Standard Discussion

A place to talk about standard, casual, limited and everything in between.
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JackSlack
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby JackSlack » 20 Oct 2015, 15:45

Out of curiosity, has anyone had any luck with a budget brew right now? Standard has somehow wound up being more expensive than Modern, which I don't think should actually be possible.
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square1
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby square1 » 20 Oct 2015, 18:43

JackSlack wrote:Out of curiosity, has anyone had any luck with a budget brew right now? Standard has somehow wound up being more expensive than Modern, which I don't think should actually be possible.


A version of the atarka red deck is certainly doable on a budget. The Temur Battle Rage/Become Immense combo is relatively inexpensive and the removal is cheap. Atarka's Command and the fetches are the main expense, with Abbot of Keral Keep being the next pricey thing.

Fetches, Jace, and Gideon are your main money sinks at the moment.

I think Eldrazi Ramp might actually be doable on a budget. If you can get an early Sire of Stagnation you'll shut down a lot of decks. Rattleclaw Mystic and the other mana dorks and Explosive Vegetation are all cheap, you can skip on fetches since you'll just search up basics with spells, and as long as you can survive the early game you'll go over the top of most decks. Oblivion Sower is in the Vs box I believe, and is relatively cheap and beats Siege Rhino. Newlamog is a bit expensive at $15 but isn't necessary.

I don't know what might be successful, but I think you can go into an event with a decent chance of winning some games with a budget brew. Just make sure you have a way to stop Gideon, Jace, Mantis Rider, Siege Rhino, and Wingmate Roc.
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JackSlack
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby JackSlack » 20 Oct 2015, 19:24

Eldrazi of some sort has been my basic frame of reference; I've already drawn two Ulamog, so it's been the obvious go-to. If anyone has an idea for a decklist, I'd be all ears.
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby fantôme » 21 Oct 2015, 00:28

Phi: the only thing I'm uncertain about is the 3x Dig Through Time - in a not particularly heavy delve fueling deck, might be too many? Though I don't have a lot of experience with this kind of deck.

JackSlack: in addition to those, Warriors and Elves can still be done well and cheap. Also according to tappedout, my current Flood brew is $70, and it's been doing astonishingly well.
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Phi
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby Phi » 21 Oct 2015, 03:10

fantôme wrote:Phi: the only thing I'm uncertain about is the 3x Dig Through Time - in a not particularly heavy delve fueling deck, might be too many? Though I don't have a lot of experience with this kind of deck.

All the counterspells and removal go to the graveyard, so I usually cast Dig for 2-4 mana on average. In the late game, it is not uncommon for me to cast 2 at the same turn with one digging into the other :)
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby fantôme » 21 Oct 2015, 09:19

Dig Through Dig Through Time: for when you really really really want a particular card.

JackSlack: I'm not entirely sure what you're supposed to do with Ulamog other than find Ulamog - ramp into Ulamog - win with Ulamog. There are plenty of ways to do the first two of those, and the third pretty much does itself.

Speaking of silly win conditions, I want to try this:

4x Harold of Kozilek
4x Flameshadow Conjuring & 4x Clever Impersonator (copying Harold)
4x Ancestral Statue (free with four Harolds, bouncing itself forever)
4x Molten Nursery / Impact Tremors (trigger win con)

But how do I keep four Harolds alive in the current standard?
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby JackSlack » 22 Oct 2015, 01:20

... Fantome, that's wonderful and I really want to do it.
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Phi
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby Phi » 22 Oct 2015, 01:31

fantôme wrote:But how do I keep four Harolds alive in the current standard?

That is the question, and I don't think there is much of an answer.

I think Eldrazi aggro abusing Ghostfire Blade is a better budget option. Here is what I came up with. Smoldering Marsh and Exquisite Firecraft can be replaced with Bloodfell Caves and Touch of the Void for budget needs.
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby JackSlack » 22 Oct 2015, 01:54

Phi wrote:That is the question, and I don't think there is much of an answer.

I think Eldrazi aggro abusing Ghostfire Blade is a better budget option. Here is what I came up with. Smoldering Marsh and Exquisite Firecraft can be replaced with Bloodfell Caves and Touch of the Void for budget needs.


That's pretty good and I might see if I can build it. This was my attempt at something a bit similar; use Vile Aggregate to apply pressure and cook up to Ulamogs as late game.
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby Phi » 22 Oct 2015, 02:04

JackSlack wrote:
Phi wrote:That is the question, and I don't think there is much of an answer.

I think Eldrazi aggro abusing Ghostfire Blade is a better budget option. Here is what I came up with. Smoldering Marsh and Exquisite Firecraft can be replaced with Bloodfell Caves and Touch of the Void for budget needs.


That's pretty good and I might see if I can build it. This was my attempt at something a bit similar; use Vile Aggregate to apply pressure and cook up to Ulamogs as late game.

I think the problem with a deck ramping to Ulamog is that Ulamog is vulnerable to exiling and sacrifice effects. The common Crackling Doom in particular means that even if you cast Ulamog, the opponent can just get rid of it while you remain with defensive creatures and a bit of removal. It is for this reason that I think Eldrazi are better when they go wide and quick, and to the face.
Last edited by Phi on 22 Oct 2015, 02:09, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby Phi » 22 Oct 2015, 02:08

Oops, double-posted.
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JackSlack
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby JackSlack » 22 Oct 2015, 14:11

And yet I keep cracking Ulamog and not, say, ANYTHING else. :/

Edit: (Not entirely true. I also cracked a single Kiora. Yay.)

(I've had bad BfZ experiences.)
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby Phi » 23 Oct 2015, 04:21

If you really want to play with Ulamog, I could suggest my Silumgar deck. I finally have all the cards for it and will be going to FNM tonight and to Game Day tomorrow. Will report with results :)
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby Phi » 23 Oct 2015, 11:45

So FNm went like this:

Round 1 was against Grixis Dragons. I won the first game and the opponent managed to win the second game right when we ran out of time, so we drew.

Round 2 was against Atarka Red. I lost the first game to the infamous combo after keeping a sketchy hand. Won the second game with Ulamog (which, let me tell you, feels great). In the third game I mulliganed to 5 but drew enough removal so I didn't fall behind, and could disrupt the infamous combo by Complete Disregarding Zurgo with Become Immense on the stack. 2-1.

Round 3 was against Dark Jeskai. I won game 1 after having dominated the game from the beginning, and won after resolving Ulamog. Game 2 was very long and very close, but I flooded a bit and the opponent won. We ran out of time in the beginning of round 3, so we drew.

Round 4 was against Jund Red. I lost the first game with bad draws, but managed to survive much longer in the second game, which I eventually lost too. We played for fun afterwards, and I won after a long game, so at least that.

Final score is 1-1-2. I was actually pleased by how interactive my deck can be in the early game (exiling 3 Jaces - budget victory), and in general the deck was something to be reckoned with. I ended up making a few changes though: 1x Scatter to the Winds in mainboard replaced with an additional Horribly Awary; and 1x Ruinous Path replaced by an additional Complete Disregard; Orbs of Warding in the sideboard replaced with a Ruinous Path. My reasoning is that exiling is very important against all those raptors, den protectors, Ojutai's command and aristocrats deck. I rather be better equipped for those.

Will report on how it goes on game day. Good luck for everyone :)
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby Phi » 24 Oct 2015, 11:53

Game Day:

Round 1 was against Abzan splashing red. 2-1
Round 2 was against a dedicated Demonic Pact deck which I really struggled against due to all the discarding effects preventing me from having 3+ counterspells in hand at any time. 0-2
Round 3 was against Dark Jeskai tokens. I generally had lots of answers for it in my deck and sideboard, but just didn't drew what I needed. 0-2.
Round 4 was against Sultai Aristocrats, which I prepared my deck for. I lost game 1 due to not drawing cards that interact in the early game, but won the next 2 games fairly easily. 2-1.
Round 5 was against Dark Jeskai, which, as it turned out, my deck is not great against. 1-2.

So I ranked 16th out of 23, which is not amazing, but at least most games were fun (except against the Demonic Pact deck, which is not fun to play against).
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby square1 » 24 Oct 2015, 15:52

Just got back from dinner after Game Day here. Victory! The Drana playmat rocks :)

Played my WUBG good stuff deck I listed above. Wow do I love Stratus Dancer. People assume the only morph a green deck plays is Den Protector and they are very surprised when you flip a counterspell.

Final record (5-0-1)

Match 1 - BG Aristocrats
Record (2-1-0)

Match 2 - Abzan with Monastery Mentor
Record (2-0-0)

Match 3 - BW Warriors
Record (2-1-0)

Match 4 - RG Landfall
Intentional Draw into Top 4

Match 5 - Jund Goblins with Zada
Record (2-1-0)

Opponent used Become Immense/Temur Battle Rage, as well as Tread Upon, and Touch of Moonglove to force damage through. Both games I won were nail-biters.

Match 6 - BW Warriors
Record (2-1-0)
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby fantôme » 25 Oct 2015, 05:29

Unfortunately I couldn't go because work.

But congratulations square1! Good job on defeating a variety of powerful archetypes, and on carrying the flag for four-colour good stuff. I salute you.
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby Lycodrake » 26 Oct 2015, 15:39

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/23-03-15 ... e-eternal/
My updated Dromoka/Selesnya Dragons deck. Though it has sort of become partially a Morph deck? ^^;
I managed to trade for 4 Rattleclaw Mystics at FNM, plus 3 Felidar Sovereign.
My record this past FNM was 1-2-1. Lost to Dark Jeskai and...one other I'm not remembering atm.
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby Lycodrake » 31 Oct 2015, 08:11

I went 2-2-0 last night. Lost to Dark Jeskai and Atarka Red.
Decided to splurge, which might've been a poor choice, and get 3 BFZ packs between rounds. I got Dragonmaster Outcast and Greenwarden of Murasa at least, but the third rare was a Prism Array - argh.
From prize packs I got Angelic Captain, Scatter to the Winds, and Sunbringer's Touch. Welp.

Anyway, I found Citadel Siege was only delaying the inevitable so I've removed it and replaced it with Stasis Snare. Hopefully that'll help me.

In related news, I'm worried my deck is trying to do too many things at once. Yay second-guessing myself! =P
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby fantôme » 31 Oct 2015, 09:37

There isn't anything in there that is particularly unsynergistic, and a deck that can cram a whole bunch of things in is a lot more interesting than just the regular dedicated gw counters / gw dragons / gw morph decks. That being said, you do have quite a lot of three-drops in there!

Green and white have quite a lot of specific removal to help you deal with atarka red and dark jeskai, you could look into filling out your sideboard.

I've been attempting to make budget mill work:
Click to Expand
4 Faerie Miscreant
4 Fathom Feeder
3 Salvage Drone
4 Sidisi's Faithful
4 Altar of the Brood
4 Mirror Mockery
4 Sphinx's Tutelage
4 Tightening Coils
3 Altar's Reap
3 Displacement Wave
23 Lands...


Mockery tokens trigger Altar of the Brood as well as getting bonus etb effects, and can be sacrificed to Altar's Reap, getting more out of Tutelage. Displacement Wave is beautiful against most decks and actually beneficial for mine, Coils shuts down the scariest creatures commonly found in standard at the moment. I'm liking this deck a lot, it can get off to some extremely explosive starts, only problem is it tends to run out of steam after milling around two-thirds of my opponent's deck. Suggestions very welcome!
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby Lycodrake » 01 Nov 2015, 13:03

fantôme wrote:There isn't anything in there that is particularly unsynergistic, and a deck that can cram a whole bunch of things in is a lot more interesting than just the regular dedicated gw counters / gw dragons / gw morph decks. That being said, you do have quite a lot of three-drops in there!

Well, originally my curve was basically "2-drops then 4-6 drops". Are you sure it isn't too mismatched? I'm second-guessing my decision to trade my foil BFZ Gideon for the 3 Deathmist Raptors these days, and feel like I should've put more into a GW Dragon ramp deck.
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby fantôme » 07 Nov 2015, 02:37

Personally I prefer an entirety of synergy to a collection of goodstuffs, but as the current dominance of four-colour goodstuff goes to show - sometimes a smörgåsbord is simply superior.

Proxy up and goldfish a few dedicated builds of g/w if you're curious, see if anything in particular tickles your fancy.

Seriously guys, how are you supposed to beat the 4/5-colour rhino/goodstuffs deck? I went 2-2 at fnm last night, again my two losses against that deck.
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby Lycodrake » 07 Nov 2015, 05:48

I haven't seen any dedicated G/W decks main-board the cards I really want to use (i.e. Surrak, the Hunt Caller; Dromoka, the Eternal, Dragonlord Dromoka), though.
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby fantôme » 07 Nov 2015, 08:24

I've seen Dromoka Eternal in Selesnya bolster decks: Hardened Scales or Servant of the Scale into Avatar of the Resolute or Scaleguard Sentinels, then High Sentinels of Arashin, Daghatar, Sunscorch, Eternal, and maybe a double Enduring Scaleguard combo. The number of +1/+1 counters flying around gets pretty ridiculous pretty fast, it looks like a lot of fun.

But am I right in thinking you're looking for more of a ramp-into-dragons thing? Sorry, the Johnny in me can't help but love +1/+1 counter shenanigans.

Other Dromoka I've only seen in Naya dragons, Surrak I've only seen in G/R devotion (which is actually still pretty good even without Nykthos).
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby Lycodrake » 07 Nov 2015, 08:36

Oh, I appreciate and like the +1/+1 counter shenanigans, too. I have shades of almost all the "MtG player archetypes" except probably Spike, haha.
The cards you mention are definitely options and really fun to play with.
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