The Big Relationship Thread

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Re: The Big Relationship Thread

Postby Avistew » 05 Aug 2012, 13:06

Sean and I also don't really know when we started being a couple. We didn't remember exactly, but we remembered we were by the 4th of July, so we set it as Canada Day.
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Re: The Big Relationship Thread

Postby TheRocket » 05 Aug 2012, 14:23

Wraith and I effectively became an official couple during the Oh Shit Show CD release party I was shooting. I will have to check my poster archive, but I believe it was Aug 22. We never celebrated an anniversary before our wedding, though. It was funny how we became a couple. I decided to leave the party early and texted him saying "We need to talk". I had two other guys besides him trying to date me at the time and he knew this but never gave up on his quest to be the one. I don't know if you know this, but Wraith is a little stubborn. He says it was the fastest he's ever driven to get home to talk to me and one of the longest moments of his life. I thought it was HILARIOUS, until I found out he was on the road when he got my message.
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Re: The Big Relationship Thread

Postby Metcarfre » 09 Aug 2012, 12:58

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Re: The Big Relationship Thread

Postby Matt » 09 Aug 2012, 13:11

Oh, Scalzi, I kinda love you.

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Re: The Big Relationship Thread

Postby Metcarfre » 09 Aug 2012, 13:14

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Re: The Big Relationship Thread

Postby Matt » 09 Aug 2012, 13:15

I was just about to post that as related material myself.

Holy shit that column is good.

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Re: The Big Relationship Thread

Postby Avistew » 09 Aug 2012, 20:45

metcarfre wrote:Oct. 10 date-aversary.

The Incomplete Guide To Not Creeping


I have a problem with this article. Not a "how dare he! He's just wrong!" kind of problem. I'm just confused.

See, a couple of the pieces of advice boil down to "don't do A. Let other person do A". But if everyone follows the advice, nobody's ever going to do A, because everyone is going to wait on the other. It seems like if not doing A is basic courtesy, we shouldn't ALSO be told to expect the other person to.

So basically, it was confusing to me. I'm fine with not touching people (although I've never controlled that before, so it seems like I'm likely to do it out of habit and would have to work really hard not to), and I guess to a lesser extent I'm fine with not making innuendos (although it seems to me anyone who isn't fine with sexual innuendos is someone I don't want to be talking to in the first place).
But then, I'm not sure why he turns around and says "let them do it" rather than "get over the fact that there will be no touching and no jokes".

Especially since he started by saying any gender can be creepy to any gender. So it's not like he's saying "males can't initiate contact with females, females should initiate contact" or "sex jokes have to come from females", which would be sexist anyway.

So, how do you conciliate the two?
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Re: The Big Relationship Thread

Postby Matt » 09 Aug 2012, 21:04

The whole argument is coming from a position of assuming that the pursuer is the one making the pursued feel uncomfortable. The thesis of the article is, that when it comes to establishing comfort levels with a prospect in situations where you are the pursuer, allow them to establish the level of familiarity. The idea being that it is a mark of a creeper to assert levels of intimacy without gauging the receptiveness of the other party first.

example:

I ask a girl on a date. We have a fairly casual evening out. At the end of the evening, I allow her to establish the level of physical intimacy that she is comfortable with. I let her initiate a hug or a handshake, or whatever. I don't assume that because I took her out, that she necessarily owes me the level of physical intimacy that I want.


There's also an unwritten subtext to this article that expects an understanding of the power imbalance naturally present in the sexual politics between men and women, which Scalzi (as an identified feminist) has a bad habit of taking for granted in his audience - that is, he preaches to the choir better than he writes for an audience that may not already buy in to the idea that that imbalance is present.
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Re: The Big Relationship Thread

Postby Avistew » 09 Aug 2012, 22:09

I guess I understand the pursuer/pursued thing better, but what if both parties are equally interested? Or, which is closer to my case, what if you're not interested at all but like hugging people?

I guess what I mean is, I don't consider myself a pursuer, but I don't want to be a creep, so I'd definitely be willing to make a conscious effort not to put my hand on someone's shoulder or something, because I don't know if they like being touched.
I don't think you need to be interested in someone or to be pursuing them for them to be uncomfortable or think you're a creeper. But I would definitely feel bad if being careful about things like that caused me to miss out on friendships because people thought I was cold or didn't want to be friends or something.

I guess it works better for me if you phrase it as "adapt your level of joking/touching to the other person's". If they touch you a lot and joke a lot, it's fair game to do the same. If they look uncomfortable when you make a joke and stand far away from you, then adapt to them.

However, I guess this approach still includes the first joke or the first trying to make contact, which is probably enough for some people to feel awkward.
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Re: The Big Relationship Thread

Postby Matt » 09 Aug 2012, 22:19

I think you're probably overthinking it.

If two people are mutually interested, then there will naturally be some interplay that goes on as they find a comfort zone within which they can operate, and you're not really at risk of coming off as a "creeper" if your attentions are wanted.

My date example was a little off the mark for that reason, but I was just trying to illustrate a dynamic.

The advice in the column is directed at people who are trying to initiate levels of familiarity with strangers or acquaintances with which they have no business asserting that level of familiarity, and for whom the exchange is strictly one-way.

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Re: The Big Relationship Thread

Postby Avistew » 10 Aug 2012, 10:47

Matt wrote:I think you're probably overthinking it.


Oh, almost certainly.

This being said, I think making a "if they like you back/if hey're receptive" exception isn't that useful, since the main characteristic of a creeper is that they don't realise their attentions are unwanted.
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Re: The Big Relationship Thread

Postby Matt » 10 Aug 2012, 11:22

I would argue that in the case of a legit creeper it's more common that they don't care, but sure.

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Re: The Big Relationship Thread

Postby goat » 11 Aug 2012, 13:24

=)

(i think)
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Re: The Big Relationship Thread

Postby gcninja » 12 Aug 2012, 00:25

"If we were in Taiwan, I would probably date you" :|
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Re: The Big Relationship Thread

Postby Cybertrash » 12 Aug 2012, 02:18

Taiwan? o,O
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Re: The Big Relationship Thread

Postby Lyinginbedmon » 12 Aug 2012, 03:59

Ladyboy reference I think
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Re: The Big Relationship Thread

Postby Fezzul » 12 Aug 2012, 04:15

Maybe they just wanted to call you a Maiden. A Maiden from Taiwan. Maiden Taiwan. Made in Taiwan.

Pun foul?
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Re: The Big Relationship Thread

Postby gcninja » 12 Aug 2012, 04:32

Fezzul wrote:Maybe they just wanted to call you a Maiden. A Maiden from Taiwan. Maiden Taiwan. Made in Taiwan.

Pun foul?

Or... maybe it's a person (Tanya) I've spent significant time with unbeknownst to both of us. The first was when I noticed something was wrong and it turns out there was. Basically her coworkers/peers from taiwas she was living with turned against (all but three or so) her because their "leader" didn't like her. So we talked for 3 hours which did/n't help because apparently she didn't like her from the beginning for no reason and Tanya was really hurt by this. Since then we've talked a lot and hung out quite. Went bowling with some other Taiwanese people and afterward sat in my car and chatted from 10pm to 1 am again just about everything. She knew I had somewhat of a crush on her and we talked about that too but it came and went with no significant time spent on it.
Throughout this I've been keeping an eye on her making sure they're not bullying her and a couple days ago noticed she was looking down. I asked her and she was surprised because she thought she had a good poker face on because nobody else asked. I just told her it's a thing I do. That night we had some fun, some drinks with friends of mine just to pull her away from her own room mates as we've done a couple times and as we were leaving a shooting star appears. So she found a rock, I found a nice dirt patch and we laid and talked for 3 hours about her life, mine, and her crappy as bf who doesn't do anything for her and is the definition of NEET. She pays her half their rent, his parents pay his and he plays videogames at home all day. He said he'd get a summer job while she was here and when she got here she asked him and he replied, "oh it's too much work" but she doesn't have the courage to dump him (though I should say didn't have).
Then tonight she came over because she was goign to stay at a friends house because the girls were talking shit about people at work and she didn't want to be there so she left with some stuff just saying, "See you tomorrow, bye guys" and nobody even said bye. As she was going down stairs she heard their leader mock her voice and say, "Oh is she goign to stay with the dicks".. The dicks being the Russians and Ukrainians.. <_< Yeah. So she came over and we talked and she began to cry. For the first time I actually put my arm around her and even hugged her and let her cry it out. She slumped against me and we talked for a bit. It began to rain a little so again we got in my car. We talked and I made her laugh, she whipped out a small piece of cheese cake and enjoyed the sugar. She said the above line too. We talked about FMA vs FMA B, about her family, and in the end I drove her to her friends place (a gay couple we work with).
On the way, Give you Hell came on so we laughed about her giving the girl leader hell and when we got there we had a moment of silence just looking at each other after the song, I told her I'd post something nice on her wall an, hugged and she left. And... that's where I'm at. Tonight we are to go see the big show of shooting stars and I've considered at least going for a kiss as she's said in the past, "I'm single here" but has stated she doesn't want more than sex. the "leader" hooked up witha guy already and he's proposed in a month so she's playing it pretty smart it seems.
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Re: The Big Relationship Thread

Postby JustAName » 17 Aug 2012, 23:50

Two years. And I've never been happier. <3
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Re: The Big Relationship Thread

Postby The Jester » 17 Aug 2012, 23:58

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That's really awesome. Congratulations, you two. :D
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Re: The Big Relationship Thread

Postby Darkobra » 18 Aug 2012, 00:57

Damn it. My girlfriend's not going to be able to spend time with me today OR our 2 year anniversary tomorrow. Legitimate reasons but damn it!

If you need me, I'll be rocking back and forward in the corner for five minutes, realise I'm hungry, go get food, play some games, kill some robots tonight, work on my drumming because I've been in a funk mood lately and then BACK TO THE CORNER TO ROCK! ... Not in the same way as funk.
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Re: The Big Relationship Thread

Postby Lyinginbedmon » 18 Aug 2012, 05:24

For all my efforts I'm exactly zero steps closer to anything resembling romance. "Dying alone" might actually be a realistic venture at this point.
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Re: The Big Relationship Thread

Postby Elomin Sha » 18 Aug 2012, 05:56

Lyinginbedmon wrote:For all my efforts I'm exactly zero steps closer to anything resembling romance. "Dying alone" might actually be a realistic venture at this point.


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Re: The Big Relationship Thread

Postby auberginequeen » 18 Aug 2012, 06:55

Lyinginbedmon wrote:For all my efforts I'm exactly zero steps closer to anything resembling romance. "Dying alone" might actually be a realistic venture at this point.


You'll probably take this with a grain of salt due to things I've said to you in the past, but I mean this as an honest, rational assessment of your situation.

About 95% of my friends are men, most of whom are single and some of whom have never been in a relationship.

These men are all ages 20 - 26.

What I'm trying to say is, you're a cool cat, ya dig? A real hoopy frood. No need to go into panic mode, you're not an old man yet.
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Re: The Big Relationship Thread

Postby Lyinginbedmon » 18 Aug 2012, 07:02

Not old, no, at least not in the typical sense (I'm often heard to bemoan my aching back or the youth of today, if I had one I'm sure I'd tell the neighborhood rascals to stay off my lawn), I'm just too romantic for my own good and I'm feeling a bit lonely in that area of things.
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