The KHAAAAAAAAAAAAANs of Tarkir Spoiler Thread

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Re: The KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANs of Tarkir Spoiler Thread

Postby Volafortis » 11 Sep 2014, 01:46

Yeah, Khans occurs in the present. I believe Fate Reforged will be the set in the past, with the third set returning to a wildly different present day.
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Re: The KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANs of Tarkir Spoiler Thread

Postby Prospero101 » 11 Sep 2014, 07:17

If the third set isn't "Back to the Future" I will be very disappointed.
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Re: The KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANs of Tarkir Spoiler Thread

Postby Kapol » 12 Sep 2014, 11:42

Full spoilers are up. White, as seems usual anymore, seems nuts. Blue seems eh. The rest of the colors range from good to very good.
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Re: The KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANs of Tarkir Spoiler Thread

Postby ElFuzzy » 12 Sep 2014, 12:55

Hands down, favorite cards is Altar of the Brood.
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Re: The KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANs of Tarkir Spoiler Thread

Postby RedNightmare » 12 Sep 2014, 13:27

I am very disappointed in the selfmill options for Sultai. Only Scout the Borders seems good enough.
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Re: The KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANs of Tarkir Spoiler Thread

Postby AdmiralMemo » 12 Sep 2014, 13:44

So... Which charms do people like? I like Temur Charm best, with Abzan and Jeskai coming in second and third.

Also, what are people's predictions on what drafting this will be like with so many tri-colored cards? The way I'm looking at it, I think I might pick a "guild" early and splash the third color, possibly fourth. Like, say I chose "Golgari" early, I could splash either way for Abzan or Sultai.
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Re: The KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANs of Tarkir Spoiler Thread

Postby korvys » 12 Sep 2014, 14:47

Yeah, if you pick an enemy coloured guild, you have 2 options. I'm going with Orzhov, to hopefully get into Abzan (best clan), or if not, then Mardu.
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Re: The KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANs of Tarkir Spoiler Thread

Postby WickedBoy6 » 12 Sep 2014, 15:38

I'm with Korvys. I'm going Orzhov, but instead, I plan to go Mardu first, then switch to Abzan - or, as I prefer, Dega and Necra - but that's mainly because of all the sweet, sweet Gobby action in KoT. Ankle Shanker, Goblinslide, Mardu Ascendry, Ponyback Brigade, Hordeling Outburst. Add that to the nice M15 Goblin package, and there might be a sweet Standard Goblin deck in all of that.
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Re: The KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANs of Tarkir Spoiler Thread

Postby RadioshackRaider » 13 Sep 2014, 05:41

The fact that wiazards haven't yet revealed the Pre-release promos seems fairly smart. It feels like they're trying to avoid the problem that people weren't really picking the colours they wanted to play, and instead just chose the best colour for it's promo.
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Re: The KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANs of Tarkir Spoiler Thread

Postby ZePancakes » 13 Sep 2014, 05:48

I'll be going Abzan as there is a ton of synergistic card that can be built upon, and if I get Harden scales it will be even better :)
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Re: The KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANs of Tarkir Spoiler Thread

Postby RadioshackRaider » 13 Sep 2014, 06:02

I'm going Mardu purely because I haven't played red in pre-release since Ravnica. That and I don't really care for the other clans
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Re: The KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANs of Tarkir Spoiler Thread

Postby ElFuzzy » 13 Sep 2014, 08:02

RedNightmare wrote:I am very disappointed in the selfmill options for Sultai. Only Scout the Borders seems good enough.

Sultai Ascendency, Talgram's Scheming, Bitter Revelation,and Rakshasa's Secret have a bit of self mill. Also 90% of the draw power for Sultai seems to be draw and discard so that's probably where you're gonna get it
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Re: The KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANs of Tarkir Spoiler Thread

Postby Aaron9797 » 13 Sep 2014, 10:03

it never fails im always wrong; i thought a future sight card whip-spine drake which is a blue card with a white morph cost was getting reprinted and also they could complete a cycle of cards with off color morph cost. two more sets to go it could still come back
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Re: The KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANs of Tarkir Spoiler Thread

Postby RedNightmare » 13 Sep 2014, 10:03

Rakshasa's Secret is basically a Mind Rot with upside, so that could be good. Talgram's Scheming just sets up your draw, but doesn't net you a card, so it's kind of card disadvantage. Sultai Ascendency is a rare, so not really worth banking on getting it in limited. Bitter Revelation is pretty good, but a bit late.

I was hoping for something like Grisly Salvage, Satyr Wayfinder or Commune with the Gods. Something that nets you a card and still fills you graveyard early game. But they probably left such a card out to prevent Sultai from being to strong early game.
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Re: The KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANs of Tarkir Spoiler Thread

Postby Kapol » 13 Sep 2014, 11:38

RadioshackRaider wrote:The fact that wiazards haven't yet revealed the Pre-release promos seems fairly smart. It feels like they're trying to avoid the problem that people weren't really picking the colours they wanted to play, and instead just chose the best colour for it's promo.


I doubt that's the reason. There are 40 total promos available this time around. Each clan has 8 promos. So picking a clan to get an OP promo likely isn't going to work out as well. There may be some level of X clan is slightly better overall than x clan. But not to the major degree that the single promos had. I also think we can take educated guesses at what the promos will be. Most likely the other 7 unknown for each clan is going to be other in-clan rares.

So I'm thinking the main reason we haven't seen the promos yet is because, unlike normal, the promos aren't going to have alternate art. I'm thinking they might be foil date-stamped with nothing else special about them. Getting 40 different pieces of art for something like prerelease would be a lot of money for relatively little reward. It also would explain why the intro-pack rares are a different art than the pack version. The intro-pack rares are normally the same art as far as I know. Which says to me that the intro deck cards were initially going to be the five promos used for pre-release. But due to either realizing Ankle Shanker is busted in limited, or due to a lot of more serious players disliking the 'choose your wincon' nature the whole thing had, they changed it.

All that said, these are just guesses. It could just be because they haven't revealed it yet. But we'll see.
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Re: The KHAAAAAAAAAAAAANs of Tarkir Spoiler Thread

Postby jkefka » 14 Sep 2014, 05:15

In terms of overall clan selection I suspect Mardu is going to be popular because it's essentially Borkdos from Dragon's Maze.

I'm going to be all about the bear-punching, though. Green is always my prerelease jam and Temur is some of my favorite limited cards ever.
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Re: The KHAAAAAAAAAAAAANs of Tarkir Spoiler Thread

Postby Kapol » 14 Sep 2014, 06:04

Temur is my choice to. We counter spells, we make big things, we try to fix the now to make dragons rule... what else is there?
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Re: The KHAAAAAAAAAAAAANs of Tarkir Spoiler Thread

Postby Utilitarian » 15 Sep 2014, 07:55

Abzan for me. I've always been a defensive player and Abzan fits just right.

Also, let's discuss the elephant in the room. "Become Immense" is a stupid name for a Giant Growth. It's like someone looked up a dictionary definition and made it a card name. I'm looking forward to the continuation of this cycle in "Kill a creature"

I'm totally pumped for prerelease!
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Re: The KHAAAAAAAAAAAAANs of Tarkir Spoiler Thread

Postby Kapol » 15 Sep 2014, 14:01

So, it seems to be official based on an unboxing video of the prerelease pack. The 'promos' from the prerelease are just going to be date-stamped versions of the normal card in foil. It's kind of disappointing honestly. I know getting 40 pieces of alt-art wouldn't be cost effective. But not having a real promo-looking card kind of feels... bland? I dunno. I'm still looking forward to the prerelease though.
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Re: The KHAAAAAAAAAAAAANs of Tarkir Spoiler Thread

Postby Tinfish » 15 Sep 2014, 18:22

I'm a little underwhelmed by Khans of Tarkir. Mechanically, a lot of it seems like a collection of bad ideas.

Firstly, the whole "wedge" clan system; it seems to me (granted my experience is many years out of date now, more on that later) that it's forcing strange and unnatural alliances between colours that usually have nothing to do with each other. The real problem though is that it's coming out of Theros, where the "devotion" mechanic promotes mono-coloured or bi-coloured decks at most. Won't a lot of "devotion" cards be suddenly sidelined, their use diminished by tri-coloured decks? Going from one extreme to the other seems like a strange design decision to me.

Secondly, a lot of the clan mechanics seem ... weird or counterproductive.
Outlast: I have trouble imagining the circumstances under which I have a creature available to attack and don't attack with it. Leaving it as a blocker, sure, but in that circumstance I want it untapped.
Prowess: could be useful in a spell-heavy deck I guess? Useful enough.
Delve: I really don't like this one. The mana costs of cards with Delve seem to be artificially inflated to justify the use of Delve ... but by the time you have enough cards in your graveyard to use Delve effectively, the card with Delve on it is either mostly useless ... or you're running a deck which wants to pull things out of the graveyard into play, in which case you don't really want to exile those cards!
Raid: This one I'll admit I like. The fact that it encourages you to attack, then cast creatures isn't necessarily a drawback, but I find it cognitively dissonant; when I learned to play, back in the dawn of time, it was the other way around.
Ferocious: This one I also like. It's simple, straightforward, and rewards HUGE STOMPY THINGS.
And then there's Morph. I really don't like Morph; as a mechanic it seems fiddly and unpleasant, requiring one to continually peek at the upturned card to check what its Morph cost is. Seems like it'd work better in Online than in the physical game.

Tarkir itself seems ... bland, to me, and Sorkhan is a religious maniac who let his fervor lead him into evil. What's the big deal with dragons? I see no problem with killing (and eating) fat flapping kleptomaniac lizards. Ravnica and Theros seem more evocative and interesting.

Overall, I think if I were creating a deck in Khans of Tarkir I'd go Temur; red/green with maybe a splash of blue for the multicoloured cards, and shove as much Raid and Ferocious in there as possible. Although Abzan doesn't seem bad, either ... honestly, if you can get enough mana fixing land, it seems like it might be a good candidate for a Sliver deck.

Your mileage may vary, of course. It's worth noting that I've recently picked up the game again after last playing in the previous millenium; so my knowledge is probably decidedly out of date.
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Re: The KHAAAAAAAAAAAAANs of Tarkir Spoiler Thread

Postby Duckay » 15 Sep 2014, 18:29

Now, I've only been playing for a very short time (since Innistrad), so I'm coming at this from a very different perspective. Personally, the only thing that I particularly disagree with that you said is about Raid; my experience with the game has not left me wth any cognitive dissonance about casting creatures post-combat. I find it more awkward to cast creatures pre-combat unless there is a compelling reason to do so (e.g. haste, pump effects, and so on).
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Re: The KHAAAAAAAAAAAAANs of Tarkir Spoiler Thread

Postby Volafortis » 15 Sep 2014, 18:46

Delve is a cost reduction mechanic. The costs always seem inflated. Go look at cards with Affinity or Convoke, you'll see they got the same treatment. It's a very powerful mechanic in an interactive format. I don't expect many of them to make the grade in standard, but in Modern or Legacy, it's a quite potent mechanic, because graveyards fill rather quickly.

I'll admit I'm not a fan of the implementation of Morph this time around. I wish they had toyed around with the mechanic more this time. All we have so far that uses the mechanic interestingly is the mythic Phoenix, and the cycle of "Reveal a colored card from you hand". Hopefully KTK was just them reintroducing the mechanic in a simple fashion, and we see it played with more later in the block. Fortunately, I feel morph can be pushed a bit once players remember how it works, because the barrier to entry is forcing you to cast a vanilla 2/2 for 3, which was bad even when Morph fist came out.

Wizards knew they were pushing devotion. They made 15 high profile mythics, a multi-mana tapping land, and several other cards with it. The fact that the two blocks around the mechanic don't support it seems like a good idea for balancing purposes.
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Re: The KHAAAAAAAAAAAAANs of Tarkir Spoiler Thread

Postby korvys » 15 Sep 2014, 18:56

It might just be because I read MaRo's blog, but I really like most of the mechanics. They have interesting decisions.

Delve is interesting because it's non-linear. With most mechanics, the cards all support each other, or at least benefit from being in a deck together. Delve requires you to make a decision. If you cast one delve spell, the next gets more expensive. Or you can delay casting the spell so you can use your mana instead of casting it using your yard, but maybe you never get to cast the next delve card anyway, so it was a waste, and you should have used them and spent your mana on something else.

Outlast is interesting as it basically says that if you're willing to take some hits, you can have far better creatures for the price.

Prowess is a bit weird. All the prowess cards are creatures. Obviously if your deck is good at triggering prowess, you want to play more prowess creatures, but the more creatures you put in, the worse your deck is at triggering them, which means the creatures are now worse again...

Raid is good, but less interesting. It's encouraging you to do what you should be doing anyway.

Ferocious seems fine.

Morph I like.

Most of this is a limited perspective, though.

I really like the flavour on everything though. The art looks awesome, the world seems interesting, and distinct from anywhere else.
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Re: The KHAAAAAAAAAAAAANs of Tarkir Spoiler Thread

Postby jkefka » 15 Sep 2014, 19:32

My read on Outlast is that you almost never actually use it. You take advantage of the +1/+1 counter clusterbuff with the other cards that put +1/+1 counters on things and go nuts that way. Maybe if you are in a big fat board stall with blockers to spare it becomes some kind of inevitable growth.

Raid is a very strong limited mechanic. Borkdos aggro is going to be one hell of a deck.

Prowess is cute for the reasons Korvys talked about. I like it a lot, in fact, there's a lot of interesting noncreature spell synergy. The ultimate form, as many people have pointed out, is drop Sarkhan, trigger all your prowess crap, Sarkhan goes dragon mode, and everything goes brutal aggro.

Delve is a constructed mechanic. Straight up. Maybe one or two delve cards can do work in a good limited deck built to support them, but it doesn't flourish in a limited environment. It is bonkers good in constructed and we're going to see a lot of it in modern and maybe even standard.

Ahh ferocious. Better Naya. It's derivative, it's repetitive, blah blah blah whatever. The ferocious cards they printed are brutally good, and 4 power is a very achievable number, and the set is well-designed to support it. Ferocious works in ANY green deck and it works very, very well. I'm a very green-heavy player in limited and to a lesser degree in constructed, and I see these cards and go "yeah, I can break the hell out of that."
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Re: The KHAAAAAAAAAAAAANs of Tarkir Spoiler Thread

Postby Kapol » 15 Sep 2014, 19:36

I dislike how people say Ferocious is like naya's mechanic. The only thing that really seems similar is caring about power. And even that's for entirely different reasons. Most of the Naya cards only care for making big creatures better. Ferocious only cares if you have the creature, and at that point it makes the spell or other creature itself better. There's a pretty big design difference besides the 'if power x or higher...'

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