Code of Lawful Evil

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Preacher
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Code of Lawful Evil

Postby Preacher » 13 Jul 2013, 18:08

So I'm starting with D&D group, they need a rogue type character, and I've been wanting to play an assassin for a while. The assassin class requires you to be 'any evil'. My thinking is that given the rest of the group are apparently various shades of good, going with Lawful Evil and having a code of some sort, along the lines of Dexter meets Agent 47, will make them less likely to murder me if they find out I'm evil. My issue is that I've never seen Dexter and I've been sitting here 20 minutes and all I've got is:

1) Don't kill the innocent
2) Kill only the target

Which seem less of a code, and more of a carte blanche to kill anyone who dips into evil for whatever reason. I could use some help fleshing it out some more, or am I going about this wrong?
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Re: Code of Lawful Evil

Postby ElFuzzy » 13 Jul 2013, 18:14

No no, Lawful Evil kills everyone, cause we're all sinners.

But if you want actual help, I guess don't do anything excessive. I'm reminded of a Imperial quest in SWTOR where you're choice is to poison the water for a Sith and they'll all die slow painful deaths, or poison the water and they all just die. The later is the light side choice because the Sith is studying whether suffering demoralizes them, but is ignoring all the data that says it doesn't.

A little long winded but that's what comes to mind.
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Re: Code of Lawful Evil

Postby Lurkon » 13 Jul 2013, 19:24

The most important part of the Lawful Evil alignment is that laws are important to you. Some LE characters won't break promises, others won't break laws personally.
I think only killing the target is a good start. Rather than "don't kill the innocent," maybe "Won't kill a child," sounds good. "Never telling a lie" is a fun one, I think. Just because you can't tell a lie doesn't mean you have to tell the truth, it just makes the Bluff skill more interesting. :)
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Re: Code of Lawful Evil

Postby TheGhostOfZero » 13 Jul 2013, 20:16

Watch NBC's Hannibal. You'll get somewhat of an idea.
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Re: Code of Lawful Evil

Postby Preacher » 13 Jul 2013, 20:19

Lurkon wrote: "Never telling a lie" is a fun one, I think. Just because you can't tell a lie doesn't mean you have to tell the truth, it just makes the Bluff skill more interesting. :)


While I love the idea of being a deceitful man who doesn't lie but twists and turns the truth that it makes roller coasters blush. Having played a Paladin honour bound never to lie, I have found that in practice, lying outright is less agrivating and less likely to provoke sudden lightning bolts
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Re: Code of Lawful Evil

Postby Bergie » 14 Jul 2013, 07:04

Just remember, Evil characters tend not to care about those around them and what happens to them. A Lawful Evil character is a sociopath and everyone is disposable as they are simply tools or victims. The restrictions re: children is likely valid, but innocent pushes you into at least Neutral.

Same thing, remember there is no spirit of the law, only the word of the law. You have no worry about seeing others suffer, so you likely will not compromise unless you can see how it advances your aims.
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Re: Code of Lawful Evil

Postby Master Gunner » 14 Jul 2013, 12:45

Watch In Bruges.

Not necessarily because it's related to this (though it is), but you simply should watch that movie.
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Re: Code of Lawful Evil

Postby TheGhostOfZero » 14 Jul 2013, 14:09

Yes. If only for the scene with the midget who's high as balls on cocaine.
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Re: Code of Lawful Evil

Postby ocelotteranian » 14 Jul 2013, 18:34

I think the key to making a Lawful Evil character sympathetic/intriguing enough to stay alive (and fun) in a party of Good-aligned folks is to have your character's self-imposed code make sense due to their life and experiences.

That is to say, if I were a hero who found out someone I'd been travelling with was evil with a capital E, ruthless, sadistic, deceitful, the works—but they refused to kill children and claimed that made us Not So Different(tm), well... let's say I'd find a way to not work with that person anymore. A haphazard list of concessions to common morality do not a compelling lawful code make. Arbitrary restrictions for an LE's character's Evil always seem like a desperate ploy to convince the heroes they can still be friends.

However! If that same LE party member had said to me, "Yes, I am a killer, a liar, a thief—I am a bad person, but I have my standards. I would never harm a child—I remember too well my own difficult childhood. I could never inflict suffering on a young soul," then that would be a different story. I would see there was method in their deliciously evil madness. And I might even have some sympathy for their point of view, which is where all the really fun Good/Evil interaction comes from!

TL;DR: I find the most intriguing/believable Lawful Evil characters are the ones whose codes make sense to them personally. Otherwise it feels like the character wants to be evil but couldn't commit to it.
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Re: Code of Lawful Evil

Postby ElFuzzy » 14 Jul 2013, 18:38

And when you come to a situation when you're completely unsure what your character would do, always ALWAYS opt to murder you're entire party so that no one will know of you're faltering.
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Re: Code of Lawful Evil

Postby Lurkon » 14 Jul 2013, 18:59

ElFuzzy wrote:And when you come to a situation when you're completely unsure what your character would do, always ALWAYS opt to murder you're entire party so that no one will know of you're faltering.

That really seems a bit more chaotic...
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Re: Code of Lawful Evil

Postby ElFuzzy » 14 Jul 2013, 19:31

No witnesses no sins, if anyone asks you were last in line when they all died to a horrible trap.
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Re: Code of Lawful Evil

Postby AdmiralMemo » 15 Jul 2013, 12:58

If you can brave TV Tropes without getting sucked in too much, you might get some pointers from these pages:

Noble Demon
Even Evil Has Standards
Affably Evil

Depending on the back-story you want to craft, to get the into intentions of the character, you may or may not want to dip into Well-Intentioned Extremist, too.
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Re: Code of Lawful Evil

Postby The Architect » 15 Jul 2013, 15:24

To play a lawful evil well, you need a code, but it's less a code of what he must do, but more of a code of what he will not do. Anything that's not restricted by that code is fair game. You want to play a Noble Monster, so part of that code could be "Will Not Steal", "Kill Only Criminals", "Do Not Lie, Except To People You're Going To Kill", "Never Break A Promise, Especially If You've Promised To Kill That Person".

And always remember, what an Evil character does is right, it is just. Other people might not be able to understand why you do what you do, but it must be done (see also Jack Bauer from "24").
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Re: Code of Lawful Evil

Postby Preacher » 17 Jul 2013, 17:56

I like that noble demon idea, after losing 12 hours to TV tropes damn you Memo, plus having a code forbidding things and trying dodge and duck around my own laws has a nice ring of evil to it. I'm thinking along the lines of:

1) Do Not Kill More Than Necessary
2) Do Not Kill Those Following the Law
3) Do Not Break the contract
4) Do Not Kill Children
5) Do not Steal for personal wealth (I'm an assassin not a thief, but even assassin's steal keys, papers stuff which will help get the job done)
6) Do Not Lie to a client (I'm already taking money to kill someone, lying will just ensure that I'll kill the wrong person)

Just a tangentially related note, I've been informed that there is a paladin in the group. Lawful or not, he's probably going to kill me the moment he uses detect evil. Any ideas on how to avoid this, or should I just carry around a lead sheet and every time he uses it merely hold it up and tell him to stop oppressing my culture, you ethnocentric bitch
Do you guys mind. I'm trying to write an essay

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This is a thing my and my friend run.
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Re: Code of Lawful Evil

Postby Master Gunner » 18 Jul 2013, 03:31

I vote for the latter option.
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Re: Code of Lawful Evil

Postby Lyinginbedmon » 18 Jul 2013, 03:43

Lawful Evil is the guys who work within the rules to twist them for profit, be it their own or some illusory greater "good". The best Lawful Evil characters however are the mastermind schemer villains, who are content to sit back and watch plans unfold, tweaking things here and there, so that whilst everyone might get what they want, the mastermind is the one that benefits most.

As to the paladin, remember that they're Lawful Good, which means laws are important to them as well. So long as you don't actually commit a crime (which is the best way for Lawful Evil characters to operate), he might not enjoy your company but he can't kill you without violating the same laws.

I'm not sure if it's changed in your version of things, but the 3.5 Core paladin has a code of conduct that actually outright forbids association with characters of evil alignment. Not sure how hard-and-fast that'll be applied though.
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Re: Code of Lawful Evil

Postby TheGhostOfZero » 18 Jul 2013, 04:23

Inspired by this thread, I just made Hannibal Lecter for the campaign I'm running with some friends of mine.
/fingergun
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Re: Code of Lawful Evil

Postby Preacher » 18 Jul 2013, 04:52

Lyinginbedmon wrote:I'm not sure if it's changed in your version of things, but the 3.5 Core paladin has a code of conduct that actually outright forbids association with characters of evil alignment. Not sure how hard-and-fast that'll be applied though.


I'm guessing its going to be played pretty straight given the DM's response was that its the Paladin's job to find out and raise the alarm, not mine. So I'm thinking he's not going to intervene should the paladin decide to flambé me.

TheGhostOfZero wrote:Inspired by this thread, I just made Hannibal Lecter for the campaign I'm running with some friends of mine.


I can only respond by saying that I will be disappointed if you do not eat the corpse of at least one party memeber
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This is a thing my and my friend run.
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Re: Code of Lawful Evil

Postby TheGhostOfZero » 18 Jul 2013, 04:59

Preacher wrote:
TheGhostOfZero wrote:Inspired by this thread, I just made Hannibal Lecter for the campaign I'm running with some friends of mine.


I can only respond by saying that I will be disappointed if you do not eat the corpse of at least one party memeber

If I find their conduct distasteful, I'm sure I'll find them quite tasty.
/fingergun
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Re: Code of Lawful Evil

Postby DSmaster21 » 18 Jul 2013, 08:15

Typically the way I DM lawful evil characters is as someone who wants as much wealth and power as they can get without getting caught. As a general rule they try to avoid pissing off the good characters enough to unleash the chaotic good ones while also being untouchable by the lawful good. For a example in the campaign I have mapped out a local baron has been behind many bandit attacks (along with much bigger schemes) and such but none of them kill unless the person fights back because the baron can bail them out as indentured servants and move them to another area to raid. The baron knows that any ties back to him can easily be explained and that the only people he has to worry about are chaotic good so he tries to avoid violence and such.
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Re: Code of Lawful Evil

Postby Tzimisce » 07 Aug 2013, 22:49

they use the laws to crush their opponents, or they become leaders and change the laws of the land to permit the killing of their enemies. but whatever they do they will keep control using the laws of the land.
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Re: Code of Lawful Evil

Postby Drecon » 08 Aug 2013, 01:14

Most important thing for an evil character seems to me that you have some kind of grand master plan worked out for the long run. It's the best reason to travel with a group of goody two-shoes, you're going to be needing them for something.
As an Assassin it's really tempting to try to go for an 'I want to kill lots of people'-character, but that doesn't make for a good story.

On the other hand: trying to set up a secret assassin's guild (recruiting other like-minded souls, trying to find a base of operations, and most importantly: trying to gain good standing with the people in power) might make for a good reason to go out and amass wealth and meet people all over the region. (although you might already have some grand scheme planned out of course)
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Re: Code of Lawful Evil

Postby Tzimisce » 08 Aug 2013, 17:52

lawful assassins are corrupt lawyers who blame people and levy laws against their victims so that they are lead off to the executioner. they will kill via proxy
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Re: Code of Lawful Evil

Postby Hepheastus » 04 Sep 2013, 05:10

Drecon wrote:Most important thing for an evil character seems to me that you have some kind of grand master plan worked out for the long run. It's the best reason to travel with a group of goody two-shoes, you're going to be needing them for something.


The most fun I ever had with a Character was a neutral evil rouge i played a while ago. I always imagined Neutral Evil as solely self-serving. Nothing was off the table if it meant a profit, slavery, poison you name it. If a law maker was giving him grieve they didn't wake up one morning. What made it so fun was that most of my exploits were done through agents and associates and the party didn't know of my Alignment. Which meant he acted...grudgingly good around the party because they would then defend him from harm. Also the fact that he was travelling with some very dangerous people intimidated rival crime bosses.
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