Standard Discussion

A place to talk about standard, casual, limited and everything in between.
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LokiTheLiar
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Standard Discussion

Postby LokiTheLiar » 07 Apr 2015, 02:19

Couldn't find an thread for this, so I created one.

Do you play Standard? Do you think about getting into Standard? What are your thoughts on current metagame? What deck or decks are you running? Do you want to show off your new brew? Do you need some feedback on your deck? This thread is dedicated to Standard format and everything connected with it.
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Current decks:
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Modern - Death and Taxes
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LokiTheLiar
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby LokiTheLiar » 07 Apr 2015, 12:06

What do you guys think about Dragonlord Dromoka as a sideboard card in Abzan Midrange and Control lists? Do you think it's worth the slot?
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby steric hindrance » 07 Apr 2015, 12:33

It would all depend on what you would be boarding her in against. She's not great against aggro decks because of her mana cost. Against control, the "can't be countered" clause is nice, but generally they don't run as much permission as they do removal spells; this also diminishes the "can't cast spells during your turn" clause. That leaves midrange as a possible matchup, which it's decent against as a 5/7 flying lifelinker, but unfortunately runs against several good options, like Elspeth, Hornet Queen, and Ugin in G/W alone. Dromoka is a good card, but I don't know if she has a home in current Standard.
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby LokiTheLiar » 07 Apr 2015, 12:58

I was thinking about using her against the new RG Dragons Aggro deck with Thunderbreak Regents. She can stabilize you pretty well and in control matchups against deck that don't run Elspeth and Hornet Queen(UB Control and Esper Dragons Control) if left unaswered she can easily swing the game in your favour. She blocks both Silumgar, the Drifting Death and Dragonlord Ojutai. But the problems you listed can't be ignored. I totally forgot about the Hornet Queen, haven't seen her in my local meta for a while now.
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby LokiTheLiar » 19 Apr 2015, 12:04

After all the RG Dragons and Mono Red splashing green for Atarka's Command hype it seems that actually the new dominant deck in Standard meta is Esper Dragon/UB control splashing white. There were 2 copies of this deck at the TOP 8 of Pro Tour in Brussels last week and 5 identical copies in the TOP 8 of GP Kraków. One of them piloted by Alexander Hayne won the title. Will it be a similar situation to the one from KTK when Abzan dominated the metagame?
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby fantôme » 10 Jun 2015, 05:20

I have barely played any standard, and none at all with the current sets, (this will likely be made evident with what follows). But I have this here pile that I think has some cool interactions, I want to try it out:

Click to Expand
2 Artisan of Forms
4 Frost Lynx
3 Master of Waves
4 Illusory Angel
4 Omenspeaker
4 Ornithopter
4 Aqueous Form
4 Ensoul Artifact
4 Mirror Mockery
3 Retraction Helix
4 Darksteel Citadel
20 Island

sb.
4 Dissolve
4 Encase in Ice
4 Icy Blast
2 Kiora's Dismissal
1 Perplexing Chimera


Cloning Ensouled things doesn't work, because layers, but otherwise there's a bunch of interesting little combos going on: Ensoul 'Thopter/Citadel, 'Thopter & Angel, Frost Lynx & Mirror Mockery, Artisan & Aqueous Form, and Artisan & Mockery is... interesting.

What suggest you, runners?

edit: I somehow missed the obvious - Master of Waves & Mirror Mockery. Fixed.
Last edited by fantôme on 10 Jun 2015, 14:19, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby AdmiralMemo » 10 Jun 2015, 06:16

I play some Standard on MtGO and have been accused of running "Pro Tour" decks, when everything I've cobbled together is from draft winnings.
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby LokiTheLiar » 10 Jun 2015, 10:11

fantôme your list is actually really similar to a mono blue artifact/aggro list that regularly puts up top 8 finishes at FNM in my LGS.

I recently started thinking about giving up on playing Standard entirely, but I think I'll give it a couple more tries before actually stopping to play it. The meta is really stale right now, I got some bad luck in recent tournaments and I don't have as much time as I would like to test decks on a regular basic.

I really hope that Magic Origins shakes things up a little.
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby chetoos » 10 Jun 2015, 11:33

I was worried how I was going to update my deck, since everything but the basic lands are rotating after Battle for Zendikar, but then I remembered the third word of that block name, and realized that I was going to be just fine.
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby fantôme » 10 Jun 2015, 11:34

Oh neat, my pile-of-stuff is actually a thing.

With Wizards' upcoming changes to their release schedule and block structures, the meta should become a much more fastly evolving thing. Whether that evolution is actually interesting and diverse is verily down to set design, but honestly I feel that WotC have for the most part continually improved on making formats interesting and diverse from a players' perspective for some time now, and I'm optimistic that this will continue in the future.
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby square1 » 14 Jun 2015, 16:41

I actually just got back into standard since my FLGS is running regular events now. Built a GW Inspiring Call deck that I've done pretty well with so far:

Decklist - Click to Expand
Creatures: 20
4 Avatar of the Resolute
4 Sentinel of the Scale
4 Fleecemane Lion
3 Den Protector
1 Deathmist Raptor
2 Anafenza, Kin-tree Spirit
1 Daghatar, the Adamant
1 Abzan Falconer


Instants: 12
4 Dromoka's Command
4 Valorous Stance
4 Inspiring Call

Enchantments: 5
2 Bow of Nylea
3 Hardened Scales

Planeswalkers: 1
Ajani, Mentor of Heroes

Lands: 22
3 Windswept Heath
4 Blossoming Sands
8 Forest
7 Plains

Sideboard:
2 Citadel Siege (RG ramp)
1 Dromoka, the Eternal (RG Ramp)
2 Feat of Resistance (mono-red/esper dragons)
4 Mistcutter Hydra (esper dragons)
2 Surge of Righteousness (black warriors/mono-red)
1 Ainok Survivalist
1 End Hostilities
2 Hidden Dragonslayer (RG ramp)


Deck plays efficient guys, puts +1/+1 counters on them, protects them, and beats down. Inspiring Call is a back breaking for any opponent that relies on a turn 5 board wipe to stabilize.

Metagame at my store is over half RG/Naya ramp with Thunderbreak, Whisperwood, Atarka, Pulkranos, etc. My main issue is Whisperwood Elemental. My current plan is to cut End Hostilities and Survivalist from the board, move two Inspiring Call to SB, and add two more Abzan Falconer to the deck. I found if you can just go over the Elemental, it's less of a problem. I'm thinking about also splashing black for Anafenza the Foremost for graveyard hate against Den Protector and Haven of the Spirit Dragon.

I'd be grateful for any thoughts or feedback :)
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby LokiTheLiar » 15 Jun 2015, 03:35

Your deck looks cool, the +1/+1 counters shenanigangs decks always amazed me. You have a lot of cards in your sideboard for the RG ramp matchup, maybe you should move some of them to the mainboard if it's a popular deck in your meta?
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby square1 » 15 Jun 2015, 12:18

LokiTheLiar wrote:Your deck looks cool, the +1/+1 counters shenanigangs decks always amazed me. You have a lot of cards in your sideboard for the RG ramp matchup, maybe you should move some of them to the mainboard if it's a popular deck in your meta?


Thanks!
I'm considering moving the Hidden Dragonslayers to main. I can't maindeck Citadel Siege or Dromoka though as they're too slow in the control and mono-red matchup, though Dromoka at least makes them think for a second with Crux.
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby LokiTheLiar » 22 Jun 2015, 07:26

I'm so hyped for this new black sweeper -Languish. It will fit perfectly in my Espere Dragons deck, between Drown in Sorrow and Crux of Fate. For 4 mana it will almost always kill everything my opponent deployed up to turn 4.

EDIT: Oh, and also Clash of Wills? Thank you WotC, you succesfully brought my attention back to standard.
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby square1 » 01 Jul 2015, 14:09

So I've been thinking of trying Game Day for the first time after Magic Origins, but it's been a real struggle to figure out how to beat the current meta and how that'll shift once the new cards come out. I've brewed up a couple ideas and I'm curious if anyone else has thoughts about Origins game day..

The main things I'm trying to include in every brew are graveyard disruption to beat Haven and Den Protector, and some way to stop Rhino/Tasigur and Whisperwood. I think graveyard recursion is only going to get more prevalent with all the Lilianna reanimator support in Origins.


Temur midrange - Click to Expand
Creatures: 24

Sagu Mauler feels strong right now since it can't be spot removed and beats everything short of Dromoka or Atarka in a fight. Yasova/Leap/Xenagos combo seems fun.

4 Rattleclaw Mystic
4 Den Protector
4 Deathmist Raptor
4 Thunderbreak Regent
2 Yasova, Dragonclaw
2 Sagu Mauler
2 Surrak Dragonclaw

Instants: 10
4 Temur Charm
4 Stubborn Denial
2 Burn Away

Enchantments: 5
3 Evolutionary Leap
2 Xenagos, God of Revels

Lands: 23
4 Frontier Bivouac
4 Shivan Reef
4 Yavimaya Coast
4 Temple of Abandon
1 Nykthos
1 Haven of the Spirit Dragon
3 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Island



Jeskai Burn - Click to Expand
Spells: 36
No creatures means all those Cruxes and Ultimate Prices are dead draws. Volcanic Vision and Anger keep the board clear, and Anger and Burn Away keep the graveyard empty. Narset, Goggles, and Keranos burn your way to victory. Originally used Steam Augury in place of Dig since it can be copied with Goggles, but want the 8 mana spell to return with Volcanic Vision since that wipes everything typically played.

Planeswalkers: 2
2 Narset Transcendent

Instants: 24
4 Dig Through Time
4 Stoke the Flames
4 Burn Away
4 Wild Slash
4 Mind Swipe
3 Exquisite Firecraft
1 Learn from the Past

Sorceries: 5
2 Volcanic Vision
3 Anger of the Gods

Enchantments: 3
3 Keranos, God of Storms

Artifacts: 2
2 Pyromancer's Goggles

Lands: 24
4 Temple of Epiphany
4 Mystic Monastery
4 Shivan Reef
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Island
4 Mountain


Sideboard:
4 Negate //vs control
1 Anger of the Gods //vs goblins/elves
1 Exquisite Firecraft //vs control
3 Elspeth, Sun's Champion //vs RG/Abzan. maybe want the more expensive Ugin instead just as an answer to Erebos' Titan
2 Dragonlord Ojutai //vs RG
4 Deicide // vs Xenagos or Mastery of the Unseen (hasted Dromoka or multiple life gain flips can put the opponent out of reach)



Another idea I haven't fully fleshed out is Abzan Evolutionary Leap + Dictate of Erebos + Athreos. Create a creature sacrifice lock and card advantage with Leap, Athreos and Decree basically. Like Merciless Executioner trigger, sac to Leap, opponent sacs two with Dictate, fetch a new guy, opponent loses 3 or lets you have Executioner back. Probably run the new Erebos Titan, Gary, and Qarsi Sadist and win by draining.
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LokiTheLiar
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby LokiTheLiar » 03 Jul 2015, 13:22

You are not wrong about graveyard recursion showing up more, but I think you may be overestimating it a bit.

Both of your ideas look sweet, but in my opinion the Temur deck seems better. I don't know how competetive you want to be, but you may want to consider swapping Yasova for Savage Knuckleblade. The main problem is that you have almost no way to interact with Esper Dragons, you may want to add some planeswalkers like Xenagos or Sarkhan, Dragonspeaker to have a diffrent angle of attack in control matchups.

The Jeskai Burn deck is quite good too, but I'm afraid you would have to add some creatures or token makers to the main deck, because there is a lot of creature based decks in the meta that will be able to race you even with all the removal you have. Maybe a couple Mantis Riders, Brimaz or Monastery Mentor to have some kind of board presence?

If you are looking for a fun deck that can also win you some games, have you considered Mono Blue Devotion/UG Company? It starts to get quite popular at my LGS lately and is winning quite a lot. With Magic Origins you can add Harbringer of the Tides to the deck to make it even better.
Click to Expand
4 Stratus Dancer
4 Hypnotic Siren
2 Icefeather Aven
4 Kiora's Follower
2 Rattleclaw Mystic
4 Master of Waves
4 Thassa, God of the Sea
4 Shorecrasher Elemental
4 Silumgar Sorcerer
4 Collected Company
4 Yavimaya Coast
2 Thornwood Falls
4 Temple of Mystery
2 Mana Confluence
12 Island
SB: 4 Omenspeaker
SB: 3 Disdainful Stroke
SB: 2 Negate
SB: 2 Encase in Ice
SB: 2 Bident of Thassa
SB: 2 Icefall Regent

Good luck and happy brewing :)
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Current decks:
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby fantôme » 03 Jul 2015, 17:18

Updating my mono blue aggro deck with the new set to a faster build:

Click to Expand
2 ???
4 Frost Lynx
4 Hypnotic Siren
4 Illusory Angel
4 Omenspeaker
4 Ornithopter
3 Helm of the Gods
3 Aqueous Form
4 Ensoul Artifact
4 Mirror Mockery
4 Darksteel Citadel
18 Island
2 Rogue's Passage

sb.
1 Artisan of Forms
4 Dissolve
4 Encase in Ice
2 Kiora's Dismissal
4 ???


Advice on a couple more creatures and sideboard options very welcome.
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby eostby » 03 Jul 2015, 19:58

I've got a mono red build that I'm considering putting together for Origins Standard, but I'm not entirely convinced that I've got it well-tuned. I've not been able to test this against any other decks, but multiple runs at goldfishing it point to turn 5 kills (against an empty board, so probably a little later actually). It's kind of become very Goblin heavy by necessity, but I'm trying to make it so Chandra is actually at her best here. Suggestions appreciated.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/origins- ... -mono-red/
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square1
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby square1 » 04 Jul 2015, 06:25

LokiTheLiar wrote:
Click to Expand
You are not wrong about graveyard recursion showing up more, but I think you may be overestimating it a bit.

Both of your ideas look sweet, but in my opinion the Temur deck seems better. I don't know how competetive you want to be, but you may want to consider swapping Yasova for Savage Knuckleblade. The main problem is that you have almost no way to interact with Esper Dragons, you may want to add some planeswalkers like Xenagos or Sarkhan, Dragonspeaker to have a diffrent angle of attack in control matchups.

The Jeskai Burn deck is quite good too, but I'm afraid you would have to add some creatures or token makers to the main deck, because there is a lot of creature based decks in the meta that will be able to race you even with all the removal you have. Maybe a couple Mantis Riders, Brimaz or Monastery Mentor to have some kind of board presence?

If you are looking for a fun deck that can also win you some games, have you considered Mono Blue Devotion/UG Company? It starts to get quite popular at my LGS lately and is winning quite a lot. With Magic Origins you can add Harbringer of the Tides to the deck to make it even better.
4 Stratus Dancer
4 Hypnotic Siren
2 Icefeather Aven
4 Kiora's Follower
2 Rattleclaw Mystic
4 Master of Waves
4 Thassa, God of the Sea
4 Shorecrasher Elemental
4 Silumgar Sorcerer
4 Collected Company
4 Yavimaya Coast
2 Thornwood Falls
4 Temple of Mystery
2 Mana Confluence
12 Island
SB: 4 Omenspeaker
SB: 3 Disdainful Stroke
SB: 2 Negate
SB: 2 Encase in Ice
SB: 2 Bident of Thassa
SB: 2 Icefall Regent
Good luck and happy brewing :)


Thanks for the feedback!
I want Yasova in the Temur deck just because it lets you go to combat, steal the opponent's creature, and then sacrifice that creature to Evolutionary Leap to get yourself a card. She's big enough to steal Raptors, den protectors, and Fleecemane, and with Xenagos she can steal just about anything short of Atarka. I'm more concerned about beating Abzan and RG game 1. I think I can sideboard against Esper, and I've got Surrak main deck to get past counterspell. Goblins may be a bad matchup since you need multiple blockers or board wipes and it's hard for this deck to have either turn 1-4.

I definitely plan on boarding in creatures as necessary for the Jeskai deck. I'd probably run Ojutai, just because he doesn't die to Ultimate Price or Bile Blight. Mentor is good if you expect Foul-Tongue Invocation, but he doesn't put immediate pressure and dies to practically everything. I really want Mentor to be good, but without more cheap cantrips I'm not sure he works.

I like Blue devotion, but Goblin Piledriver was a very sad thing to see for that deck. I do like your green splash for Collected Company. I'm surprised no Stratus Dancer. Stopping Crux/Languish/Anger of the Gods seems really important for that deck and it's a pretty efficient blue beater.

I think the UR Ornithopter deck might be real. Thopter Spy Network + Bident of Thassa = Make an ornithopter every turn and draw multiple cards when you're little flying swarm hits. Hammer of Purphoros to give them all haste. Shrapnel Blast and Ensoul Artifact as your finishers. Burn and counters to back them up. I think you mainly just need a lot of early removal since you can't really come online sooner than turn 5.
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby square1 » 04 Jul 2015, 06:51

eostby wrote:I've got a mono red build that I'm considering putting together for Origins Standard, but I'm not entirely convinced that I've got it well-tuned. I've not been able to test this against any other decks, but multiple runs at goldfishing it point to turn 5 kills (against an empty board, so probably a little later actually). It's kind of become very Goblin heavy by necessity, but I'm trying to make it so Chandra is actually at her best here. Suggestions appreciated.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/origins- ... -mono-red/


I know Atarka's Command is popular in these decks to stop life gain and get some extra damage in. I think Obelisk of Urd also sees some use to give your little goblins mid game oomph.

One card I think might be good in that deck is Break Through The Line. Can make piledriver and rabblemaster unblockable before their pump ability activates and gives you access to haste if the opponent stabilized with a Crux or Languish. Lets you swing in with Chandra to get 2 of the 3 damage you need to flip her.

I'd probably use Chandra, Pyromaster over Outpost Siege in the board. She can do the same thing for the same cost and also gives you the option to ping and make something unable to block. That said, these decks often run 16-18 land and running anything over 3 mana is risking putting yourself out of aggro into midrange.

Exquisite Firecraft seems like a sideboard card, and too many expensive spells for a deck trying to win by turn 4-5. More creatures or a cheap pump spell like Titan's Strength.

Other cards that might be good: I really like Goblin Glory Chaser from Origins as another turn 1 play, though he's a lot worse turn 2-4. Abbot of Keral Keep is a decent prowess creature with quasi-card draw, and if you want a 4 mana finisher, Avaricious Dragon seems like a good fit since you've likely dumped your hand by turn 4 anyway.

Good luck!
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby fantôme » 04 Jul 2015, 07:09

What's you guys' opinion on Molten Vortex in mono red goblins?

square1: I really hope the 'thopter deck happens, there is the potential for hilarious amounts of token generation & card draw going on. And I actually think that Whirler Rogue might be overall better than Master of Waves, (when did blue get so good at creatures?...).
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby square1 » 04 Jul 2015, 08:12

fantôme wrote:What's you guys' opinion on Molten Vortex in mono red goblins?

square1: I really hope the 'thopter deck happens, there is the potential for hilarious amounts of token generation & card draw going on. And I actually think that Whirler Rogue might be overall better than Master of Waves, (when did blue get so good at creatures?...).


I don't think vortex is great in goblins. If you think about it in terms of card and mana cost it's not efficient. I think the goblin deck wants to minimize the number of lands it draws by using sac lands and running as few lands as possible rather than assuming mana flood and putting in a card that only works in that narrow circumstance. Vortex I think works better if you have things like steam augury where you can reload and put the extra land to use. Makes the choice harder for augury at least.

Thopter deck also works well with equipment. Sigil of valor or sword of the animist could be fun.
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby LokiTheLiar » 05 Jul 2015, 06:49

Regarding the thopters - they are colorless so will be quite good with Ghostfire Blade.
@square1 there are 4 Stratus Dancers in my UG Company list for the exact reasons you mentioned , you must've missed them while reading the list :)
I'm getting worried about the new standard meta with Origins, I would like to be able to still play control and have a chance of winning, but the new aggro cards look scary.
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby square1 » 05 Jul 2015, 07:36

LokiTheLiar wrote:Regarding the thopters - they are colorless so will be quite good with Ghostfire Blade.
@square1 there are 4 Stratus Dancers in my UG Company list for the exact reasons you mentioned , you must've missed them while reading the list :)
I'm getting worried about the new standard meta with Origins, I would like to be able to still play control and have a chance of winning, but the new aggro cards look scary.


Sorry! This is what I get for browsing the forum on my phone.

I think control is still positioned pretty well against aggro. You have bile blight and ultimate price at 2, drown in sorrow at 3, languish at 4 and crux, end hostilities, and tragic arrogance at 5. Abzan aggro is probably still the biggest issue with its multicolor 2 drop threats with Deathdealer and Fleecemane and siege rhino and tasigur dodging languish and its resilience to board wipes with Den Protector/Deathmist. But goblins or white weenie are all pretty vulnerable to the black sweepers. Infinite Obliteration is probably going to be a strong sideboard card against green since you can turn 3 take away Den Protector and force them to play fair, since they usually hold it until turn 5 so they can morph and flip it.


I brewed up a Bant deck that tries to use Evolutionary Leap and Whisperwood Elemental /Mastery of the Unseen to turn random manifests into card draw, with a number of one-offs that work well in different matchups. I could see the Sylvan Caryatids being Honored Hierarchs. Early game they have some advantages, particularly providing a turn 1 blocker for goblin aggression, and you can always turn them into something else with Leap.

Origins Bant - Click to Expand
Spells: 37


Creatures: 26
4 Den Protector
4 Deathmist Raptor
3 Sylvan Caryatid
3 Fleecemane Lion
2 Stratus Dancer
1 Dragonlord Dromoka
1 Nylea, God of the Hunt
1 Polukranos, World Eater
2 Whisperwood Elemental
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1 Yasova Dragonclaw
1 Dragonlord Ojutai
2 Courser of Kruphix

Instants: 6
2 Dromoka's Command
2 Valorous Stance
2 Disdainful Stroke

Enchantments: 5
3 Evolutionary Leap
2 Mastery of the Unseen

Lands: 23
4 Temple of Mystery
2 Temple of Plenty
4 Yavimaya Coast
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4 Windswept Heath
5 Forest
3 Plains


Sideboard:
2 Disdainful Stroke
2 Dromoka's Command
4 Cleric of the Forward Order //I like these better than Arashin Cleric cause they trade with Piledriver.
2 Learn from the Past //could be Godsend or something else; depends on how you want to try shutting down graveyard recursion.
3 Celestial Flare //could be Reality Shift, depends on whether Hexproof or Indestructible is more of a problem. Could also be Hornet Queen or Nest/Ugin/Elspeth. Judgment call for the meta.
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby BluDragoon » 07 Jul 2015, 22:19

Standard is my favourite format (just behind limited and then modern) and origins (PILEDRIVER WOOOOOOO) has got my brewing juices flowing again.

Right now I am thinking of a Atarka Goblins list like this-

Creature (23)
4x Foundry Street Denizen
3x Frenzied Goblin
4x Goblin Glory Chaser
2x Goblin Heelcutter
4x Goblin Piledriver
4x Goblin Rabblemaster
2x Subterranean Scout
Land (20)
1x Forest
4x Mana Confluence
11x Mountain
4x Wooded Foothills
Instant (10)
3x Atarka's Command
4x Stoke the Flames
3x Wild Slash
Sorcery (7)
4x Dragon Fodder
3x Hordeling Outburst
Sideboard (15)
2x Exquisite Firecraft
3x Obelisk of Urd
4x Rending Volley
3x Scouring Sands
3x Smash to Smithereens

Not sure about the heelcutters yet, might sub them up for more of the sub scouts, making piledrivers and rabbles unblockable seems amazing for just 2 mana and it's a decent body too. Not sure on the SB either, needs some more work.

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