Khans of Tarkir Speculation

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Khans of Tarkir Speculation

Postby WP&P » 19 Jul 2014, 11:14

I keep listening to various podcasts and seeing videos that venture to say something or another about Khans, without ever mentioning what I think is fairly obvious. I did a search on these forums and found one post that suggests this - only one.

"Khans" were the leaders of the Mongols.

China erected a big old wall to try to keep out the Mongols.

And in M15 we're getting references to "walls" again, after a long "defender" dry spell.

I'm pretty sure that Khans is going to have a "walls matter" theme to it, and since I am an architect by trade I think I am going to have fun putting up some walls. But, just how are walls going to become cool? Last year we had a good idea that we were going to see "enchantments matter" in the Theros block, but until Bestow was revealed, did we have any real expectation for how they were going to achieve it?

So, are there any theories on how walls are going to get built?
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Re: Khans of Tarkir Speculation

Postby susu.exp » 19 Jul 2014, 12:13

Richard Garfield at some point designed a card type that worked like equipment for lands. I could see that representing defensive structures - either animating lands into defenders, or giving static boni.

A lot of speculation goes into this being the wedge set, i.e. Bizarralara, but there's little in M15 to seed it. There are some elements that span an enemy colored pair (White and black have a subtheme of lifegain/lifeloss matters, Red and Blue have "Artifacts matter" cards), but it's not that pronouced. If anything I could see the factions led by the Khans based on enemy color pairs, with the painlands setting up fixing for these.

The artifacts matters subtheme could tie in with "Equipment for Land".
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Re: Khans of Tarkir Speculation

Postby Utilitarian » 19 Jul 2014, 12:16

Darksteel Garrison? Fortifications? Interesting idea.
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Re: Khans of Tarkir Speculation

Postby ForOhFor Error » 19 Jul 2014, 12:47

Hoping for that reprint of Great Wall.
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Re: Khans of Tarkir Speculation

Postby Kapol » 19 Jul 2014, 14:23

I feel like the Wall thing was a cycle rather than a hint at Khans. Each color had a 'Wall of X' at uncommon. Besides red, but that was due to the reprint being at common already.

Some general guesses that isn't really based on the 'core' of the set:

-I feel like this might be the first time we see a triple large-set block (as far as I'm aware). The two blocks before Theros had two, then Theros dropped back down to one. They mentioned doing a unique block structure, and I feel that might be it. It'd lead to limited being something that could completely change from set to set. Potentially trying to show that events are occurring over a vast span of years. Theros apparently happened over a decently wide period of time, but it didn't -feel- like it because everything was a progression.
-I feel like that equipment is going to pop up and have a number of cards that care about them. This is partly due to the subject matter, and partly due to the 'artifacts matter' sub-theme.
-Contraptions will not make a reappearance. :(

Personally, I'm on the fence if wedges will play a part or not. I wasn't around for shards, but it seems like it'd be awkward to have it set up that way. Though I'm wondering if they do a large-large-large and try to show a large amount of time passing, they don't have the sets evolving with the plane. Maybe start with mono-color, then more to particular color combinations, then the full wedge.
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Re: Khans of Tarkir Speculation

Postby ForOhFor Error » 19 Jul 2014, 17:32

Apparently they don't do multicolor-themed sets less than four years apart now. Wedges could be done without a multicolor theme, but it wouldn't be as good as it could be. I don't think wedges are going to be the focus.
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Re: Khans of Tarkir Speculation

Postby susu.exp » 19 Jul 2014, 17:38

The announcement says that the block will be LSL like Zendikar.

A world where dragons are revered but gone - who wants to bet against dragons coming back in the spring set? And since Sarkhan is in, and dragons are important: New Nicol Bolas?

Shards wasn't that bad, but they learned that multicolor requires more fixing than they put in there (hence the basic land slot taken up by gates in DM). In particular since as Alara block went on it went towards 5-color. I think they could deal with these issues better, now, but I'm not sold on this being the block.
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Re: Khans of Tarkir Speculation

Postby Duckay » 19 Jul 2014, 17:40

LSL? I'm drawing a blank on that term.

ETA: never mind, I got there. I forgot that had been confirmed.
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Re: Khans of Tarkir Speculation

Postby susu.exp » 19 Jul 2014, 17:43

large-small-large
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Re: Khans of Tarkir Speculation

Postby MowDownJoe » 19 Jul 2014, 20:00

susu.exp wrote:A world where dragons are revered but gone - who wants to bet against dragons coming back in the spring set? And since Sarkhan is in, and dragons are important: New Nicol Bolas?

More likely, the revival of Ugin. Sarkhan has been hearing Ugin's voice in his head, and his art from the "Where are all the planeswalkers now?" article they showed before M15 previews had Sarkhan with white wispy eyes. And they'll make his personality essentially the anti-Bolas.

[edit:] Also, I apparently mis-remembered the article. Ugin bit still stands, though.
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Re: Khans of Tarkir Speculation

Postby Volafortis » 20 Jul 2014, 01:35

Ooh, that would be neat. I'd love to see Ugin.
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Re: Khans of Tarkir Speculation

Postby Lord Hosk » 20 Jul 2014, 05:55

I suspect its going to be LSL S...

Yes! Surprise 4th set in the block!

Someone at Pax asked "will we ever see a 4 set block again?" and everyone on the panel had this panicked look and looked at each other. Then the "moderator" said, yeah we might see that soon, take out a core set or something"
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Re: Khans of Tarkir Speculation

Postby Volafortis » 20 Jul 2014, 19:57

LSLS isn't a new block structure, though, that's what Lorwyn/Shadowmoor was.

I wouldn't completely count it out as a 4-set block, but there's certainly going to be something else there, since WOTC has said that Khans block has a unique block structure, meaning something we haven't ever seen before.
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Re: Khans of Tarkir Speculation

Postby Utilitarian » 20 Jul 2014, 22:26

Well apparently Khans isn't a multi-coloured format block. Was confirmation I have heard, from Rosewater that they want to go at least 2+ years between full multicolour blocks.
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Re: Khans of Tarkir Speculation

Postby AdmiralMemo » 20 Jul 2014, 23:45

It's going to be SLSL. ;)
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Re: Khans of Tarkir Speculation

Postby Lurkon » 21 Jul 2014, 00:51

AdmiralMemo wrote:It's going to be SLSL. ;)

Clearly it's going to be LSSSSSSSSSSSSS... Just small sets forever. The draft format is the last two small sets and the single large set.
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Re: Khans of Tarkir Speculation

Postby Lord Hosk » 21 Jul 2014, 16:19

No no... the draft format will start LLL, then go LLS, LSS then the drafts get longer and longer. by the end of the block you are building a deck out of 14 packs of cards. In order to keep their DCI status stores will have to still run drafts for $15 or less.

8 man drafts now take 6 hours, then you get 20 minutes for deck building.
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Re: Khans of Tarkir Speculation

Postby Lurkon » 21 Jul 2014, 19:32

Lord Hosk wrote:No no... the draft format will start LLL, then go LLS, LSS then the drafts get longer and longer. by the end of the block you are building a deck out of 14 packs of cards. In order to keep their DCI status stores will have to still run drafts for $15 or less.

8 man drafts now take 6 hours, then you get 20 minutes for deck building.

But the block never ends. Small sets forever.
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Re: Khans of Tarkir Speculation

Postby Lord Hosk » 22 Jul 2014, 06:53

but they are actually one huge set. There are 150 Mythics 530 Rares, 800 uncommons and 1200 commons. Each pack is set up just like a normal set pack but instead of pulling from a limited pool they pull from that massive pool The only difference set to set are the tokens and the basic lands.
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Re: Khans of Tarkir Speculation

Postby jkefka » 22 Jul 2014, 11:14

I'm thinking it'll be a draft format that goes L1L1L1, SL1L1 or L1L1S, then L2L2S. In other words, both the starting and finishing large sets will be drafted with the small set, but never together.
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Re: Khans of Tarkir Speculation

Postby Ricardo Anderson » 22 Jul 2014, 13:15

Well, Khans of Tarkir, feels to me like its gonna be an important set for red and Black.
Dragons will show up, one way or another, and if Ugin would reappear that would be spectacular!
Also, what do you guys think about the panther-like-leonin at the center of the art-promo illustration for Khans?
New creature tipe?
Just a different looking Leonin?
Also, it looks like a set that could bring back the flanking and the war cry mechanics, flavour wise, but I don't think that will happen.
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Re: Khans of Tarkir Speculation

Postby bainard » 22 Jul 2014, 19:27

This has been bouncing around in my head for a while, so I figure I'll put it here and see if anyone else thinks this makes sense.

The thing is, Mark Rosewater has used the phrase "Unique block structure" before. In his second article on the design of Avacyn Returns, (now unfindable on the rebuilt site, alas) he talked about how Innistrad was originally supposed to be part of a block with a "unique block structure", namely it was supposed to be a stand alone third set following a two-part mini-block which took part on another world. To make a long story short, they moved Innistrad to the fall block to match with Halloween, and then it blew up and they put the two-set block back on the shelf.

I think Khans is that two part block. Given their planning and development cycle, Khans is either their first or second chance to revisit that planning work. They originally filed for 2 trademarks for this set, "Warlords of Takir" and "Dragons of Takir". Warlords was kicked back by the trademark office, and they then filed for "Khans of Takir", yet Khans is the first set in the block.

That, of course, leads to the question, "What's the third block?" Given how hard they've started hammering "Elspeth's story isn't over", could it be a quick return to Theros?
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Re: Khans of Tarkir Speculation

Postby Duckay » 22 Jul 2014, 19:42

While that does make some sense, I doubt it would be a return to Theros so soon: seems to me that they would want to wait a bit longer on that.
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Re: Khans of Tarkir Speculation

Postby susu.exp » 22 Jul 2014, 20:14

The article referred to:
http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/Magazi ... ily/mm/191

Now, I don't think "Elspeth's story isn't over" means anything with regards to the new block. I think they were saying "I doubt we've seen the last of the Phyrexians" ever since Urza block and the next time they came back was Scars. If there ever is a Raturn to Theros block, a returned Elspeth brought back by Erebos and sporting black would seem like a nice masthead. But they do plan things out in the long run - the idea for a return to Ravnica was born pretty much while Ravnica was Standard legal.
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Re: Khans of Tarkir Speculation

Postby Lurkon » 22 Jul 2014, 22:07

A brief glance at how one of our current catastrophes is shaking up? Phyrexian taint spreading through planeswalkers to a new world real quick? An Eldrazi ravaged Zendikar? There are plenty of things Magic could explore in a single set.
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