The KHAAAAAAAAAAAAANs of Tarkir Spoiler Thread

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Re: The KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANs of Tarkir Spoiler Thread

Postby Kapol » 08 Sep 2014, 13:56

Keep in mind for the Duress thing that they will have a chance to cast an instant. So it has to be an enchantment, sorcery, artifact, or planeswalker. That's still good, but it's not going to hit everything.

As for the four damage... I don't know honestly. I feel like that's the best effect. And I feel like Stoke the Flames is better than it is. The versatility helps it. But the need for three specific colors hurts it. So we'll just have to see.


I'm kind of disappointed by just how control-y Temur has been so far. It's charm has Mana Leak, it has a non-creature hitting Force Spike that could be a hard counter, and it has the tap down spell. It seems like Jeskai wanted to be the control colors.
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Re: The KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANs of Tarkir Spoiler Thread

Postby jkefka » 08 Sep 2014, 14:09

Notably, many of the Temur control cards also work in Jeskai. I think that learning to ignore the watermarks is going to be a big thing with this set. The mono-color cards have a lot of synergy with all the clans they fit into. Even the two-color cards fit nicely into two clans by and large. I could see myself pretty comfortably running a four-color deck in some cases, or a two-color deck, and have it work out A-OK.
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Re: The KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANs of Tarkir Spoiler Thread

Postby Kapol » 08 Sep 2014, 14:26

I understand that. It just feels weird to me that they're based on that clan from a flavor perspective. It seems like the Sultai would be the most controlling clan to me, and the Jeskai are the 'blue' clan. So it seems odd to me that Temur gets the actual control as part of their clan with their keyword.

Now that we have a new 'refuge' cycle for common (which explains the extra land slots as well), I feel better about limited in general. I just worry this will mean that there will be too much fixing, taking away from actual playables. Like... I don't want to be the person who opens the 'all-land' pack in sealed. All 10 of the common fixers, 3 of the uncommon tri-color taplands, and a fetch as the rare (though that'd make it worth the pack alone), and then a basic and a tip card. I feel like that's going to be the reverse god pack.
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Re: The KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANs of Tarkir Spoiler Thread

Postby Under_Score » 08 Sep 2014, 14:29

Well, I know print runs are in "fight club" territory for WotC, but I have a feeling they might be coming into play to prevent that sort of land-pack. That said, the issue of the abundance of the cluestones in Dragon's Maze does have me worried about the same thing here.
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Re: The KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANs of Tarkir Spoiler Thread

Postby Kapol » 08 Sep 2014, 15:09

Someone on a reddit thread I made said that all packs have to have at least one card of each color. Is that actually true? I've never heard of that being the card. But I don't really know either.

In any case, someone else made the point that opening that pack in sealed would be pretty awesome. It'd basically say 'you can go 5-colors without having to worry too much about your manabase.' Seems fun at the worst. I mean, who doesn't want to open a pack and see this:

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Re: The KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANs of Tarkir Spoiler Thread

Postby Duckay » 08 Sep 2014, 15:52

I swear I remember seeing packs that were empty of a colour. Maybe I'm actually remembering packs with only one, not very good card in a colour.
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Re: The KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANs of Tarkir Spoiler Thread

Postby tamaness » 08 Sep 2014, 16:29

Kapol wrote:Someone on a reddit thread I made said that all packs have to have at least one card of each color. Is that actually true? I've never heard of that being the card. But I don't really know either.

Your source might not be a lying liar, but he's definitely mistaken. Packs can be absent colors; Wizards does their collation in such a way to try and ensure equitable distribution, but an all-land pack is certainly within the realm of possibility, as is an all {color} pack, and one with one of each card type, and each color.
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Re: The KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANs of Tarkir Spoiler Thread

Postby Kapol » 08 Sep 2014, 16:39

I didn't think it was the case. But, like Duckay, I wasn't sure. It was a situation where it's easy to think 'I thought there was a pack without color X, but... maybe that one card was just awful?'

(As a note, I fixed the colors on the bottom so they 'mixed' like the middle row. It also has the same start and end circle so they could make an infinite look. Here it is.)

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Re: The KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANs of Tarkir Spoiler Thread

Postby Lord Hosk » 09 Sep 2014, 06:56

You can most certainly get cards with one color being absent, its not frequent but it happens, more so now that wizards has tried to make it so that pack sorting is more difficult.

By packaging things in strait print runs it was relatively simple to open 5 or 6 packs and know exactly what was in a box and take all the money cards out and then pass the rest off to unsuspecting buyers. To combat this wizards has started to do more shuffling of things rather than just cut them as they come off the line and stack and wrap them.

It didnt used to be possible to get two of the same card in a pack, excluding a foil, now its possible to get two of the same uncommon, although its bordering on impossible since there are 60-100 cards going into those three slots.
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Re: The KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANs of Tarkir Spoiler Thread

Postby MowDownJoe » 09 Sep 2014, 08:33

tamaness wrote:Image

I now have a mancrush on Gavin Verhey.

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Re: The KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANs of Tarkir Spoiler Thread

Postby Kapol » 10 Sep 2014, 13:17

I'm not sure how I feel about Khans anymore. On the one hand, limited feels like it'll be good. On the other... everything is feeling dull to me to be completely honest. Maybe it's just because I can't feel joy anymore.
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Re: The KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANs of Tarkir Spoiler Thread

Postby Utilitarian » 10 Sep 2014, 13:22

Kapol wrote:I'm not sure how I feel about Khans anymore. On the one hand, limited feels like it'll be good. On the other... everything is feeling dull to me to be completely honest. Maybe it's just because I can't feel joy anymore.

I feel like it's just hard to see how things are going to come together in constructed. Which I think is a good thing! It's going to be a time of discovery and wild off the wall brews. Things look a little underwhelming in a lot of places but the power level is going down so dramatically with RTR leaving it's going to really expand the relevance space. So many decks right now are mostly RTR block cards, I wouldn't be surprised if we saw a lot of more fringe playable or even unplayable Theros block cards step into the light.

I think it's something that's not going to really display its full potential until its in our hands.
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Re: The KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANs of Tarkir Spoiler Thread

Postby Kapol » 10 Sep 2014, 13:25

The thing is... I don't care about constructed. There's just not a single card I'm really excited to play with. Maybe the new Temur khan. But even that just feels like Nylea with anti-counter tacked on.
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Re: The KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANs of Tarkir Spoiler Thread

Postby Under_Score » 10 Sep 2014, 13:35

Well, to be fair, with most spoilers being rares and mythics, the cards aren't really targeted for limited players as much. Once the full set is released and it's easier to see the overarching limited archetypes, there might be more to be excited about.
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Re: The KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANs of Tarkir Spoiler Thread

Postby jkefka » 10 Sep 2014, 14:23

There do seem to be a lot of cards that are high utility and do interesting things but not as many that I look at and say "I need a deck around that. I actually rather like that, it makes me think we're going to have a very deep and varied limited environment, and it's going to create some very powerful constructed archetypes.
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Re: The KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANs of Tarkir Spoiler Thread

Postby Kapol » 10 Sep 2014, 15:23

That's why I mentioned being excited for the limited environment itself. Seems like it'll be fun. I just dislike there isn't anything that really interests me in terms of particular cards like Brimaz, most of the gods, and so on.


So, Vorthos time. We learn from the latest Planeswalker Guide for Tarkir that Ugin seems to have originated on Tarkir too. That would explain why he is tied to Sarkhan (both from the same plane). It also mentions that he was vital to their ecosystem. This explains why the dragons died off. The dragons began their descent where they had so many problems, all of the things that allowed the clans to kill them all, likely when he was killed.

We learn that there is another 'now' that The One Who Whispers Twice (I believe it was the current person who holds that position) thinks is the right one. Given the Temur's aspect of awareness of the time stream, and the fact the one who feels that he needs to 'fix the stream' needs Sarkhan's help, it feels like that person is going to play some part in helping bring back Ugin. And, in turn, 'fix' the present to bring back dragons.

All that said, I'm just going by what I'm reading into it.
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Re: The KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANs of Tarkir Spoiler Thread

Postby Duckay » 10 Sep 2014, 15:55

I admit, I'm not real excited by Khans either. I wonder if it's about personal style?
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Re: The KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANs of Tarkir Spoiler Thread

Postby Volafortis » 10 Sep 2014, 17:23

Honestly, the creative for KTK is the only thing I'm excited for, plus the new Sarkhan. The rest of the set I'm pretty unimpressed by. which is nice, because it means sitting on boxes until the price jumps will be easy.

Definitely a "buying singles only" set. I think it's because I'm tired of seeing undercosted midrange threats galore, with no real cards potent enough to really be a solid answer. I think I'm really just realizing I hate Magic's development team. Design is doing a fine job, but development is costing everything that appeals to my playstyle out of my Spike-ish range of interest (A major Spike-Johnny, I like playing decks with unique playstyles, but only if the deck is any good. Midrange: the Gathering holds little to no interest to me).

That said, I'm super stoked for the story this block. The writing in Godsend was much better than in The Secretist, even though the ending was rather lazy, IMO. Hopefully the writing quality continues to trend upward, but I suppose I'll find out soon enough. I can't pass up a continuation on the Eye of Ugin storyline.
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Re: The KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANs of Tarkir Spoiler Thread

Postby Kapol » 10 Sep 2014, 17:31

Duckay wrote:I admit, I'm not real excited by Khans either. I wonder if it's about personal style?


That's likely it. I was kind of on the fence already due to it kind of feeling like "Khans of Westeros" to me. I also don't think I'm a huge fan of multicolor sets. I wasn't a huge fan of RTR block because of that. But at least they had something for everyone.

Volafortis wrote:Honestly, the creative for KTK is the only thing I'm excited for, plus the new Sarkhan. The rest of the set I'm pretty unimpressed by. which is nice, because it means sitting on boxes until the price jumps will be easy.

Definitely a "buying singles only" set. I think it's because I'm tired of seeing undercosted midrange threats galore, with no real cards potent enough to really be a solid answer. I think I'm really just realizing I hate Magic's development team. Design is doing a fine job, but development is costing everything that appeals to my playstyle out of my Spike-ish range of interest (A major Spike-Johnny, I like playing decks with unique playstyles, but only if the deck is any good. Midrange: the Gathering holds little to no interest to me).

That said, I'm super stoked for the story this block. The writing in Godsend was much better than in The Secretist, even though the ending was rather lazy, IMO. Hopefully the writing quality continues to trend upward, but I suppose I'll find out soon enough. I can't pass up a continuation on the Eye of Ugin storyline.


If you couldn't tell from my little Vorthos rant, I like a lot of the flavor of the block. The clans all seem fairly well fleshed out. Though the Jeskai feel like both one of the more focused on, yet also one of the more lazily designed, clans in my opinion.

I am looking forward to how it all ties together though.
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Re: The KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANs of Tarkir Spoiler Thread

Postby korvys » 10 Sep 2014, 17:33

So a friend told me there is speculation that Tarkir is actually an time-travel/alternate reality version of Zendikar, since that's where Ugin did all his Eldrazi trapping shenanigans, and so the third set, after Fate Reforged and the time travel stuff, will be a return to Zendikar.

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Re: The KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANs of Tarkir Spoiler Thread

Postby Kapol » 10 Sep 2014, 17:43

I kind of doubt it myself. That speculation is something I've heard a lot of on the subreddit without anything to back it up. I don't think it's that, as the latest Planeswalker's Guide talks a bit about the other 'now,' or alternate present, that I feel is likely to be what ends up happening in the set. The segment is:

Chianul is old for a Temur, around fifty. (Life tends to be short due to a harsh environment and nearly constant warfare.) He was the One Who Whispers Twice when Surrak assumed the mantle of Dragonclaw, and he has seen another version of the "now" in which dragons are ascendant, leading the humans. Sarkhan Vol spent some time with Chianul as a young man, learning about his visions, voices, and knowledge of dragons. The old shaman recently led a Wide Whisper that revealed what he called a "weak point in the multiple nows." He believes Sarkhan needs to accompany him to this location to assist with a ritual that will "heal the now."


Basically, it seems like Chianul is going to help Sarkhan go back and time and stop the dragons from dying off. I'm fairly confident that the reasons the dragons died off was due to Ugin dying. So stopping Ugin's death will cause the "now" Chinaul sees to come to pass (likely in the third set). Given he specifically sees dragons leading humans (something that I don't think was ever in Zendikar as a plane), I kind of feel like they're going to end up different places.

That said, I feel it is relevant to mention I think this will be how they reprint the enemy fetches. Given all of the ally fetches we're getting in Khans very specifically focus on dead dragons, I feel like those same places will now focus on enemy color pairs. But that's more just a guess than anything.

(And of course, as a note, I don't actually know any of this for sure. I'm going off limited knowledge of other sets, and what I've read about Khans so far)
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Re: The KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANs of Tarkir Spoiler Thread

Postby korvys » 10 Sep 2014, 17:50

Yeah, it seemed like just an excuse to speculate on the reprinting of the Zendikar fetches.
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Re: The KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANs of Tarkir Spoiler Thread

Postby Volafortis » 10 Sep 2014, 17:53

Nah, I think this block will just be the resurrection of Ugin via wibley-wobbley timey-wimey stuff.

EDIT: Also, looking at the set as a whole (or rather, as whole as it is spoiled so far), rather than as individual cards, I think I'm liking the set more now. It certainly comes together much better as a big picture than it is in small bits.
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Re: The KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANs of Tarkir Spoiler Thread

Postby WickedBoy6 » 11 Sep 2014, 00:00

Didn't they say that this set was supposed to take place in the past, anyway? Couldn't it theorhetically take place during the time Sarkhan, Sorin, and Ugin take the Eldrazi to Zendikar?

Flavor aside, I am SO happy Goblins are gonna be a thing again in Standard. I was glad to see stuff like Denizen, Rabblemaster, Kaboomist, and the Paragon, but I didn't think it had enough to really have that punch. Now with Ankle Shanker and Goblinslide, I see Standard Gobbies being viable again. :D
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Re: The KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANs of Tarkir Spoiler Thread

Postby Kapol » 11 Sep 2014, 00:05

I'm pretty sure this set isn't taking place in the past. They've made it very clear that Sarkhan is there after hearing Ugin's voice in his head. Sorin is there to look for Ugin to help him deal with the Eldrazi again. And they've mentioned that this is a time-travel situation. So it seems likely we'll go present, past, alt-present or something similar. Which also explains the big-small-big block.

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