Smallpox

[Yaxley]

Yeah, I consider it just like "jackass".
And I think we do agree on that.

I remember being in the second grade and calling another kid a jackass based on this assumption. I didn't see anything wrong with it. The teacher did. I got in trouble.

I still kind of resent that. Especially since my application of the term was accurate. He really was a jackass.

[InsaneFool]

I assume they used Young Republicans because the term Republican is a more universal way of describing a right-wing platform...just about anyone who would watch this video would know the group they're talking about, whereas "conservative" is a more ambiguous term.

I'd say quite the opposite, in fact.

What i was trying to get at was that when someone says "Republican" you know what they're talking about, whereas "conservative" has a much broader set of meanings, including several just associated with political ideology.

*edited for quote phail*

[Master Gunner]

I can think of several different meanings to the term "Republican" as well, including several just associated with political ideology.

When it comes down to it, Republican was used here because it would be more recognizable in the states, where a large portion of LRR's viewers are, as well elsewhere because of the US's cultural "diffusion" to the rest of the world.

Also, it sounds better than "young conservatives".

[N3RV3]

Brad looks kind of like the author of XKCD.
Also his wiki picture is AWESOME!

[TomBrend]

Not really... other than having short brown hair and cleft chins.

[N3RV3]

Not really... other than having short brown hair and cleft chins.

maybe it's just that white people easily look similar.
Also they are both really awesome.

[TomBrend]

Not really... other than having short brown hair and cleft chins.

maybe it's just that white people easily look similar.
Also they are both really awesome.

They ARE both really awesome.

[Brad]

Yes I am.

Regarding conservative vs republican: in Canada the former is difficult to define given its history. Once upon a time back in yesteryear, there was a conservative party in Canada, a liberal party and the new democrats, and it was good.

Essentially on a federal scale it was a two party system, as the NDP (who were pro-union/pro-workers rights and not terribly on board with the whole 'running a large economy' part of politics) weren't getting anybody's vote. Conservatives were fiscal conservatives primarily, and Liberals were not especially different in their viewpoints on freedoms and social change (ie: that they should take a few hundred years to think on them and get back to you).

Then along came the Reform Party out of Alberta. They weren't taken very seriously for quite a few years because they sought to represent the underrepresented west and they chose to do this by taking on bigoted, racist inbred hicks and trying to make them members of parliament. The trouble they got into over the years was hilarious. One memorable fellow, and I'm paraphrasing from quite a while ago, had said that if black people and the disabled should be allowed to work at all, it should be in back rooms where no one would have to see them. He didn't use the term "black people" as I recall. Then leader of the party Preston Manning said of homosexuality, "homosexuality is destructive to the individual, and in the long run, society" and one of his campaign fundraisers said on record of him, "You’re a fine white person. You know, we are letting in too many people from the Third World, the low blacks, the low Hispanics. They’re going to take over the province.”

They then changed their name to the Canadian Alliance party and their leader Stockwell Day made that year's election, for the first time in my memory, focused strongly on the candidate's religious views. He made a number of antisemitic comments during his career and created the "aces acadamy" curriculum at a private school he was involved with that taught that dinosaurs and humans had coexisted 6000 years ago when the earth was created.

The Canadian Alliance then joined with the Conservative party of Canada to become a new conservative party of which it kept only the name of the original party. It is now run by Steven Harper. Under his leadership, his band of members of parliament have been quoted saying such things as that the Jews are in a conspiracy to take over the government. As a result, at rallies, Harper has in the last election banned some of his potential MPs from speaking to the media.

See? That's why "conservative" is a weird word up here. It should mean fiscally responsible and adhering to the status quo. For the last few years it has been tainted with bad examples of people representing the party though.

[MindStrider]

Wow Brad, you just made our Conservative party look absolutely normal What's "hug-a-hoodie" before that little lot?
Your conservatives sound worryingly like our BNP, however. The National Party want everyone of non-British ancestry (which is a very loosely defined term, even to them) out of the country. They want no part of the EU, they want national service and everyone who refuses it to be struck from voting records. They want to make it every citizen's "duty" to carry and maintain a freaking assault rifle. To make things worse, somehow they got elected to seats in the European Parliament. How does that makes us look?!
Rant over. At least we can still have fairly moderate definitions of 'liberal' and 'conservative!

[Master Gunner]

Strictly speaking, the old conservative party was the "Progressive Conservative Party of Canada" (being formed out of the Tory and Reform parties in pursuit of Confederation, and known as the Liberal-Conservative party until 1873). The "Progressive" part of the title was notably dropped after they merged with the (so-called) Alliance, although it still operates at the provincial level, at least out here in the Maritimes.

[Tim]

And that, my friends, was your course in Political Bias 101.

(No offense, Brad, but that wasn't exactly a balanced overview.)

[Master Gunner]

Little in politics ever is. Point is, the Conservative Party in Canada can mean several wildly different things.

[TomBrend]

We're all nuts. Let's have some cake.

[Septavius]

Cake: the most delicious of all objective truths.

[TomBrend]

CAAAAAKE because CAAAAAAAAAAKE.

[Metcarfre]

I still prefer calling them Tories and Grits.
And Hippies.


And Frogs.

[Zivlok]

I assume they used Young Republicans because the term Republican is a more universal way of describing a right-wing platform...just about anyone who would watch this video would know the group they're talking about, whereas "conservative" is a more ambiguous term.

I'd say quite the opposite, in fact.

As would I. Conservatism and liberalism have been defined since that one dude wrote that one book I read about in AP Western European History 4 years ago. Wealth of Nations? Might have been that.

But yeah, "republican" and "democrat" are much more flexible. Republican could mean a member of the US political party, or one who wants their country to become a republican as opposed to their current system, and the same could go for democrat. Maybe originally dems wanted more of a true democracy, and repubs wanted more emphasis on a small group of people representing a larger group of people, but now it's boiled down to left v. right, basically.

[Master Gunner]

And which was left and right on economic and social issues has switched before.

[Zivlok]

Oh yeah, it used to be South = dems, north = repubs. Then there was that whole switch in the time period. You know, the one with the numbers.

[Brad]

And that, my friends, was your course in Political Bias 101.

(No offense, Brad, but that wasn't exactly a balanced overview.)

Is it not? I just repeated things the conservative party mps and candidates ACTUALLY SAID. I said I was paraphrasing two of them (the latter was reported front page of the province when I was living on Holdom in Burnaby.... so between 2004 and 2007), but the other two, you may have noticed, were in quotation marks. Put them in quotation marks in google and you will find the folks who said them.

Stockwell Day DOES believe dinosaurs coexisted with humans 6000 years ago. He WROTE A SCHOOL CURRICULUM on it. Incidentally, he is now our minister of international trade. How is that politically biased to point it out? Warren Kinsela wasn't called that when he pulled out a Barney doll on television and pointed out that it was the only dinosaur to coexist with humans during that election.

Are these people representative of the party? Well, technically the are. They're party representatives. Are their opinions representative of the ideals of the party? Certainly not the ones they post on their website, but of the caucus, I believe they are. Some, like Harper, are (and this hurts me to say) smart enough to know when to keep their mouths shut. I mean it: wiki the major players in the conservatives today and find me one that hasn't been criticized for antisemetic, anti-homosexual, racist, sexist or (please excuse the term) 'crazy religious' (on the order of Stockwell Day or that other religions don't have a place in Canada) comments.

It is a continuing problem that the party has dealt with constantly in the past and, as evidenced by Harper refusing to allow some of his candidates contact with the media or to participate in pre-election townhall meetings where they might let something slip, continues.

Now Tim, I don't blame you if you find the facts I've pointed out here shocking - these are the leaders of our country that I am talking about. But remember Harper's first term. He made it a campaign promise. A campaign promise for crying out loud: that he would repeal the laws that allowed for gay marriage in Canada. A politician who is supposed to support the freedoms of the people he is called to represent was elected with the promise that he would take away the rights of some Canadians and return them to a place of second class citizenry. Now that's a hot topic and I know people love to debate the morality of gay marriage, but ignore the context for a minute and remember that what he promised to do, and thank God he couldn't: was erase people's rights. This is the man in charge of these people: talk about a bias.

It should be said that there are a lot of people in the conservative party and certainly a lot of conservative supporters who don't believe that the Jews are trying to take over the country, or that homosexuality is destructive to society, or that we need to stop letting minorities immigrate here, or that it is the place of government to regulate people's religious beliefs. Any group of people has good and bad people in it. But of many of the party's leaders, look for yourself: if it looks like a duck, and talks like a duck, it's a duck. Or at very least a racist loon.

[MindStrider]

If it looks like a duck, and talks like a duck, it's a duck. Or at very least a racist loon.

Hope you don't mind Brad, but that is going right in my sig.
Oh, and if all the stuff you just said is true, and I can easily believe that it would be, it simply serves to further my paranoia about far-right politics. Right-wing politics in general just scares me, after a while!

[Tim]

Brad, I don't want to get into a big debate or anything, but I'm sure you realize that being biased has nothing to do with whether you're telling the truth or not.

What I mean by suggesting that your description of the party was biased is that the only information you provided was oriented towards criticism and that the language you used to convey the information leaned towards negativity. (In other words, you were using some mild rhetoric and applying what they call "spin" to your information.)


So again, I'm not denying that any of the quotes or paraphrases you presented are inaccurate. But if the only examples you provide about the party are the negative things some of its members have said and done, then you're being biased in your presentation of them. That's fair; you're entitled to that. But if you look like an anti-conservative and talk like an anti-conservative, then I'm going to call you an anti-conservative. Deal?

Also...

Now Tim, I don't blame you if you find the facts I've pointed out here shocking.

I appreciate the sentiment, but really, there's no need for you to condescend to poor little ignorant me. : )

[Kara]

Brad, I don't want to get into a big debate or anything, but I'm sure you realize that being biased has nothing to do with whether you're telling the truth or not.

What I mean by suggesting that your description of the party was biased is that the only information you provided was oriented towards criticism and that the language you used to convey the information leaned towards negativity. (In other words, you were using some mild rhetoric and applying what they call "spin" to your information.)

I was going to post in response to Brad's post and it being biased, but Tim has pretty much said everything I wanted to. So yeah, this.

That being said on my end I'm far from a conservative. I'm more just stating the bias that was quite visible in your post Brad. It's not as if you were also mentioning any positive point of the Conservative Party and you certainly weren't stating plain fact without suggesting your own ideals.

I agree with you on every front about the Conservative Party, but I think Tim is right in this instance. That's all.


On a completely different note, I really really enjoyed this video. Keep 'em coming Jeremy. Hopefully the writing frenzy you seem to have been going through will keep going for awhile more and you'll keep producing great scripts. I was really impressed with Tim in particular acting-wise and the camera work was pretty wonderful.

[Brad]

If believing that all Canadians should have equal rights granted by the government irrespective of race, creed, religion, sexual preference or physical ability and that those in power should make it their top priority to ensure this makes me anti-conservative, sure, I'll own that.

Incidentally, it doesn't make me a pro-Liberal either.

I didn't mean to condescend to you: I realize that you're a patriot and that I am being very critical of the Canadian government. I get as hot under the collar with debates as anyone and I often do come off a bit ... pretentious I suppose? Yeah, I'll own that one too.

Anyway I am truly sorry for coming off that way, rereading, I do owe you an apology for that. And you are right, bias is separate from truth - and in that I am biased against the conservatives because I don't believe they have the best for Canadians in their minds.

Not that I can say differently about the other parties either, frankly if you went on record with a policy of releasing small pox at schools, you might well get some votes representing any of the parties depending how you spun it. Even the Green vote if you pointed out what litterers kids can be.

[Tim]

*shakes hands with Brad*

You, sir, are a scholar and a gentleman.




As for the smallpox thing, have you ever read I Robot? Or any of the many other similarly cynical moral fables? Humanity is a virus that must be wiped out before it cannibalizes itself and destroys everything else along with it! And I'm just the man to do that! With robots!