Friday Nights - Politics

Talk about the latest LRR draft videos or Friday Nights.
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Duckay
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Re: Friday Nights - Politics

Postby Duckay » 06 Nov 2013, 16:22

A cube is basically a selection of Magic cards that someone puts together to draft over and over again.
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Re: Friday Nights - Politics

Postby Can't Wear Hats » 06 Nov 2013, 17:18

Pimpin J wrote:I love the commander episodes, wish they were longer though :P

I never got a chance to play a commander game but damn they look fun and almost make me want to buy magic cards again.

But what the hell is a cube! :?:


In addition to what Duckay said, allow me to direct you to this conveniently informative episode of Tap Tap Concede!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6YJ5ifn2a8

(Cube discussion starts about 22 mins in)
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Re: Friday Nights - Politics

Postby perdidoparker » 06 Nov 2013, 19:56

All I know is that I NEED to see someone draft that cube! I would volunteer even.
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Re: Friday Nights - Politics

Postby Kapol » 06 Nov 2013, 22:34

Pimpin J wrote:I never got a chance to play a commander game but damn they look fun and almost make me want to buy magic cards again.


Well you're in luck! For $30, you can get a full pre-built commander deck. They're a pretty good starting point. The price point isn't that bad. And the decks themselves seem alright. I'd recommend one if you want to try commander.
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Re: Friday Nights - Politics

Postby Jenelmo » 07 Nov 2013, 04:18

phlip wrote:
Jenelmo wrote:The cards they choose for they cube seem way to good

Indeed... I disagree with the idea that Scrambleverse isn't a card...

I play with a guy who has what he calls a crap cube, with the worst cards he can find and Scrambleverse would be a first pick card easily, this is a cube where there is no morph creatures as a 2/2 for 3 is broken compered to the other creatures
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Re: Friday Nights - Politics

Postby Lord Hosk » 07 Nov 2013, 12:15

OK, I watched this episode again and everything didnt seem overly bright and washed out. There must have been some sort of codeing error when I watched it the first time.
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Re: Friday Nights - Politics

Postby Lancer » 07 Nov 2013, 13:22

Don't diss the Scrambleverse and Warp World. Those are cornerstones of my red shenanigans EDH deck.
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Re: Friday Nights - Politics

Postby Pimpin J » 07 Nov 2013, 15:12

Kapol wrote:
Pimpin J wrote:I never got a chance to play a commander game but damn they look fun and almost make me want to buy magic cards again.


Well you're in luck! For $30, you can get a full pre-built commander deck. They're a pretty good starting point. The price point isn't that bad. And the decks themselves seem alright. I'd recommend one if you want to try commander.



I would but unfortunately none of my friends play.
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Re: Friday Nights - Politics

Postby korvys » 07 Nov 2013, 15:28

I made new friends from the Magic players I met at my local game store :)
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Re: Friday Nights - Politics

Postby Duckay » 07 Nov 2013, 15:54

I did much the same thing! One of my dearest friends came from Magic.
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Re: Friday Nights - Politics

Postby Professor STAFF » 07 Nov 2013, 18:11

Duckay wrote:I did much the same thing! One of my dearest friends came from Magic.


Same here. Magic has given us actual friends, and so many great memories.

That's why I HATE this culture growing within Magic of the kind of angry punk "spike" player. Magic is a game, a fun, socializing game with a lot of skill, and strategy, and imagination and a bit ( a lot) of luck. When people turn it into "SERIOUS BUSINESS!" they are not only missing the point entirely, but also pissing on everyone else's parade.

What I love so much about Friday Nights is that they portray characters that I'd actually want to hang out with and be friends with. Watching this week's episode made me want to get a game of Commander with my friends, and I think I will. That what a lot of other folks don't get that LRR gets perfectly.
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Re: Friday Nights - Politics

Postby korvys » 07 Nov 2013, 18:52

Professor STAFF wrote:When people turn it into "SERIOUS BUSINESS!" they are not only missing the point entirely, but also pissing on everyone else's parade.

The thing is, those people like to play with other people like that.

As far as they're concerned, when people tell them that's it's not cool to net deck, or that they should play by house rules because it's more fun, etc, what they are actually saying is "The way you enjoy this game is different than the way I enjoy it, and therefore is not valid". Pissing on their(the spikes) parade, if you will.

People play magic for different reasons. If you don't want to play with the spiky guys, fair enough, but they aren't missing the point any more than you are. Friday Nights Cam is a perfect example. He doesn't fit into the Commander game, but both he and the others accept they enjoy Magic for different reasons, and are ok with that.

Of course some people are just assholes.
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Re: Friday Nights - Politics

Postby Lumar » 07 Nov 2013, 21:24

I love these episodes, I think it's the fact that I like watching people playing games and what not. I also now want to know what dark forces are being removed from the Moon Base.
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Re: Friday Nights - Politics

Postby Duckay » 07 Nov 2013, 23:05

Professor STAFF wrote:That's why I HATE this culture growing within Magic of the kind of angry punk "spike" player. Magic is a game, a fun, socializing game with a lot of skill, and strategy, and imagination and a bit ( a lot) of luck. When people turn it into "SERIOUS BUSINESS!" they are not only missing the point entirely, but also pissing on everyone else's parade.


I can't entirely agree with that. I like to go out to big events and play pseudo-competitively. That doesn't interfere with anyone else's ability to play casually, much less "piss on their parade".

Ultimately I suppose it's about there being a time and a place. If you want to play at the competitive level and take the game very seriously there, I applaud that. If you then take the same attitude to a casual setting, then you're potentially interfering with someone else's fun. And if that means you're being an outright jerk, well, then you're a jerk and I won't enjoy my time playing with you. But I've met a lot of really awesome people who treat the game incredibly seriously, so YMMV considerably.

Conversely, if you want to just play casually with friends, that's fine too. The same rule of "don't be a jerk" applies though.
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Re: Friday Nights - Politics

Postby Lord Hosk » 08 Nov 2013, 06:50

I think you are confused about what you consider competitive play, and what Professor staff is talking about.

When I played the first time, it was a bunch of young adults, geeks and nerds mostly, playing a game to pass time and socialize. Sure everyone likes to win but ultimately its a game and win or lose, you shuffle the cards and that game is over and the next one starts.

There is now a element, which at the stores I have gone to is not a insignificant amount of players, who are as you describe them jerks. People who are very aggressive and argumentative for no reason. You have described players who get incredibly angry because you say you want to respond to something they do, which they didnt plan for, for example:
"at the end of your main phase I"
"NO! I AM ALREADY IN MY COMBAT YOU CANT GO BACK!"
"im not going back im taking my priority"
"NO YOU HAVE TO TELL ME YOU ARE GOING TO DO THAT BEFORE I DO ANYTHING! I WOULDNT HAVE PLAYED THAT CARD!"
I think we have all seen things like that on a regular basis. These are people who flip cars and set buildings on fire because their local professional team lost the championship game. Those type of people are not "just jerks" they are a detriment to the community and make the experience worse for everyone. The First store I was at had one guy like that, the store I was going to locally had a group of them who act like every game at a prerelease is the final table of a pro tour and winning or losing is the most important thing to ever happen.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to win, or being upset when something happens and you lose but when every play, every turn of the cards becomes a life altering event its unhealthy for you and does Piss on everyone's parade. Its the attitude of "if I cant win no one has fun" and from what I have seen that is becoming more common.
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Re: Friday Nights - Politics

Postby Duckay » 08 Nov 2013, 07:11

For a start, I really dislike people like that, but I think it's a bit unfair to equate poor sportsmanship like what you described to criminal acts like vandalism and arson.

I also think I know where the confusion comes from. Players like that, who do things like what you describe, aren't what I would consider "serious business Spike players". The "Spike" archetype is, as I understood it, the person who plays competitively and plays to win, enjoys playing the best deck in the format with a lot of money cards, probably plays at a lot of big tournaments, has their serious face on when playing the game. That's not usually (although is sometimes) the guy who wants to win at the expense of the rules of the game (the kind of person you described).
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Re: Friday Nights - Politics

Postby Professor STAFF » 08 Nov 2013, 07:32

Yeah, I in no way was expressing frustration with anyone playing competitively or anyone playing to win. I play to win too, but I enjoy playing and I do my best to never be rude or a jerk when I play.

What I was speaking against are players who are rude or jerks seemingly as a rule. They sit down across from you with a scowl and are not happy to be there. They'll do anything to win, including trying to trick you or intimidate you. In fact, they will tell you they love the aspect of the game that involves winning by psyching out their opponents: making them feel uncomfortable to encourage play mistakes. When they lose, they are angry and rude about it. When they win, they laugh and walk away.

Sorry if I used "spike" incorrectly. However, out of Timmy, Johnny, and Spike, I find it hard to see a Timmy or a Johnny acting as I have described. Perhaps a fourth category is needed, that of the Asshole Jerkface Poopie-Pants player?
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Re: Friday Nights - Politics

Postby asteriskreaper » 30 Nov 2013, 19:42

I really want that Diaochan lisT!!! Please! I don't do mono-red but if I did it would be a stax diaochan list, and have got to see that list.
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Re: Friday Nights - Politics

Postby JayBlanc » 01 Dec 2013, 02:13

I kind of know what you mean about 'Angry Spikes'. There was a player at my local draft night who tried to do something "In reaction to declaring combat" before the triggers on Ordeal of (...) went off.

I explained they could only do something at the end of my main phase, which I'd roll back to let them, or respond to the trigger going on the stack (508.2), or let those triggers resolve and play a spell/activate and ability in the priority exchange (508.3). You can't 'respond' to declaring combat before any 'enter into combat' triggers go off, because declaring combat is a turn-based action and doesn't use the stack (508.1).

They got vocal about it, and repeatedly insisted they could play in response to entering combat. I kept trying to ask them to say "On the end of your main phase", but they kept loudly saying that they were doing it "In response to combat". To be honest, I suspect that they were trying to use vocal pressure to sway the game.
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Re: Friday Nights - Politics

Postby Narcuru » 01 Dec 2013, 09:29

JayBlanc wrote:I kind of know what you mean about 'Angry Spikes'. There was a player at my local draft night who tried to do something "In reaction to declaring combat" before the triggers on Ordeal of (...) went off.

I explained they could only do something at the end of my main phase, which I'd roll back to let them, or respond to the trigger going on the stack (508.2), or let those triggers resolve and play a spell/activate and ability in the priority exchange (508.3). You can't 'respond' to declaring combat before any 'enter into combat' triggers go off, because declaring combat is a turn-based action and doesn't use the stack (508.1).

They got vocal about it, and repeatedly insisted they could play in response to entering combat. I kept trying to ask them to say "On the end of your main phase", but they kept loudly saying that they were doing it "In response to combat". To be honest, I suspect that they were trying to use vocal pressure to sway the game.


Actually you can respond to entering combat before those Ordeal triggers would go off. There is a step that isn't in the Main Phase but in the Combat Phase.

After you end your Main Phase he'll get priority, presumably he passed. Then comes the beginning of combat step where you will get priority to play instants and abilities, you passed (presumably be turning your guys sideways which is a shortcut but one you should never do because it gives him information he wants to know but shouldn't), and then he gets priority. That is when he wanted to play that spell or whatever. After that is the declare attackers step where you attack and the ordeal triggers get on the stack. Usually people say "entering combat?" because then both people know you are in the beginning of combat step before you attack.

The step is "507. Beginning of Combat Step." 507.3 says "Third, the active player gets priority. Players may cast spells and activate abilities." only after that do you get to actually declare your attacks. Ordeals only trigger after you attack and thus won't trigger until after you've declared them as attackers.

Granted he shouldn't be yelling about this, but he was "right." You are right he can't respond to declaring attackers but he does get a chance to play something before you actually attack with your guys. He also can't "respond" in the normal sense to any ability triggers that actually trigger on beginning of combat, but he can still play things that will resolve before they resolve and ordeals do not trigger on beginning of combat. They trigger on attacking.

That step is normally where people use tappers like Ephara's Warden or the like as it's the last point in time that you can use them before its too late. (the next time they have the ability to use them is after you declared all your attackers and by then (baring vigilance) all of them will already be tapped and attacking. Tapping them then does nothing)
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Re: Friday Nights - Politics

Postby JayBlanc » 01 Dec 2013, 10:36

Narcuru wrote:The step is "507. Beginning of Combat Step." 507.3 says "Third, the active player gets priority. Players may cast spells and activate abilities." only after that do you get to actually declare your attacks. Ordeals only trigger after you attack and thus won't trigger until after you've declared them as attackers.

Granted he shouldn't be yelling about this, but he was "right." You are right he can't respond to declaring attackers but he does get a chance to play something before you actually attack with your guys. He also can't "respond" in the normal sense to any ability triggers that actually trigger on beginning of combat, but he can still play things that will resolve before they resolve and ordeals do not trigger on beginning of combat. They trigger on attacking.

That step is normally where people use tappers like Ephara's Warden or the like as it's the last point in time that you can use them before its too late. (the next time they have the ability to use them is after you declared all your attackers and by then (baring vigilance) all of them will already be tapped and attacking. Tapping them then does nothing)


Sorry, you're right, I was misremembering. Functionally "End of your main phase" and "Beginning of Combat" are identical unless an effect triggers on the start of combat, I guess I'm too used to short-cuts in real-cards magic drafting to regularly remember they *can* be different unless there's cards in play that make it different.

He was still insisting he could respond after I'd declared attackers, and not wanting me to roll back to before I'd declared attackers. It didn't even make any difference to what he wanted to do, but he spent a lot of time trying to tell me he could respond to declaring attackers.
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Re: Friday Nights - Politics

Postby phlip » 01 Dec 2013, 14:34

JayBlanc wrote:Functionally "End of your main phase" and "Beginning of Combat" are identical unless an effect triggers on the start of combat

Well, not quite... if they cast something "at the end of your main phase", then after that resolves, you're still in your main phase, so you can cast sorcery-speed spells. If they instead wait until begin-combat (or the end step, as the equivalent for the post-combat main) then you can't cast sorcery-speed things afterward.

This is particularly relevant with bounce spells... bounce something in the main phase, and they can immediately replay it; bounce something EOT and they can't replay it until next turn. Bounce a haste creature in their pre-combat main, and they can replay it and attack with it this turn.

JayBlanc wrote:He was still insisting he could respond after I'd declared attackers, and not wanting me to roll back to before I'd declared attackers. It didn't even make any difference to what he wanted to do, but he spent a lot of time trying to tell me he could respond to declaring attackers.

OK, yeah, that's totally not legal, there's no opportunity to cast spells between you choosing your attackers and the Ordeal trigger going on the stack.
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Re: Friday Nights - Politics

Postby Duckay » 01 Dec 2013, 16:42

That said, I've been on the opposite side of that table. My opponent jumped ahead to declaring attacks, I explained that I wanted to do something in his Beginning of Combat phase, and he insisted that there was no such thing and in any case I had missed my opportunity. Eventually he told me in what I thought was a very condescending way, "We'll just pretend you did it in my Main Phase". It was a very unpleasant argument at the time, even more so now in hindsight when I realize that I probably came across like the "angry Spike" in that situation.
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Re: Friday Nights - Politics

Postby korvys » 02 Dec 2013, 16:55

I recommend calling a judge in all of those situations.

Some people think it's a jerk thing to do to call a judge, or that to do so is implying your opponent is cheating, but that what the judges are for. They want to help people understand. If anything, if judges should be called far more often for things like this, to try to get rid of that stigma.
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Re: Friday Nights - Politics

Postby Duckay » 03 Dec 2013, 16:34

I should be more willing to call a judge, it's true. I know the reason I don't is because I don't want to seem like a pain in the ass to the judges, or like a dick to my opponent, but I know that's the wrong way to think about it.

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