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It's harder than you think, to include Female Characters

Oh WHAT? They swore on the beta test forums that Goatsmith would be a playable class, but now they're making it NPC only? Pre-order cancelled!

Great video though, the interview segments sounded almost exactly like the actual excuses companies make on the same subject, which is funny but also slightly troubling.

I feel like there's some subtle message in this video, but I can't quite ... oh wait I got it.

END FISH RACISM! #YesAllSalmon

That's actually perfect timing, considering the Women Are Too Hard To Animate game jam just ended.

Love the video, had many funnies in it!

Thanks for this image im gonna use it everywhere i possibly can from now on

Love the video, just sad that people keep harping on this. There is a vast difference between a game where you play a static character, like Halo, and a game where you play a dynamic character, like Skyrim.

Relativiox wrote:Love the video, just sad that people keep harping on this. There is a vast difference between a game where you play a static character, like Halo, and a game where you play a dynamic character, like Skyrim.

Really, we just wanted to take those specific excuses to task.

Did you know games with women player characters, a varied selection of player characters including women and customizable player characters including women put together make up 2% of all games with gender specific player characters? The other 98% make up the world's biggest sausage party.

Scathing social commentary in this video. And pretty funny too!

Even in games where you do play a static character, you can still provide a choice. Star Trek: Elite Force let you choose between a female and male character - exact same character, just different model and voice actor. For Halo, they wouldn't have even needed a different model (and it's not like he has a lot of dialog either).

Relativiox wrote:Love the video, just sad that people keep harping on this. There is a vast difference between a game where you play a static character, like Halo, and a game where you play a dynamic character, like Skyrim.

Yeah, I thought the same, but putting that point aside, I did really enjoy the committee discussion.

Master Gunner wrote:Even in games where you do play a static character, you can still provide a choice. Star Trek: Elite Force let you choose between a female and male character - exact same character, just different model and voice actor. For Halo, they wouldn't have even needed a different model (and it's not like he has a lot of dialog either).

I think this is more on a case to case basis. Smaller companies that are trying to make a polished game, that work might be too much money/work for them. Character model is one thing, but any game that has equipable armor/clothing requires male and female versions of each.

This video is great. Special mention: I loved Cam's delivery of "If we're going to put 'wo-man' in this game by god let's do it right!"

Also: Thank you for having this be under the Sir Frags-A-Lot brand.

mariomario42 wrote:

Relativiox wrote:Love the video, just sad that people keep harping on this. There is a vast difference between a game where you play a static character, like Halo, and a game where you play a dynamic character, like Skyrim.

Yeah, I thought the same, but putting that point aside, I did really enjoy the committee discussion.

We intentionally didn't mention a game specifically. You don't even know what kind of game they're making.

It actually sounds more like Skyrim than anything else, which makes the complaint even more valid.

I have a few questions, do the Hard shelled ones molt?

Why Can't I play a raccon?

Are the Bass small or large mouth?

if I throw a npc into the river and it can't swim do I have to jump in to collect it's stuff?

Graham wrote:We intentionally didn't mention a game specifically. You don't even know what kind of game they're making.

It actually sounds more like Skyrim than anything else, which makes the complaint even more valid.

Of course, but my brain went to the real life recent issue before I understood the details of the video.

Also Barkeep is my favorite class.

Graham wrote:

mariomario42 wrote:

Relativiox wrote:Love the video, just sad that people keep harping on this. There is a vast difference between a game where you play a static character, like Halo, and a game where you play a dynamic character, like Skyrim.

Yeah, I thought the same, but putting that point aside, I did really enjoy the committee discussion.

We intentionally didn't mention a game specifically. You don't even know what kind of game they're making.

It actually sounds more like Skyrim than anything else, which makes the complaint even more valid.

Oh yeah, in a game like Skyrim (or similar) there is absolutely zero reason why there wouldn't be a choice to be female.

Master Gunner wrote:Even in games where you do play a static character, you can still provide a choice. Star Trek: Elite Force let you choose between a female and male character - exact same character, just different model and voice actor. For Halo, they wouldn't have even needed a different model (and it's not like he has a lot of dialog either).

I'm more talking about a game where your character is set and there is not much (if any) customization like Tomb Raider or Uncharted, though I see your point. In those scenarios with characters that are set it absolutely does double if not triple the work that needs to be done. I know that when I worked on Fable 2 we had to do multiple test passes with the male character, and then we needed to do all those same test passes again for the female model.

Just want to finish with my opinion that more games should have both options, though I understand why more don't.

Well this one hits entirely too close to home.

The sad thing is, I've seen MANY games which advertise features like "the environments/fish/trees do THIS like they would in real life!", and it kinda does point towards overwhelmingly skewed priorities.

I don't actually care what the fish do...

Sacrificing a little bit of comedy to make a good point about the sorry state of game design these days? I can dig it.

This video feels like what we lost when ENN died. Awesome work guys.

nicholasmc1 wrote:This video feels like what we lost when ENN died. Awesome work guys.

Yeah! I knew it seemed familiar but didn't know exactly how to express it.

Well, that is how it started, so that's not too surprising.

I loved this one, Graham really captured the PR guy who has no idea what's going on and is scrambling for excuses. Cam is excellent as always, and the whole dev team played really well. Definitely looking forward to this one going live so I can spread it far and wide.

Great video; it’s nice to see people addressing the continuous exclusion of women by the Video-Games Industry.

The game dev scenes were pure gold. Love it

Relativiox wrote:

Master Gunner wrote:Even in games where you do play a static character, you can still provide a choice. Star Trek: Elite Force let you choose between a female and male character - exact same character, just different model and voice actor. For Halo, they wouldn't have even needed a different model (and it's not like he has a lot of dialog either).

I'm more talking about a game where your character is set and there is not much (if any) customization like Tomb Raider or Uncharted, though I see your point. In those scenarios with characters that are set it absolutely does double if not triple the work that needs to be done. I know that when I worked on Fable 2 we had to do multiple test passes with the male character, and then we needed to do all those same test passes again for the female model.

It is substantially more work, but when you're talking about games with budgets of millions of dollars (especially in games with minimal customization), that's a small fraction of the total effort put into making the game. In Elite Force, the only customization you have is playing as a Male or a Female character, and it was made on a fraction of Halo or Call of Duty (I haven't played any CoD game in a long time - do you play as a woman in any of the modern-era ones?).

How many games are there where you can ONLY play a female character?

Off the top of my head I can only think of Tomb Raider, Metroid, Portal and some indies.
Compared to the 1000s of games that are male only.

Oh, there's Super Princess Peach too

SamSamSam wrote:How many games are there where you can ONLY play a female character?

Off the top of my head I can only think of Tomb Raider, Metroid, Portal and some indies.
Compared to the 1000s of games that are male only.

Oh, there's Super Princess Peach too

The first one I thought of was Mirror's Edge. (Just adding to the tiny tiny list.)
ETA: Remember Me.