Standard Discussion

A place to talk about standard, casual, limited and everything in between.
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square1
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby square1 » 08 Nov 2015, 11:17

fantôme wrote:
Seriously guys, how are you supposed to beat the 4/5-colour rhino/goodstuffs deck? I went 2-2 at fnm last night, again my two losses against that deck.



My inclination would be to say Aggro/Burn to punish the deck for the slow starts and life lost to fetches. Dromoka's Command is unfortunately a very cheap answer to that strategy.

Alternatively, there's probably a land destruction deck that's possible using Leaf-Gilder and Rattleclaw Mystic to ramp into a turn 3 reclaiming vines/crumble to dust. Turn 3 is early enough to delay the Rhino. If you can put those decks off a color and have some cheap aggressive threats to beat on them while they fumble for the right land draw, that might be a viable path to victory. Unfortunately no tanglewire or rishadan port type cards to give you longer term advantage and really put the nail in the coffin and if you let them keep a blue source you're fueling them up for treasure cruise to get back in. LD needs to find some way to shut the door quickly since you're rarely going to have more LD than they have land long term. Also, very vulnerable to Atarka Red type decks.
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Phi
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby Phi » 08 Nov 2015, 12:20

My Silumgar deck was also having trouble against 4/5 colour goodstuff, but I found the ultimate sideboard card against them for my deck: Palace Siege. I sideboarded it in twice last FNM, and it basically makes Crackling Doom only delay me a turn, as the Khans options let me return Silumgar to my hand if they manage to kill it.

But this strategy succeeds mainly because I run two colours. By the time they finally put together a functional landbase, I have enough counterspells and removal to deal with whatever they throw at me. Gideons, Rhonos, Rocs, Ojutais - their deck is slow enough that I can have answers, but I have more draw spells and the aforementioned Siege to keep me going.
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square1
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby square1 » 08 Nov 2015, 12:30

I thought about it and made a version of Land Destruction.

BFZ Land Destruction - Click to Expand
Creature (18)
4x Deathmist Raptor
4x Den Protector
4x Leaf Gilder
2x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
4x Rattleclaw Mystic

Instant (6)
4x Fiery Impulse
2x Volcanic Upheaval

Land (24)
4x Cinder Glade
9x Forest
7x Mountain
4x Wooded Foothills

Sorcery (12)
4x Crumble to Dust
4x Demolish
4x Reclaiming Vines

Sideboard (15)
2x Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh
4x Exquisite Firecraft
3x Managorger Hydra
1x Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
4x Wild Slash
1x Yasova Dragonclaw


Deck Thoughts - Click to Expand
You could reduce the cost by swapping out deathmist (preferably into something else with Deathtouch like Heir of the Wilds), den protector, nissa, and the fetches for cheaper alternatives, but the core idea of ramping into a turn 3 destroy target land seems relatively inexpensive.

Having thought about it a bit, I think this could be very strong against those 4 color decks for the simple reason that with 10-12 fetches, they only have 12-14 "real" lands. If you take away say 4 Canopy Vista with Crumble to Dust, you've eliminated nearly a third of their potential mana sources. Using a deathtouch creature like Deathmist then lets you kill anything they do manage to drop turn 1-3, worst case being a mantis rider, which is what fiery impulse is for.

Sideboard then lets you convert into RG aggro/burn against Atarka Red or control.


Anyway, just my thoughts for a way to beat 4 color.
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby fantôme » 14 Nov 2015, 00:36

Interesting idea, here's my take on g/r sligh:

Click to Expand
4 Honored Hierarch
3 Lightning Berserker
4 Monastery Swiftspear
2 Oran-Rief Invoker
4 Scythe Leopard
2 Atarka's Command
2 Become Immense
4 Demolish
4 Reclaiming Vines
4 Swell of Growth
4 Titan's Strength
2 Cinder Glade
4 Evolving Wilds
7 Forest
4 Looming Spires
2 Mountain
4 Wooded Foothills


Hierarch & Swell for that turn 3 land destruction, sideboard into Crumble. Seems like a blast, not that I have 4 Wooded Foothills just lying around... But apologies - I was unclear, I was actually looking for particular sideboard options rather than an entire deck. So far I've found Radiant Purge and Aerial Volley to be the most decent options.
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square1
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby square1 » 14 Nov 2015, 07:17

fantôme wrote:But apologies - I was unclear, I was actually looking for particular sideboard options rather than an entire deck. So far I've found Radiant Purge and Aerial Volley to be the most decent options.


Fair 'nough. Most of these 4 color decks are grindy midrange decks. So you can try to go under them by becoming more aggressive, go over them with something big which is I think why Ugin is seeing a resurgence, or attack their ability to gain card advantage and grind out the match. Nearly all advantage right now is graveyard based, either through delve or recursion like Ojutai's Command and Den Protector. Big part of why Anafenza is so powerful. So spells like Touch of the Void, Complete Disregard, Radiant Purge, Burn Away and Learn from the Past provide a budget option for attacking the graveyard.

I take a 2 pronged approached in my current deck and side in Burn Away and Ugin. Burn Away in response to a Den Protector flip trigger is incredibly satisfying.
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Lycodrake
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby Lycodrake » 21 Nov 2015, 05:20

I got creamed at FNM last night. Lost all 3 matches of the night: Ulamog Ramp, Dark Jeskai, and Esper Tokens.
I'm pretty sure I've decided to try to invest more in the Ramp route, now, but any other recommendations would be appreciated: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/23-03-15 ... e-eternal/
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby fantôme » 21 Nov 2015, 06:30

For those out there looking for a budget option, this is dirt cheap and barrels of fun: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/21-11-15-QUO-mill/
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Phi
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby Phi » 25 Nov 2015, 05:09

So last FNM I faced against a B/G Eldrazi ramp deck without having Infinite Obliteration in my sideboard (yet). I countered 4 Ulamogs and proceeded to win the game with my undying manabase :)
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Lycodrake
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby Lycodrake » 05 Dec 2015, 05:21

Last night I went to a different nearby LGS. The store has much more variety in product than my usual one and honestly the people I played against had more innovative and/or fun decks to play against. I went 1-3 but I at least had fun.

Goozled myself in buying packs, though. 3 for 10usd - sure Wynaut play the lottery, I thought. Wound up with a fifth Sunscorch Regent, a Blood-Chin Fanatic, and a Pristine Skywise. Not my best luck in opening packs.
I did however get a second Blighted Woodland and 2 Hedron Archives from the common+uncommon boxes.
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RedNightmare
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby RedNightmare » 06 Dec 2015, 11:38

Ok, so I plan on attending next weeks FNM standard with a GB Aristocrats deck.

Click to Expand
Lands (24)
7 Forest
7 Swamp
4 Jungle Hollow
4 Llanowar Wastes
2 Rogue's Passage

Creatures (27)
4 Blisterpod
1 Warden of the First Tree
4 Zulaport Cutthroat
2 Sultai Emissary
2 Hangarback Walker
1 Rot Shambler
4 Catacomb Sifter
3 Nantuko Husk
1 Grim Haruspex
2 Smothering Abomination
2 Whisperwood Elemental
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang

Noncreatures (9)
1 Vampiric Rites
4 Bone Splinters
2 Evolutionary Leap
2 Murderous Cut

Sideboard
4 Jaddi Offshoot
3 Duress
2 Ultimate Price
3 Complete Disregard
1 Murderous Cut
1 Whisperwood Elemental
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang


I was wondering if people had any suggestions for sideboard changes, because I don't really have any good idea what decks are in right now. I'm also considering replacing the Grim Haruspex with another Smothering Abomination.
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fantôme
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby fantôme » 06 Dec 2015, 12:35

I really like Haruspex for the potential manifest value, but a third Abomination is probably the right move. Sideboard-wise: it depends on your LGS's meta, but Minister of Pain and Fleshbag/Executioner work with the deck and can be really useful, and I'm a big fan of Aerial Volley for those Mantis Riders and Thopters.

Let us know how you get on, this is a really interesting deck and something I definitely want to try out one day.
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square1
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby square1 » 06 Dec 2015, 12:39

RedNightmare wrote:Ok, so I plan on attending next weeks FNM standard with a GB Aristocrats deck.

Click to Expand
Lands (24)
7 Forest
7 Swamp
4 Jungle Hollow
4 Llanowar Wastes
2 Rogue's Passage

Creatures (27)
4 Blisterpod
1 Warden of the First Tree
4 Zulaport Cutthroat
2 Sultai Emissary
2 Hangarback Walker
1 Rot Shambler
4 Catacomb Sifter
3 Nantuko Husk
1 Grim Haruspex
2 Smothering Abomination
2 Whisperwood Elemental
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang

Noncreatures (9)
1 Vampiric Rites
4 Bone Splinters
2 Evolutionary Leap
2 Murderous Cut

Sideboard
4 Jaddi Offshoot
3 Duress
2 Ultimate Price
3 Complete Disregard
1 Murderous Cut
1 Whisperwood Elemental
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang


I was wondering if people had any suggestions for sideboard changes, because I don't really have any good idea what decks are in right now. I'm also considering replacing the Grim Haruspex with another Smothering Abomination.


I might recommend Ruinous Path over Ultimate Price or Complete Disregard to maximize the ways you can kill Anafenza (depending on the popularity of Atarka Red). Abzan has been pretty popular online and in my local area and Anafenza is a beating against Aristocrats.

Also, depending on whether Eldrazi Ramp is a thing in your area, you might want some additional hand attack like Transgress the Mind, Despise, or Infinite Obliteration. The deck might not pressure them enough otherwise before they can ramp to Ugin or Ulamog.

Good luck!
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Phi
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby Phi » 08 Dec 2015, 05:45

Out of curiosity, what is everyone's local meta? Mine is primarily Dark Jeskai and Abzan Red, with almost no one playing Gideon.
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby Lycodrake » 08 Dec 2015, 06:39

Dark Jeskai, Ramp-into-Ulamog, and Abzan Midrange are the "tier 1" decks I've had to play against at FNMs around the area.
GB Aristocrats is probably the most common "tier 2" (or whatever) and I've gone up against someone using a WU "Ugin and His Son Ojutai" Control deck.
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square1
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby square1 » 08 Dec 2015, 08:11

Phi wrote:Out of curiosity, what is everyone's local meta? Mine is primarily Dark Jeskai and Abzan Red, with almost no one playing Gideon.


Abzan and Esper Dragons in my area currently. Pretty consistently have about 10 netdeckers (edit: not that there's anything wrong with that!) and 3-4 brewers.
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby fantôme » 08 Dec 2015, 10:08

Meta approximate: 50% dark jeskai, 40% other established decks (of which half straight netdecks, half variations of), 10% brews. Sadly it seems Standard is getting rather stale around my neck of the woods, dark jeskai is so dominant that winning a match will usually result in facing it in the next round.
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby Lycodrake » 08 Dec 2015, 10:48

I'm considering making a Budget Vile Aggregate deck.
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square1
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby square1 » 08 Dec 2015, 10:57

Lycodrake wrote:I'm considering making a Budget Vile Aggregate deck.


I was just thinking the other day that could be good. Just on its own it's big enough to block Anafenza and Rhino, and comes down in time to do so. Maybe some kind of BR devoid aggro with Wasteland Strangler and Dust Stalker could do work. The synergy between Aggregate and Hangarback is certainly real.
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Lycodrake
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby Lycodrake » 08 Dec 2015, 11:11

square1 wrote:
Lycodrake wrote:I'm considering making a Budget Vile Aggregate deck.


I was just thinking the other day that could be good. Just on its own it's big enough to block Anafenza and Rhino, and comes down in time to do so. Maybe some kind of BR devoid aggro with Wasteland Strangler and Dust Stalker could do work. The synergy between Aggregate and Hangarback is certainly real.

Ghostfire Blade is icing on the cake, too, because if you're playing "Red Devoid/colorless matters" then you have +2/+2 very quickly from it with little expense. There's also budget versions that wouldn't absolutely need Hangarback, but the Walker would be superb either way.
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fantôme
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby fantôme » 08 Dec 2015, 13:43

Vile Aggregate seems to be one of those amazingly powerful cards that is hardly ever played, I'd love to see more of him on the table. My personal favourite is temur Aggregate with Assault Formation, and his buddies Tide Drifter and Benthic Infiltrator.
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby Lycodrake » 08 Dec 2015, 13:54

I don't know - Assault Formation feels like it would make Aggregate weaker when it could have 6+ power.
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby fantôme » 08 Dec 2015, 23:46

The reason I like Aggregate Formation is that you only need 2 cards to make a 5/5 on turn 3, whereas regular Aggregate you need more cards (or more turns with something like From Beyond, or just a lot more mana).
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby Phi » 10 Dec 2015, 02:05

Speaking as someone who has an assault formation deck, it generally won't benefit from adding red, even if you have the proper manabase. Blue has enough creatures with big butts that can come in on turns 1 and 2, and the real challenge of the deck is getting the assault formation anyway. The main problem, however, is that this meta is not very kind for brewers. The power level 4-colour value decks is simply too high for a durdly combo deck; at least in my local meta.

As for BR aggro, I am now making this exact deck as a Christmas gift for a friend who is looking to get into Magic. I will post some results after some playtesting.
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby Lycodrake » 10 Dec 2015, 04:37

Phi wrote:The main problem, however, is that this meta is not very kind for brewers. The power level 4-colour value decks is simply too high...

Amen to this.
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby Phi » 10 Dec 2015, 04:56

It would be so much nicer when KTK and FRF rotate out, as much as I would hate losing my dear Silumgar and Dig Through Time. No fetches (worse Jace, stricter manabases, less staring into space while opponent shuffles their deck for the Xth time this round), no Crackling Doom (Ojutai gets better, I might get to finally brew Bant Dragons) and no Rhino (not really an issue for me, but I am sick of seeing it).

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