Standard Discussion

A place to talk about standard, casual, limited and everything in between.
fantôme
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby fantôme » 11 Oct 2015, 21:06

Updated: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/12-10-15-flood/

gcninja: I'd recommend sticking to a theme - your Dust Walker and Dominator Drone don't have many Devoid friends, Catacomb Sifter is much better in decks with lots of tokens or recursion, and your really big stuff is lacking ramp. Streamlining a deck to just Devoid or Tokens/Sacrifice or Ramp respectively, will make it a lot more synergistic and effective. Also to note - Genesis Hydra and Overgrown Tomb aren't legal in standard.

Lycodrake: Raptor is a very powerful card, and you certainly have some space in the cmc3 spot. BfZ brought some more ramp options, but in general for a two drop mana dork I much prefer Whisperer of the Wilds to Leaf Gilder. If you're Selesnya Dragons (and I do love Selesnya Dragons), there's also always the double Enduring Scalelord combo option... Also, is the Canopy Vista in the maybeboard as a wishlist or as an unsurity? Definitely bring it in if you have one.
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby gcninja » 12 Oct 2015, 01:02

Updated. Thanks! I must have missed that about expedition lands and hydra. I'll pop the expedition into my commander deck then I think. With the dust stalker, I do have 7 devoid/colorless creatures so I figure if I'm popping out two, I can include two more Drones. Would that be worth it? A 5/3 with haste for 4, who for worst case is essentially a dash creature.

What un/common cards would you suggest for making scions and what could they replace?
Thanks for the help!

Added:
1x Drone
1x Oblivion Sower
1x Swell
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Lycodrake
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby Lycodrake » 12 Oct 2015, 03:12

fantôme wrote:Lycodrake: Raptor is a very powerful card, and you certainly have some space in the cmc3 spot. BfZ brought some more ramp options, but in general for a two drop mana dork I much prefer Whisperer of the Wilds to Leaf Gilder. If you're Selesnya Dragons (and I do love Selesnya Dragons), there's also always the double Enduring Scalelord combo option... Also, is the Canopy Vista in the maybeboard as a wishlist or as an unsurity? Definitely bring it in if you have one.

I had Whisperers of the Wilds at first, but with a few Bolster cards in-deck I wasn't sure if they helped as much as Leaf Gilders.
Selesnya Dragons is fun! Surrak the Hunt Caller helps a ton. Dude has a way with dragons. :)
I don't quite want to invest in casting double Enduring Scalelord when I could instead cast something better.
I do own 1 Canopy Vista, but I'm not sure which basic land to switch out for it.
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square1
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby square1 » 13 Oct 2015, 05:31

Finally managed enough trades to get some new duals and new BFZ stuff that I could put a standard deck together. Mainly wanted to play a deck with Dig Through Time since if it's good enough to be banned in every other format, maybe I should be playing it. :)

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Land (25)
3x Canopy Vista
4x Flooded Strand
2x Forest
1x Island
4x Opulent Palace
1x Plains
3x Polluted Delta
1x Prairie Stream
2x Sunken Hollow
4x Windswept Heath

Creature (23)
4x Deathmist Raptor
4x Den Protector
2x Dragonlord Ojutai
4x Hangarback Walker
2x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
2x Siege Rhino
4x Stratus Dancer
1x Tasigur, the Golden Fang

Instant (10)
4x Abzan Charm
2x Dig Through Time
1x Dromoka's Command
1x Ultimate Price
2x Utter End

Planeswalker (2)
2x Kiora, Master of the Depths

Sideboard (15)
2x Anafenza, the Foremost
1x Dragonlord Dromoka
3x Dromoka's Command
1x Jaddi Offshoot
1x Siege Rhino
3x Surge of Righteousness
1x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
3x Tragic Arrogance


Tried to focus on instant speed removal to counter the Atarka red become immense/temur battle rage combo. Kind of a cross between Bant megamorph and abzan control. I'm a little worried about Mantis Rider coming in a little too quick for me.
fantôme
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby fantôme » 13 Oct 2015, 09:32

gcninja: Vile Aggregate and Swarm Surge are great cards if you're going the scion route, in terms of making the little guys - imho the best options are Void Attendant (if you have ingest support) and From Beyond (but is rare).

Lycodrake: your g/w split is fairly even, but since you have fixing from Map the Wastes, I'd go -1 Plains +1 Vista.

square1: scary looking deck... Encase in Ice has done loads of work for me versus Rider/Rhino/Atarka. Also, good luck trying to figure out keeps/mulligans with that mana base!
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby square1 » 13 Oct 2015, 09:59

fantôme wrote:
square1: scary looking deck... Encase in Ice has done loads of work for me versus Rider/Rhino/Atarka. Also, good luck trying to figure out keeps/mulligans with that mana base!


Good suggestion. I've actually been considering Reality Shift for more instant speed exile. I think probably worth it to have to manage a random manifest if I get to exile Hangarback, Jace, etc for 2 mana at instant speed and stop recursion effects. Less good against Atarka Red where they just need a creature on the board.
Amazingly the mana has been super good. I'm actually more concerned about the pain from the fetchlands than not hitting my colors. I'm taking 5-6 a game from those.
fantôme
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby fantôme » 13 Oct 2015, 11:46

The big problem with Reality Shift is a smart opponent will look at their manifested card and then smile (regardless of what it is), putting you on the back foot psychologically.

Oh, your manabase certainly looks solid, its just when you see fetches in an opening hand and have to go through the whole "this fetches x or y, dual taps for y or z" it can be tricky to decide what a good opening hand actually looks like in terms of lands.
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square1
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby square1 » 13 Oct 2015, 12:04

fantôme wrote:The big problem with Reality Shift is a smart opponent will look at their manifested card and then smile (regardless of what it is), putting you on the back foot psychologically.

Oh, your manabase certainly looks solid, its just when you see fetches in an opening hand and have to go through the whole "this fetches x or y, dual taps for y or z" it can be tricky to decide what a good opening hand actually looks like in terms of lands.


Well, that's not a failing of the card per se; it's a failing on my part if I let someone get in my head :) Anyway, tricky plays and skill testers are my favorite part of the game, so all of that sounds good to me!
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The Martini
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby The Martini » 13 Oct 2015, 12:13

So, I'm not a standard player, but I love weird control decks (I'm somewhere on the Timmy/Johnny spectrum). So, how do I make a deck like this not completely suck?

Jefferson Starfield

Enchantment control. Kill with angels from the Throne or with the pile of enchantments from Starfield. The Oracles are ok blockers (eventually), can pitch the cards exiled by Quarantine Field, Silkwrap, Stasis Snare, and Suspension Field to draw, and can be a last-ditch win condition if need be.

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Enchantment (24)
2x Citadel Siege
2x Dampening Pulse
2x Monastery Siege
2x Myth Realized
2x Quarantine Field
2x Quiet Contemplation
2x Sigil of the Empty Throne
2x Silkwrap
2x Starfield of Nyx
4x Stasis Snare
2x Suspension Field

Land (22)
4x Flooded Strand
3x Island
7x Plains
4x Prairie Stream
4x Tranquil Cove

Instant (10)
4x Anticipate
4x Cancel
2x Ojutai's Command

Creature (4)
4x Oracle of Dust


Again, I don't play anything constructed beyond kitchen-table standard (and only standard to reduce the card pool and get rid of questions like, "Dad, what's an Interrupt?"). Only looking to develop this idea into Not Complete Garbo.

Any ideas?
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square1
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby square1 » 13 Oct 2015, 12:28

Re: Jefferson Starfield

Standard is pretty fast right now, and you look set for the long game once you can resolve a Sigil of the Empty throne, so maybe max out on Silkwrap?

Herald of the Pantheon could also be a good fit for your deck, providing early defense, life gain, and ramp if you're willing to go into Green. Frontier Siege also strong with Sigil of the Empty Throne and ramps you too.

I might recommend going up on lands or adding more ways to ramp because you're probably not consistently hitting 5 mana on turn 5 to cast your Sigil with 22 land. Some blighted cataracts would fill out the count while not being completely dead later on.

I like the synergy with Oracle of Dust. Nice combo :)
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The Martini
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby The Martini » 13 Oct 2015, 13:04

So, if I stayed W/U, what should I ditch for two more Silkwrap and two lands? What's the most do-nothing: Dampening Pulse (too slow)? Myth Realized (actual trash and Starfield non-bo)? Quiet Contemplation (does nothing immediately)? Some Cancels? A siege?

If I go to Bant (more of a green splash really - I think I'd only go with Harold), I assume I'd want 4 Herald of the Pantheon because I really, REALLY want it early. What do I ditch for that? Some of the Oracles? More of the stuff above? What does my mana base look like (I'm ok with 2-color but I have no idea what 3 looks like)?

Thanks!
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fantôme
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby fantôme » 13 Oct 2015, 14:11

Since you've already got the two Fields in there, how about Valor in Akros: with an active Starfield, cast Suspension Field, Valor makes it a 3/3 - meaning it can target itself, it exiles then returns ad infinitum - every time it does, all of your other creatures get +1/+1 from the Valor.

Myth Realised is great in some control decks, but like you said not so great with Starfield - and I think between that and the angels, you've got plenty of ways to finish a game. Contemplation is probably not even that necessary with all the removal you already have. Pulse is going to be great against some decks and at least okay against most decks - at the very least I'd keep it in the sideboard, if not main. Also Scatter to the Winds rather than Cancel, if you can get a hold of some.

Bant manabase is unfortunately going to be expensive for a control deck - going this route depends on how many fetch and tango lands you have lying around.

Also seconding square1, the Oracle is brilliant.
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby The Martini » 13 Oct 2015, 14:41

Ooh, Valor is good. I hadn't realized until re-reading: Stasis Snare, Silkwrap, and Suspension field choose targets on hitting the battlefield, not on cast. Stasis Snare and Silkwrap can natively target themselves as with Starfield out, and Suspension Field can do so with Valor and Starfield out (which is the only time you'd want to do that anyway).

It fares pretty well without the combo, even - I think I initially discarded it since the deck doesnt have much in the way of actual creature cards, but with Starfield out, any enchantment buffs the team; with just the Throne out, any enchantment makes an angel and buffs whatever other angels or Oracles are out.

I hesitate on splashing green because it makes the likelyhood of this deck ever being real much lower. Only Flooded Strand is particularly expensive of my current manabase, but we'd be adding a ton of fetch lands to get green. Almost nothing else in the deck is all that spendy and a I have a lot of it sitting around already (and maybe a flooded strand? not sure).

Scatter to the Winds is a strictly better Cancel, if I can get some, true.

Will work on the idea and modify the decklist... Thanks all!
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby fantôme » 13 Oct 2015, 14:47

Unfortunately it only works with Suspension Field, since Snare and Wrap can only target your opponent's creatures.
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby Lycodrake » 13 Oct 2015, 17:34

fantôme wrote:Lycodrake: your g/w split is fairly even, but since you have fixing from Map the Wastes, I'd go -1 Plains +1 Vista.

Thanks for the reply - and for the advice!
That's what I was thinking would do well, but wasn't certain. I'll definitely see how it works out!
Any advice regarding the Heirs and Raptors? Or at least what to do with the left over Heir of the Wilds - replace it with something else, like Tragic Arrogance, or what?
Last edited by Lycodrake on 13 Oct 2015, 17:45, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby gcninja » 13 Oct 2015, 17:40

Last time: 68 cards. Gone into ingest and the like. I like it and really can't see what to cut without great argument of why to keep.

jund devoid...ish?

Thanks again guys
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby Phi » 14 Oct 2015, 02:13

So since some of the orders I placed for my U/B control deck have yet to arrive, I will be going this Friday with my Butts of Zendikar deck, which is an updated version of my Butts of Tarkir deck. Can win on turn 4, or lose horribly :)
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby Lycodrake » 17 Oct 2015, 11:18

Welp, in the past week my Dromoka deck went from 55USD to about 88 or so on tcgplayer mid prices.
Meanwhile, I think I will switch out 1 Plains for the 1 Canopy Vista.
Perhaps one thing I could do with the Raptors and Heirs is instead put one of the 4 Hidden Dragonslayers in my sideboard and wind up with 2 Heirs of the Wilds and all 3 Deathmist Raptors?
I'm definitely open to suggestions.
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby square1 » 18 Oct 2015, 11:58

Lycodrake wrote:Welp, in the past week my Dromoka deck went from 55USD to about 88 or so on tcgplayer mid prices.
Meanwhile, I think I will switch out 1 Plains for the 1 Canopy Vista.
Perhaps one thing I could do with the Raptors and Heirs is instead put one of the 4 Hidden Dragonslayers in my sideboard and wind up with 2 Heirs of the Wilds and all 3 Deathmist Raptors?
I'm definitely open to suggestions.


The Raptors, while very efficient at 3/3 Deathtouch for 3, are really truly powerful because of the trigger to return to play when you flip up something. Since the Hidden Dragonslayers are your only other morph creature, I would suggest keeping them in and just cutting Heir of the Wilds for your Raptors.
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby gcninja » 18 Oct 2015, 12:04

So I picked up a few packs of BfZ to finish off my punch card at my LGS and opened them to find what I need I think to finish my deck (also, out of 6 packs, 3 mythics: Ob Nix, Ulamog and Oblivion Sower. RNGesus seems to be on my side). So does this look ready for some fun standard play?
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby Lycodrake » 18 Oct 2015, 16:27

square1 wrote:The Raptors, while very efficient at 3/3 Deathtouch for 3, are really truly powerful because of the trigger to return to play when you flip up something. Since the Hidden Dragonslayers are your only other morph creature, I would suggest keeping them in and just cutting Heir of the Wilds for your Raptors.

Any suggestion as to replacing the fourth Heir of the Wilds with? I have 1 Tragic Arrogance and 1 Wingmate Roc, plus the 1 Secure the Wastes in my side-board that I could switch to main-board.
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby square1 » 19 Oct 2015, 05:12

Lycodrake wrote:Any suggestion as to replacing the fourth Heir of the Wilds with? I have 1 Tragic Arrogance and 1 Wingmate Roc, plus the 1 Secure the Wastes in my side-board that I could switch to main-board.


Those are all powerful cards. It depends on how you want your curve to look. If you're trying to be more aggro than leaving in the Heir as an early drop seems fine.

Of the cards you've listed, I like Wingmate Roc the best, since Mantis Rider seems to be popular now and a 3/4 flyer is a good answer. Also, a lot of 'walkers running around, at least in my local meta, so evasive damage to chip down their loyalty has been super important.
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby Lycodrake » 19 Oct 2015, 18:53

Is Wingmate Roc good as a one-of, though? (I also don't have a Roc token.)
I would think that Tragic Arrogance or Secure the Wastes would make better one-of's, but I could be wrong.
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fantôme
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby fantôme » 20 Oct 2015, 01:44

Phi: how'd your Ass Form deck get on?

gcninja: go for it, see what works and what doesn't. You've got powerful cards and synergies, the next thing to consider is your mana curve - important in Jund so that you're Junding 'em out at peak efficiency. For instance, you have quite a high number of three mana creatures, could any of those be replaced with a two-drop to improve your curve?

Lycodrake: play all three - two in the sideboard?
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby Phi » 20 Oct 2015, 01:59

I went 1-3.

Round 1 was against G/W megamorph, and I essentially drew and filtered through half of my deck without reaching a single ass form, so bad luck. 0-2

Round 2 was against Atarka red, and in both games I managed to get the ass form out. It was a good matchup, since there is not a lot this deck can do against an increasing number of walls. 2-0

Round 3 was against grixis dragons, and playing around counterspells was tricky, but sideboarding negates helped a lot. The games were close, but I could not keep enough pressure on my opponent. 1-2

Round 3 was against Abzan aggro, which had a lot of good removal against mono-coloured creatures with high toughness. The games were very aggressive, but my deck struggled against siege rhinos and I could not bring my opponent's life total to zero in time. 2-1

Anyway, this is the current version of my Silumgar Control Deck. I tweaked it a bit after seeing the decks at the pro tour, and I think I have a solid mainboard and sideboard to answer them in the early game and take over in the late game. Any thoughts?

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