The Big Relationship Thread

[Matt]

I'm really enjoying the discussion so far.

Lone bard, I just want to point out that the people don't have to like the same things you do, certainly not. I like sharing things with people I love, so I enjoy it when someone either likes something I do, or is willing to give it a try so I can share it with him.
But I also like having separated interests. That doesn't mean they won't be showcased.

Matt, I see where you're coming from, and it makes sense, but I don't think I'd feel the same way. I think I'd want to know right away if someone is going to make these kind of assumptions about me because I like a kid's show, so that I can make sure not to date them. Really, to me these things are more like screening, anyone who is put off by what's make me me isn't someone I would want to associate with on that level anyways.

I guess I just see these things as quirks, and quirks are cool. Theyre what make people individuals and unique and people you start being interested in. But I suppose there is a difference between not hiding it and advertising it, too.

People make snap judgements and assumptions based on their preconceptions. I do, you do, the girl in accounting does.

Fact of life. This doesn't make them shallow, or a bad person. It makes them human beings.

This is why they say it's important to make a good first impression.

If you simply write off every person who would make a negative assumption about you, you're writing off a huge portion of the possible dating pool - and a great many of those would have been a great fit if introduced to you in the right way.

You don't have to bring up your authentic shrunken head collection on the first date, and any person who might be put off by your collection in the short term, could actually be someone who'd really like you once they figured it out.

-m

[Lyinginbedmon]

So there's a girl in accounting, Matt?

You dog

[Matt]

Not in accounting, no.

-m

[Master Gunner]

Is she another barista?

[Matt]

When I am single, I am routinely interested in a few ladies simultaneously. At least one is virtually always a barrista.

-m

[Digital Dolphin]

When I am single, I am routinely interested in a few ladies simultaneously. At least one is virtually always a barrista.

-m

I hate to break this to you Matt, but I think you may in fact be Male. All the above symptoms point to it.

[Matt]

I'd suspected as much for a while now.

-m

[Lyinginbedmon]

Maybe it's because of your penis.

[Ahlir]

I find it pretty hard to to be friends with someone and not feel attracted to them at one point or another. And most of the time I'll make a move. If it gets turned down, then we're still friends. I guess maybe I just more open about things then some other people.

As for changing yourself for someone; I don't do it. I went through a pretty hard time in school with bullying and trying to change myself. And I got to the point where I realised I'll never be happy trying to be something I'm not. Which seems pretty obvious but there are still people out there who haven't caught on. So I will always be me and if there are people who can't handle that... Then I don't really want them around me in general, let alone date them.

Also Avi, the way one of your Gifs has been linking makes it look like Bill is actually kissing Paul's arm... It's distracting. Hehe

[Aeralis]

I spent my entire childhood trying to convince myself I was somebody I was not, and I wasn't a very happy camper. But I eventually grew up, moved out into the world, and began embracing who I was, and really, learning who that person was.

No way in hell am I gonna cover up parts of that just to impress someone! I've already done that for too long, thank you!

But to describe it in a more down-to-earth way...
I'm typically a bit reserved around new people, as I learn who they are and how we would work together. But I never try to hide or downplay parts of who I am. I may not go full-on geek mode at first, but what you see is what you get, and if you don't like it, then I guess we just saved each other some time?

I agree that, in some cases, slowly easing into some things is best. Taking somebody home is a very telling experience, and it's good to keep in mind that, no matter how compatible you are, only some very specific people will be as enamored at your wall to wall coverings of Sailor Moon posters. I myself have mostly blanketed my room with gaming posters, assorted nerdy knick-knacks and trinkets, and silly hats, and while I would love for my special someone to see that and think it is awesome, I also know its a good idea to build up some kind of connection and understanding before that happens. Mr. Right may not be all that into gaming, which is ok, but I'd like that to be talked about before he sees my ROB sitting below a couple Zelda posters and makes a snap judgement that I'm just a big nerdy manchild.

[Alja-Markir]

Regarding first impressions, and the management thereof, I'm reminded of an old friend (whom, sadly, I haven't seen in some time).

Our first meeting she comes up to me out of the blue, a complete stranger in a room full of strangers, and nosily and aggresively accuses me of humming out of tune (how she heard me is a mystery, the room was very loud and I was rather quiet). It annoys me, I make some sarcastic snip in response, she then taunts me in turn. I bristle and stalk off.

At that point, horrible first impression - some random nosy bitch who I will do my best to avoid in the future. But while smoothing my ruffled feathers, I reflect on her. I wonder why she might act that way, and it occurs to me that yeah, she might just be incredibly nosy and self entitled... but maybe she just was trying to break the ice in an aggresive way, find a way to talk to me.

So I stopped and went back to inquire as to why she singled out me and my humming. I don't recall how she answered, but within a minute or two we were getting along famously because it became immediately apparant that she was merely teasing me without ill-intent of any sort. In fact, she was really a downright warm and generous lady - she just happened to have a bit of a brawny personality and expressed herself in boisterous ways.

So what does this have to do with first impressions? Well, the way I see it is that there are two real approaches to handling first impressions.

1) Consciously try to project an image of yourself to the world that portrays a certain version or aspect of yourself that will be generally acceptable and give a good first impression.

2) When you first meet someone, remind yourself to withhold judgement. You will inevitably walk away with some sort of first impression, but stop and think about that impression. A huge number of first impressions are just downright wrong, and even when they get things partly right, it's so superficial and colored by your biases and mood that it's really kind of worthless to gauge anything off of.

The first option just seems problematic to me. It's embracing superficiality and snap judgements, it's inherently deceptive and manipulative in nature, it drives people to fret over how others feel about their appearance and behavior, and - worst of all - it's ultimately senseless because despite all your efforts people will still end up getting the wrong impressions of you on a regular basis.

On the other hand, driving yourself to look past first impressions and snap judgements simply seems wiser. It encourages patience and the pursuit of truth, it encourages analytic thinking and self-awareness, it encourages forgiveness and empathy, it's ultimately dealing directly with the only thing in the world you ever actually have any real control over - yourself.

If everyone picked the latter over the former, I think the world would be a much nicer place, don't you?

~Alja~

[Fezzul]

I would agree, let the crazy out slowly.

If they can deal with it, they can deal with it, but do them the favour of introducing them to your obsessions a little at a time. For instance, "I am a doctor who fan," is a lot less intimidating than "I own 4 remote control daleks and 200 or so Doctor Who DVDs, and I watch them all regularly, with the commentary tracks".

Don't hide your self away, but don't shoot yourself in the foot by smothering the other person right off the bat.

And, perhaps most importantly, have equal patience for their obsessions. Don't think your the only one with a passion for the weird.

[Alja-Markir]

Middle ground, I think, is what we need here.

1) Don't wear your weirdness on your sleeve, unless you're just that damn proud of it and aren't concerned about what others think.

2) Forgive others their weirdness, as we are weird ourselves.

~Alja~

[Elomin Sha]

I fail on both counts:

1) I am Elomin

2) You lot are the weird ones, I am perfectably normal. Did I mention perfect too?

[SilPho]

Alja, it's interesting to read about the first impressions you got from that girl. I was practically scammed by a girl once after she effectively stole part of my lunch, she did eventually return it, then a few months later we started the best relationship I've had to date.

First impressions only really matter so far as to decide whether you want to take the time to get a second, third, fourth impression etc.

[Matt]

If everyone picked the latter over the former, I think the world would be a much nicer place, don't you?

Sure, but you don't control how others react to you. You can, however, exert some control over how they percieve you.

Again, I've already said, I'm not advocating making huge changes to the person you are you please someone else. I'm talking about controling how you present yourself in such a way as to avoid closing off potential avenues for relationships.

first impressions may "only really matter so far as to decide whether you want to take the time to get a second, third, fourth impression etc." but the point is, that by considring the impression you're making you can affect that outcome in your favour.

-m

[Alja-Markir]

Matt, you seem to have missed the "if everyone did it" part.

If everyone stopped to consider first impressions, there'd be no need to try to exert control over how others perceive you.

At the same time, if everyone were to try to exert control over how others perceive them, there'd be a lot more suspicion of other people in the world - after all, if everyone is actively trying to look good, only a great fool wouldn't suspect each and everyone one of them of duplicity. It would become understood that people are out to make themselves look good, probably because beneath that surface veneer is some strange, embarassing, or outrageous facet about themselves that they don't like and want to hide.

It ultimately boils down to A) do we want to live in a world in which being weird in various ways is thought of as something everyone does and is accepted amicably, without need for forgiveness as a fault?

Or do we B) want to live in a world in which we are expected to cover up our weirdness because the conventional wisdom and cultural practice is to judge others harshly and hypocritically, to be closed minded and self centered, and to suspect others around us trying to hide their flaws, not only because they are expected to, but ultimately because having flaws to begin with is considered unacceptable?

I admit, it's a bit of a strong, idealized choice I'm presenting here. But the underlying sentiments of each are still there without the idealization.

If you are someone who tries to understand others and tries not to be bothered by weirdness, you'll probably be happier for it. If you are someone who is concerned with "damage control", with "how to make friends and influence people", with managing who you are so as not to suprise or confuse or offend the world around you, you'll probably end up neurotic, overly self conscious, and generally discontented.

Just my... (tallies)... two dollars and thiry nice cents.

~Alja~

[theDreamer]

Or, you know, be a normal, functioning person.

[Matt]

No, I didn't miss it. I wrote it off as unrealistic. I'm getting progeressively more convinced that people in this thread are missing what I'm saying, in fact.

Everyone out theredoesn't take inventory of their snap judgements and prejudices. This is a fact of reality. It is practically unchangable, except, perhaps, on an evolutionary time-scale.

The best one individual can do is take inventory of their own biases, and try to do others the courtesy of suspending them, but they need also be mindful of the fact that not every person you meet will do the same. The purpose of this is to be able to better share the person you are with people in such a way that gets you past those preconceptions and judgements.

This is not about hiding yourself, it's about presenting yourself.

-m

[Drdiggit42]

I agree with Matt here. The world would be a very different place without judgmental people. Like scary different. Like weird Utopian society you read about in science fiction novels.

Edit: I do want to point out that I may have misunderstood Matt and that because I agree with Matt doesn't mean he agrees with what i said.

[Alja-Markir]

See, it's that sort of thinking I have trouble understanding.

Unchangeable except on an evolutionary time-scale? That sounds like nonsense to me. We're not talking intrinsic human qualities rooted in biology here - we're talking about culture. And if history has shown me anything, it is that culture can change far more rapidly than anyone gives it credit for.

I admit, our cultural tendency to make snap judgements based on first impressions does stem from evolution-instilled instincts. But then again so does the asian cultural practice of bowing - exposing one's neck and averting one's eyes as a sign of trust. Neither is intrinsic to humanity, nor unchangeable.

I admit, you're absolutely right Matt - snap judgements and first impressions are a way of life. But then again so was homophobia, for a very long time. So was apartheid, so was limited suffrage, so was dictatorial rule, et cetera, et cetera. Just because something is the predominant way of life at the moment doesn't mean it should be, or that it has to be.

If your primary concern is with making your way in the world as you find it, that's fine. I'm not gonna tell you not to play along with the system and present yourself in a certain way. Jump through the hoops and you get rewarded, right? Nothing intrinsically wrong about that, really.

Meanwhile, some folks hate jumping through hoops. Or perhaps they don't consider the reward of any value to themselves. Yet they're still expected to do it, and are even socially 'punished' if they don't.

You're comfortable with the system and your place in it? That's fine, enjoy it. If it doesn't seem limiting to you, if you don't feel pressured to hide certain aspects of your life but rather to merely present other aspects of yourself, hey, more power to ya.

But do please realize the system tramples on others. Do please realize that is it a flawed system, and that it causes others to suffer even if you do not. And while it may not be possible to change things overnight, nor for change to be brought about by merely a single person, or ten, or a hundred, or a thousand, that's no reason not to desire change for the better and to support those who would actively seek it.

Again, I know I'm being idealist. At the same time, you're being pragmatic. Neither is wrong, really, and they certainly aren't mutually incompatible.

Tell ya what. I'll concede that your pragmatic approach is entirely reasonable for the world as we find it if you concede that, yes, ideally it would be a nicer world if people didn't put any value at all into first impressions.

*grin*

~Alja~

[Matt]

Tell ya what. I'll concede that your pragmatic approach is entirely reasonable for the world as we find it if you concede that, yes, ideally it would be a nicer world if people didn't put any value at all into first impressions.

I ALREADY DID THAT.

-m

[Alja-Markir]

Then I apologize for not grasping that sooner.

*tips hat*

~Alja~

[Matt]

ALSO:

No one, except maybe the omniscient demi-gods walking among us are able to know the full details of a person they meet when they first meet them.

When you introduce yourself to a person, you do not also hand them a report detailing your full personality profile, interests, academic history, banking records, credit history, and career aptitudes.

A person meeting you for the first time sees a tiny sliver of the person you are. This is why dating exists.

I don't see what, exactly, is so contentious about propsing the exercise of awareness with regards to what elements of yourself you choose to highlight in that tiny sliver, in order to maximize your potential to develop relationships with others. You have to gradually introduce yourself anyway, you might as well be aware of it.

Like seriously. Since when is the message "being aware of and adapting how you present yourself based on situational context and the people you meet is a great way to facilitate making friends and developing relationships that might not otherwise open themselves to you" even the least bit objectionable?

-m

[Drdiggit42]

When you introduce yourself to a person, you do not also hand them a report detailing your full personality profile, interests, academic history, banking records, credit history, and career aptitudes.
-m

Yeah I stopped doing that after I realized how much paper I was using.