Standard Discussion

A place to talk about standard, casual, limited and everything in between.
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Lycodrake
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby Lycodrake » 07 Apr 2016, 10:42

square1 wrote:Much as I love Dromoka's Command, I think you might be better off with more Silk Wrap/ Stasis Snare in this deck. Your creatures are all so expensive, you can't really take advantage of playing a creature and the using Command, which means it's stuck in your hand whenever the opponent doesn't let you untap with a creature in play. Since you're also trying to ramp up, more early removal like those two or Declaration in Stone will let you stay alive long enough to get your big spells in play.

Thanks for the insight! Any recommendations regarding creatures? I made sure in my mtgsalvation post to have a few in the "Want/Need/???" portion.
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fantôme
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby fantôme » 07 Apr 2016, 13:02

@chetoos: Seconding Reflector Mage, he makes an awesome top-end for weenie decks to get rid of pesky blockers and delay opponents' threats, and combos brilliantly with Mockery. Your only other Mockery target other than Lieutenant is Thraben Inspector (who isn't really the aggressive 1-drop this deck wants, and will struggle to actually attack to get Mockery value), and whilst Mirror Mockery can be used defensively cast on your opponent's creatures - this doesn't get rid of them as blockers, and you have no evasion to get around that.

Port Town is better than Prairie Stream for low-CMC decks, as you care more about your lands coming in untapped early game than from turn 3 onwards. Both would be ideal if it is within your budget, (though 4 of both would leave your Prairie Streams pretty much always coming in tapped: but definitely more Towns than Streams as the latter count towards the former but not vice-versa).

Also you probably have enough creatures that, (if you can get ahold of one), a single Westvale Abbey wouldn't go amiss.

@Lycodrake: have you considered Oath of Nissa? You have a veritable toolbox of creatures going on with Den Protector, Dragonslayer and a variety of big guys - being able to sift for the right creature for the situation could be very useful.

Deathcap Cultivator is strictly better than Gilder for the possible deathtouch value, if that's within budget.

I'm really on the fence about Linvala, but I really want to like her, I'd love to know how often you get value from her.

@square1: that Jund deck is terrifying, the only thing that concerns me is the manabase: you have more red sources but fewer red cards - I know that the "mutual friend" of three colours is always going to be the heaviest with the current fixing, but with double castings in both black and green, maybe just a couple of Llanowar Wastes in place of Mountains?
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby Lycodrake » 07 Apr 2016, 13:45

Thank you for the reply, fantôme (been depressed at the lack of response on other mtg forums).
I actually had an Oath of Nissa and like a fool traded it away. >.>
Deathcap Cultivator is more than likely in budget, yes! As for Linvala, once I get another copy of Sigarda, I'll probably sideboard Linvala.
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chetoos
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby chetoos » 07 Apr 2016, 14:17

fantôme wrote:@chetoos: Seconding Reflector Mage, he makes an awesome top-end for weenie decks to get rid of pesky blockers and delay opponents' threats, and combos brilliantly with Mockery. Your only other Mockery target other than Lieutenant is Thraben Inspector (who isn't really the aggressive 1-drop this deck wants, and will struggle to actually attack to get Mockery value), and whilst Mirror Mockery can be used defensively cast on your opponent's creatures - this doesn't get rid of them as blockers, and you have no evasion to get around that.

Port Town is better than Prairie Stream for low-CMC decks, as you care more about your lands coming in untapped early game than from turn 3 onwards. Both would be ideal if it is within your budget, (though 4 of both would leave your Prairie Streams pretty much always coming in tapped: but definitely more Towns than Streams as the latter count towards the former but not vice-versa).

Also you probably have enough creatures that, (if you can get ahold of one), a single Westvale Abbey wouldn't go amiss.

I actually took your advice here, figuring that reflector mage is like a better version of the Ojutai's breath that I had, since I can mirror mockery it. Also, the thought of swinging and using the token from mirror mockery to activate the abbey is soooo tempting.
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fantôme
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby fantôme » 07 Apr 2016, 14:54

A point to note: you won't be able to attack with Ormendahl on the same turn as sacrificing a Mockery token to the Abbey, giving your opponent a turn to find removal (and a vicious 6-for-1 in their favour).
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby square1 » 07 Apr 2016, 15:33

fantôme wrote:@square1: that Jund deck is terrifying, the only thing that concerns me is the manabase: you have more red sources but fewer red cards - I know that the "mutual friend" of three colours is always going to be the heaviest with the current fixing, but with double castings in both black and green, maybe just a couple of Llanowar Wastes in place of Mountains?


Yea, I'm still trying to puzzle out the mana. I'm leery of the pain lands just because they don't advance the basic land synergies of the other duals. I also need to figure out a sideboard. I currently have zero ways to deal with Ormendahl for instance, and less interaction in general than I'd like. I have to figure out if the advantages of Collected Company outweigh the cap it puts on non-creature spells in your deck. I could see cutting the Companies and Advocates for burn/removal. In a non-ramp matchup, I might want to bring in more planeswalkers like Chandra and become more mid-rangey. With Den Protector / Raptor I'm already pretty well positioned to grind someone out.

Thanks for the feedback!
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby fantôme » 09 Apr 2016, 22:08

The one thing Collected Company does for me in that deck is make it cool. Which for most people is probably not considered criteria for deciding what gets into a deck?

Another take on w/u humans, less aggressive early on but more ETBs and more Fresh Prince: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/09-04-16-qen-humans/
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby RadioshackRaider » 12 Apr 2016, 15:16

So I've built my standard deck and I'm not sure what I could have in the SB or if the Main is missing anything obvious. http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/mono-red-2016/ Any help given is appreciated.
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby square1 » 13 Apr 2016, 07:46

RadioshackRaider wrote:So I've built my standard deck and I'm not sure what I could have in the SB or if the Main is missing anything obvious. http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/mono-red-2016/ Any help given is appreciated.


16 land is very aggressive, especially since you have some 3 drops. And your two X spells, Fall of the Titans and Avacyn's Judgment, don't work as well without more mana. I think the Judgment is reasonable given the success of Human tribal lately. Picking off a Lieutenant or two X/1s before they grow could be very powerful. Abbott of Keral Keep is also less effective without the likely chance of revealing a land or having enough mana to play it and cast something else, which means you want to get to 3-4 mana. I would suggest cutting the Falls and adding more land and maybe more Judgments. With your deck being mono-red you could try adding some utility lands without much cost like Blighted Gorge.

Hope that helps!
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby RadioshackRaider » 13 Apr 2016, 13:50

The X spells are the least exciting part of this deck to me. Avacyn's Judgement rarely gets cast when I play-test, and so does Fall of the Titans. I've tried Blighted Gorge before and it's really underwhelming. I would play it if I did what I wanted to and played Sea Gate Wreckage. I do think I could do with 2 more land though.
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby fantôme » 13 Apr 2016, 14:45

Running out of gas seems like mono-red's main concern, Wreckage & Gorge give you a little bit of late-game reach (and the latter helps turn on Scourge Wolf), but in a deck of only 16-18 lands I think there is a danger of cutting too many red sources. On the plus side though, colourless mana sources let you sideboard in Immobilizer Eldrazi, who has the potential to ruin a lot of popular decks.

Unfortunately the x-spells both require some setup (Fall of the Titans moreso), so don't make particularly good top-decks either.

Other than splashing blue for Day's Undoing, I'm not sure what the solution is.

The other reason I don't like x-spells is that their CMC-to-actual-cost ratio is unfavourable with Sin Prodder's ability: opponent chooses to bin a revealed Avacyn's Judgement and take 2 damage, when the spell itself is capable of doing a lot more damage - whereas something like Fiery Temper is much better Prodded as 3 damage or 3 damage.

Red has some decent combat tricks at the moment, Titan's Strength on a Scourge Wolf eats a Reality Smasher, and there's a couple that give trample to get those last few points of damage through.

There's also some great sideboard burn options, maybe consider mainboarding a couple of Roasts (very likely to have good targets), and sideboarding out for Tears/Volley/Smash/whatever where appropriate.

But then so: Village Messenger is probably the strongest aggro turn 1 play at the moment, I'd recommend a fourth copy.

Hope to see mono-red back and kicking arse again!
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby RadioshackRaider » 13 Apr 2016, 16:24

I think Fall will straight up come out the deck for something, but I'm unsure what. I have 3 Zurgos and a play-set of Roast, and a spare Village Messenger. If I played the Colourless lands I'd feel like I'd have to go up to 20 land and play three of each. That would let me happily play Immobilizer Eldrazi. I did consider the red Eldrazi that can stop big but creatures from blocking as well as I felt that it'd help me be more aggressive in the late game. I've also considered Tormenting Voice in the deck as well as a way to get me cards. I think I need a proper side board though. Without knowing anything about Standard right now, I have no clue on how to construct one.
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Booster
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby Booster » 14 Apr 2016, 15:35

Putting a deck together for game day and would love some feedback and sideboard suggestions.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/my-deck- ... at-itself/

It had Avacyn in it in an earlier draft, but she seemed to be bad for the deck. In play testing this deck almost always came off worse when she flipped. I also had Westvale Abbey in an earlier version, it was cut mostly due to cost, I'm trying to keep things kind of cheap (I already have a lot of the pricy pieces like the Nahiri's)
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square1
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby square1 » 14 Apr 2016, 18:39

Booster wrote:Putting a deck together for game day and would love some feedback and sideboard suggestions.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/my-deck- ... at-itself/

It had Avacyn in it in an earlier draft, but she seemed to be bad for the deck. In play testing this deck almost always came off worse when she flipped. I also had Westvale Abbey in an earlier version, it was cut mostly due to cost, I'm trying to keep things kind of cheap (I already have a lot of the pricy pieces like the Nahiri's)


The Flameblade Angel seems a bit greedy with the 22 lands.
This feels to some extent like the BW warrior deck from the last rotation, where you're very aggressive and removal heavy with some tribal synergies. In combination with your multiple double strikers, I might suggest more ways to pump your team for big attacks, such as Reckless Bushwhacker, Titan's Strength, or even Senseless Rage to take advantage of your madness outlets.

You don't have any 1 drops, which Thalia's Lieutenant would really like to see.

I could also see going in a more equipment oriented direction to support Hanweir Militia Captain with Captain's Claws, and then maybe Stone Haven Outfitter to provide more card advantage and benefit from equipping. I'm not sure that's a great plan, just because the format seems removal heavy, punishing equipping, and moves away from Human tribal, but it'd be interesting.

For SB, I might recommend Tears of Valakut to answer opposing Avacyns, something like Stasis Snare or Angelic Purge to answer Ramp deck giant threats or Goldknight Castigator to put a fast evasive clock on them, and more Avacyn's Judgment to answer opposing WW decks to kill off their X/1s. Kessig Forgemaster could also be interesting in that roll particularly if you go in a more equipment heavy direction.

I might honestly recommend Angelic Purge as a main deck inexpensive monetary answer to Always Watching, Ormendahl, and Avacyn which all appear to be popular right now.

Hope that helps with your thinking. Best of luck :)
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby square1 » 14 Apr 2016, 19:15

I made a rough sketch of BW Zombie Sacrifice/Reanimator deck.

Click to Expand
Creature (21)
3x Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim
4x Diregraf Colossus
1x Emeria Shepherd
4x Fleshbag Marauder
2x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
3x Mindwrack Demon
4x Relentless Dead

Land (25)
4x Caves of Koilos
2x Drownyard Temple
4x Forsaken Sanctuary
4x Plains
2x Sea Gate Wreckage
4x Shambling Vent
5x Swamp

Sorcery (6)
4x Angelic Purge
2x Ever After

Instant (2)
2x Anguished Unmaking

Enchantment (4)
4x Sinister Concoction

Planeswalker (2)
2x Sorin, Grim Nemesis


Kalitas + Relentless Dead is pretty great, as well as with Angelic Purge or Ayli. Mindwrack Demon and Sinister Concoction setup Ever After, which makes the creatures zombies. Emeria Shepherd is just a thought as a good reanimation target that also reanimates, but something like Linvala or just more zombies might be better. Seems decent at grinding people out. Might be too vulnerable to Declaration in Stone exile effects.

On that thought, if everyone seems to be playing Declaration in Stone, does that mean the Clue deck is even better?

I'm honestly not sure what to do for the SOI Game Day. I have lots of fun deck ideas, but I'm not gonna have hardly any opportunity to get cards and test since it's already only 2 weeks away. My local group has a lot of Spikes who regularly go to SCG events, so as tempting as it is to bring something fun, it's really not a good time unless your deck is also T1-2 competitive. :-/
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby square1 » 15 Apr 2016, 06:02

Just to share one semi-interesting idea I had:

Ojutai Exemplar Turn 4 into Turn 5 Nahiri = Tap any creature, then -2 to exile it. Exemplar is also human for tribal concerns. Could be powerful in a spell heavy Boros deck.
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby Lycodrake » 16 Apr 2016, 07:02

I went 2-2-0 last night. Went against BR Vampires, RW Tokens->Ormendahl, Red-Colorless, and Bant Company.
  • Won against BR Vampires 2-0, but have learned to be wary of Malevolent Whispers.
  • Won against RW Tokens 2-0, where my opponent's finisher seemed to be Ormendahl or going wide. I just had the better opening hands and draws.
  • Lost to Red-Colorless 1-2; the first two games were super-fun and lengthy, while I got steamrolled in the last one by Reality Smasher.
  • Lost to Bant Company 2-0, but not much to say there.
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fantôme
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby fantôme » 16 Apr 2016, 12:36

Big fliers are usually pretty solid against Bant Company, but for more specific sideboard options - I've had great success with Hallowed Moonlight, and White has some very good hard removal at the moment which I feel would be useful.

Red Eldrazi is a tricky one for Selesnya, Declaration in Stone can blow away Thopter tokens but otherwise isn't a good tempo play, combat tricks can get around 2-for-1-ing yourself against a Reality Smasher but doesn't help against all those Thopters. The one thing that can handle both is Skysnare Spider?

Still haven't had a chance to get to an FNM recently, but managed to get in a couple of friendly games with my spirits, (updated: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/peppers-ghost/). Won 2-1 against both w/u humans and b/r vampires. The deck is very fun and surprisingly complex to play: despite a very low curve you generally don't want to play anything for the first few turns, it's very reactive and plays like a cross between tempo and control, but can be very aggressive at times too. I kind of love it.
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby Lycodrake » 16 Apr 2016, 15:51

I'll definitely consider both Hallowed Moonlight and Skysnare Spider! The former is definitely something needed in sideboards right now and the latter is a very efficient defense.

I was regularly complemented on my deck and it was very encouraging - I had several people sigh in good-natured frustration when they had removed 1 Sunscorch Regent only for it to have a sibling cast the next turn.
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby fantôme » 17 Apr 2016, 11:29

Taking a stab at mono-red: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/what-the-devil-1/

Hellion is a beast with Angel/Devils/Judgement/Chandra, Goggles & Mirrorpool make entirely too many tokens and interact interestingly with Avacyn's Judgement (someone correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that even if you madness-cast AJ and copy it, the copy deals 2 damage rather than the usual x-spell copy = 0), and of course Westvale Abbey loves Devil tokens.

Rough draft, suggestions welcome!
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby Atifexe » 17 Apr 2016, 14:28

If you copy an X-cost spell, and the effect doesn't say "You may cast the copy without paying it's mana cost", then X is whatever X was when you cast the spell. Similarly for paying an alternate cost, etc - as long as you aren't casting the copy, all the same decisions/payments/alternate costs are assumed to have been made/paid for the copy.
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby Kapol » 17 Apr 2016, 22:20

So game day is coming up. I'm trying to decide what to build. I'm thinking either CoCo Pups (R/G werewolves) or Zada/Silverfur Partisan combo. Here are the lists I'm working on. Zada combo and CoCo Pups Advice, either on the decks themselves or which to play, would be appreciated. Though I'm working on a fairly tight budget.
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby Phi » 18 Apr 2016, 00:29

CoCo Pups looks more fun to play, and also more consistent in my opinion. I would suggest some removal though, and having 4x Game Trail in the manabase.
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby square1 » 18 Apr 2016, 10:29

After the Friday Nights from this past weekend, I feel like I have to play Jund at Game Day now :)

I have the list I posted before:

Click to Expand
Land (25)
2x Cinder Glade
3x Foreboding Ruins
4x Forest
4x Game Trail
2x Hissing Quagmire
3x Mountain
3x Smoldering Marsh
4x Swamp

Creature (25)
4x Asylum Visitor
4x Deathmist Raptor
4x Den Protector
3x Drana, Liberator of Malakir
4x Heir of Falkenrath
4x Olivia, Mobilized for War
2x Sylvan Advocate

Instant (6)
4x Collected Company
2x Kolaghan's Command

Planeswalker (4)
4x Arlinn Kord


I'm wondering if a more spell heavy variant would be better, cutting CoCo, Deathmist Raptor, and Sylvan Advocate for a Lightning Axe/Fiery Temper package, Avacyn's Judgment, and Chandra, Flamecaller, going more madness heavy and giving me instant speed answers to most creature threats. Advocate's maybe a little slow and I'm finding in testing that I'm more often throwing it away to Olivia to give something haste or throwing away the land it needs to get to 6 to give something haste. Raptor is great, but less so with all the exile removal around. I could also see finding space for Atarka's Command as a main deck answer to the lifelink from Ormendahl and more reach with burn.
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby fantôme » 18 Apr 2016, 11:40

@Atifexe: thanks for setting me straight, good to know should it come up.

@Kapol: CoCo Pups is best deck name ever, also the deck does look like a lot of fun. I'm wondering if there are particular styles of deck that lend themselves better than others to get your puppies transforming? For instance does having a lower mana curve to any significant degree force your opponent to react more, thus running out of spells to cast more quickly?

@square1: Olivia, Drana & Arlinn all are at their best in creature-heavy decks. Shifting more towards spells makes Jund no less awesome, but I feel like the deck will end up a very different kettle of fish - consider building the spell-heavier version from scratch rather than trying to accommodate the spells into the existing shell? There may very well be many similarities between the two versions, just something to bear in mind (and a trap I've fallen into myself on more than one occasion).

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