson for how the dash tactic is meant to be utilised, as my cheaper troops got utterly crushed by their superiors. I managed to grab one back in the second, thanks almost entirely to the recurring boosts from one of the Ambuscade Shamans making the most out of every counter-attack. Had a run of bad luck with the deciding match though, settling on a thoroughly awful mull to 5, and unlucky mana draws. Still, I at least put up a round or two of resistance.

In the last round against bainard656, I decided to hold onto a kind of slow and heavy opening hand... a gamble which almost didn't pay off as a wall of oppressive power bore down on my creatures. However, a well-timed intervention from Deathbringer Regent saved it for me, clearing out the defences and ruling the skies. Game two went very similarly - holding another top heavy hand and hoping to hold the line long enough to see it done. It almost went horribly badly, if not for Crux of Fate... but unlike round 1, I didn't have a second wave ready to follow up with. Ultimately, I was able to draw what I needed to stand my ground, and gradually grind away at those last remaining life points.

Final score: 2-1. Felt really good about how the deck came together and performed, and I only noticed one minor misplay which probably wouldn't have ended up mattering too much anyway.

Here's to next week!
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Re: Loading Ready Fan Draft.

Postby Wooglie » 19 Apr 2015, 03:22

AdmiralMemo wrote:So, what I'm reading is that consensus is that I'm the only one who's dead tired when these things come around.
I think the people in Europe agree with you as well.
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Re: Loading Ready Fan Draft.

Postby Sarah » 19 Apr 2015, 08:23

I'd be up for having these an hour or two earlier, though anything before 4pm PST wouldn't work too well for me. I'm also okay with the current time, though.
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Re: Loading Ready Fan Draft.

Postby whatthebus » 19 Apr 2015, 20:01

Got to do my first fandraft of the new format. 3-0 6-0 with RG.
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Deathmist Raptor is sweet, Temur Battle Rage is one of the best draws in this deck, and Atarka Efreet is the best efreet.

Interestingly, my first two matches were against Bant, with Hosk on G/W splashing for both Ojutais and Sarah on U/W splashing for Dromoka. Shalok was on W/B with a splash of red, but I never found out what it was for. After a super grindy game 1 where I recurred Raptor three times, game 2 went much faster. T2 Ainok Guide. T3 swing for 2, Raptor face up. T4 swing for 5, morph. T5 flip Atarka Efreet cast Temur Battle Rage for lethal. I don't know if there's a deck in the format that can beat that draw.
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Re: Loading Ready Fan Draft.

Postby AdmiralMemo » 25 Apr 2015, 19:41

Alright, so my draft could've gone better. I went 0-3... But... I think I'm finally drafting well? And I'm just playing poorly? Is this a solid deck?

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Now, if you watch my draft in the viewer, please note that 2 of my picks are misclicks and I didn't get to see what the rest of the pack was. The Typhoid Rats and I believe the Grim Contest are the misclicks.
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Re: Loading Ready Fan Draft.

Postby Duckay » 26 Apr 2015, 05:17

Everything at 5-drop and above is great. I'm not so sold on your early game. There's quite a few cards I would consider fine but not great (Dragon Bell Monk, Silkwrap, Updraft Elemental and Lightwalker), and a couple that I just don't think are worth a slot at all (Battle Mastery). I'm not sure on Dance of the Skywise, as I don't really rate that card but I see it a lot -- that might just be personal preference.

Some of those, like Lightwalker, are fine cards but not really suited to your deck. For instance, Lightwalker becomes a lot better if you have Bolster, because then it becomes an evasive threat -- with no ways to turn it on, it's basically just a vanilla 2/1, which some decks will be okay with (and look, sometimes you need to play medium 2-drops in order to get to excellent 6-drops), but your deck doesn't need 2 of, I don't think.

I'm jealous of your double Sunscorch Regent, though. That's a sweet card.

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