"Nerd flu" from PAX may be more serious

[Cybren]

wutttt?

Uninsured people have to go to free clinics, hospitals, etc, and they tend to go only when they are very, VERY sick. So even if they aren't insured, your insurance premiums go up anyway.

[Metcarfre]

And people fear public health care... tsk tsk.

No, it's the whole "being forced to pay for something you might not use and people who don't have jobs or contribute to will most definitely use" that's a stupid thing. If people wanted health care bad enough, they'd get it.

Everyone uses health care.

Every. Single. Human. Being. That argument is so specious, it's not even an argument.

Were you born? Yes. Health care.

Will you die? Yes. Health care.

Will you get sick in the middle? Almost assuredly, yes. Health care.

And what gives you this stupid impression that unemployed people use health care more than gainfully employed persons? That's just... I don't know, but it's exasperating that you think it.

It's so frustrating to me that Americans spend nearly twice as much as Canadians on health care, yet; a) not everyone gets it, and b) it's not as good.

If that doesn't boggle your mind, then I don't know what will.

[tak197]

I'll ask this: who on the forums in the US cared enough to watch the Address Obama gave to Congress tonight?

I didn't, because I was too busy watching Glee and America's Next Top Model. Apparently when they said they want the girls to follw in the footsteps of Kate Moss, they didn't mean Crack-hos.

[TimeCruiserMike]

i was too busy being sick

[Bob The Magic Camel]

And people fear public health care... tsk tsk.

No, it's the whole "being forced to pay for something you might not use and people who don't have jobs or contribute to will most definitely use" that's a stupid thing. If people wanted health care bad enough, they'd get it.

I can only hope that if your government finally gets its act together, joins the rest of the civilised world and gets public health care; that you will get your full money's worth.

[Trisha Lynn]

But enough politics, I suggest a pool on who of the crew gets SIDS first.

...

Did you just make a dead baby joke?


Trisha Lynn
...if so, can we go back to politics...?

[Machalllewis]

i was too busy being sick

Thats really funny.

[Arius]

No, I don't do dead baby jokes. I was making a joke about people being wildly unaware of the nature of medical issues, as well as displaying the apathy one may feel towards someone until it becomes entertainment, regardless of the source, to the point of betting money on their lives.

My East-West Humanities class is doing Buddhist suffering and we had to compare it to John Donne's Meditation 17 as well as our own religious views. Since I have no religion, I went with television.

Plus, dead babies LOLZERS!!!1ONE!

[Cake]

And people fear public health care... tsk tsk.

No, it's the whole "being forced to pay for something you might not use and people who don't have jobs or contribute to will most definitely use" that's a stupid thing. If people wanted health care bad enough, they'd get it.

Everyone uses health care.

Every. Single. Human. Being. That argument is so specious, it's not even an argument.

Were you born? Yes. Health care.

Will you die? Yes. Health care.

Will you get sick in the middle? Almost assuredly, yes. Health care.

And what gives you this stupid impression that unemployed people use health care more than gainfully employed persons? That's just... I don't know, but it's exasperating that you think it.

It's so frustrating to me that Americans spend nearly twice as much as Canadians on health care, yet; a) not everyone gets it, and b) it's not as good.

If that doesn't boggle your mind, then I don't know what will.

The unemployed person was more so on my mind because he's the guy not adding to the pool. As far as contributions to the pool, I haven't been to the doctor in years, even when I was sick. I do have insurance. That was my choice not to spend the money to do so. I shouldn't be forced to pay for you to go to the doctor though.

[Arius]

The unemployed person was more so on my mind because he's the guy not adding to the pool. As far as contributions to the pool, I haven't been to the doctor in years, even when I was sick. I do have insurance. That was my choice not to spend the money to do so. I shouldn't be forced to pay for you to go to the doctor though.

You do realize that they're not going to walk up to your house, drag you out to the hospital, and make you pay for someone's doctor visit, right?

It'll be more like five bucks a month to help ensure that other human beings may stay alive.

[Cake]

If people wanted health care, they'd get it. Seriously, why are you guys so set on the government taking away your choices and your money?

[InsaneFool]

but but but but but... what about the Death panels!?!!?

Sorry, had to.

I love our health care system, even for all its flaws. Access to health care really is a basic human right, and should be enjoyed by all, irregardless of income or social status.

*EDIT*

Seriously, why are you guys so set on the government taking away your choices and your money?

Because for a lot of people the "choice" as you call it is between having a roof over your head or eating this month, versus having the protection just in case you some how wind up with cancer isn't much of a choice at all. And that doesn't even factor in the chance that your insurance company might not honor your policy because [insert bullshit bureaucratic reason here].

A government that doesn't look after its people is no government at all...I'm not saying that everyone should aspire to have a nanny state managing every aspect of every person's life, it should just try its damnedest to make sure they don't fucking die.

[Arius]

If people wanted health care, they'd get it. Seriously, why are you guys so set on the government taking away your choices and your money?

What choices are being taken away?

What doctor you get? No, you still get your own doctor.
What treatment you get? No, you still get the treatment you need.

Even if you did have limited choices, what would the big deal be?

Do you choose what fire department saves you from your burning apartment?
Do you choose what cop arrests your mugger?
Do you choose the EMT that gives you CPR when you choke on a pretzel?
Do you choose which soldiers go off and fight?
Do you even choose who takes your appendix out?

So, what does it matter who makes you turn left and cough? Someone is still cupping your balls.

[Cake]

If people wanted health care, they'd get it. Seriously, why are you guys so set on the government taking away your choices and your money?

What choices are being taken away?

Whether to spend my money on the doctor or not. I don't want to have to spend money on the doctor if I choose not to go.

[InsaneFool]

So you're saying you don't have any health insurance?

[Arius]

I choose not to get in accidents, still pay car insurance.
I choose not to lose my phone, still pay phone insurance.
I choose not to get robbed, still pay for fraud protection.

[Cake]

So you're saying you don't have any health insurance?

I do have health insurance. But it does cost additional money to visit the doctor. It was my choice to pay for health insurance though. No one made me do it.

Arius. I choose not to lose my phone also. I don't pay insurance for it though. I only have car insurance because it's the law and I don't have a choice as a law abiding citizen. I don't pay for fire insurance. See? It's nice to have a choice. You wanted those types of protection, so you got them. The same applies for health insurance. If you want it, you can get it. Just a matter of getting your priorities in order.

[2stepz]

I only have one thing to add to this whole debate.

It is my belief that if one is going to take advantage of government run programs, from Unemployment to Welfare, to this proposed health plan... one should be subject to drug screenings, on a random basis, and at a minimum of annually.

It doesn't bother me to pay a little more tax to help out someone who is down on their luck. People get laid off, houses get foreclosed... it happens. It DOES bother me to put money in the pocket of a tweeker who's going to use it to further their habit.

[teeb]

So you're saying you don't have any health insurance?

I do have health insurance. But it does cost additional money to visit the doctor. It was my choice to pay for health insurance though. No one made me do it.

As soon as you introduce the concept of paying to see a doctor, you're reducing the chances that you will actually go and see said doctor.

To take a recent example, think of all the people in the US who may or may not have PAXflu who might not go to the doctor because it'd cost them a couple hundred dollars.

And in more worrying examples, people with chest pains putting off calling an ambulance or going to the doctor because they can't afford to. When they might be having a heart attack.

[Metcarfre]

So you're saying you don't have any health insurance?

I do have health insurance. But it does cost additional money to visit the doctor. It was my choice to pay for health insurance though. No one made me do it.

OK, I think I see what you're saying. But since having a single-payer system reduces costs, doesn't it wind up amounting to the same thing? I mean, the reality is that at some point you will need medical attention. Over the course of your life, it would wind up being cheaper if you payed into a single-payer system (via taxes) than your current insurance system.

Also, Cake, love the new sig.

[Mad Madam Mimm]

As ein Englisher who has to deal with the NHS, may I throw in my 2 brass pennies?

The problem with operating under a nationalised health service is that, to put it simply, you get what you pay for. Doctors in Private service are better paid, and therefore can afford better equipment and have better access to staff and medicines.

However, the only issue that really arises from the NHS is the same issue that arises from benefits schemes; people abuse the system to get as much as they can for free, meaning someone genuinely in need has to go without. Having lived with it all my life, I can't really compare it to anything, but I'll say this. The system works. It's the jerkwads trying to beat it that cause the problems. I sahn't bore you all with Britain's NHS issues, but if we took care of the doctors and others who actually provide service to the country instead of lining the government's pockets, we would probably be an awesome country. Proud to be British, proud to use the NHS

[Metcarfre]

It should also be noted that, for example, Britain and Canada have completely different health care systems. Britain has the NHS, which means that the government is the insurer and provider of health care, whereas Canada has a single-payer system, wherein the government provides insurance but medical operations are privately run.

There's an excellent blog post about it here.

[Annchan]

This is a silly argument to me, there are a million things that people pay for that other people use. Schools, roads, public construction, police, lawyers, welfare, litter pickup, animal control, ambulances, fire department, government office furniture, and many other government programs paid for with taxes before we even consider health care. If you don't want to pay for someone else (as well as yourself) through your taxes then think about the alternative of living somewhere that does not have these luxuries and weigh the differences for yourself. Maybe then you will either find it is worth it or move somewhere you are happier.

[luinie]

Annchan has a very valid point.

[steelfox]

I was gonna mention that point as well Annchan.

All the services that we pay into that we don't use all the time. I've never called a firetruck or needed help from the police but I still gladly pay into the fund because if shit goes down I know I can receive help.