The Big Relationship Thread

[Lyinginbedmon]

A anti-christ, gunner, I'm a anti-christ.

[Mad Madam Mimm]

"An".

The correct pronoun is "an". Also, while we're on the subject of poor grammar, your use of assertive words in previous posts imply you are talking from experience in regards to the whole "kids change your life" thing. Anything you'd like to share?

And Jim, I think you should maybe talk to your father/male friends and family members who have kids, and see if they really wanted kids before they had them. I know it sounds ridiculously trite, but a lot of people seem to have their entire outlook on life changed by having children. Discuss things like adoption or fostering, in terms of a middle-ground, maybe? I honestly can't offer much but support here... Hugs?

[Lyinginbedmon]

Very true, but the usual initial transformation is from "The" to "A", so I went with the literary convention.

And no dear, I haven't any offspring I'm aware of. But a reasonable working knowledge of human nature and experience (I am become The Internet, bringer of Lols) I can say that whilst someone may not want children initially, once they have them and raise them and see them learn and grow, any ideas about their life without them tend to wither and crumble.

[Theremin]

-snip-

Jim, I'm going to tell you this straight.

End it. Now. Before you do something you regret.

You've only been together since March, so you're not losing anything too important. This isn't a disagreement you can resolve. An immovable object has met an irresistable force; there is no where for the two of you to go from here.

A bunch of people are saying "Yeah, go ahead, just have 'em. You'll love 'em when they pop out...probably.".

That's the best case scenario. A scenario that relies on you betraying your own instincts and having a complete overhaul of opinion on a very important subject. It's not likely.

It's lovely to think that you'll immediately fall in love with an infant just because it's yours, but that isn't realistic. Can you imagine having a baby, and just despising it? I mean, if you really don't want kids, and it sounds like you don't, what else would you feel for progeny that has been forced upon you?

In this scenario, finding happiness is the lottery win. Fantastic, but really unlikely.

Save yourself a lot of heartache, and get out now. The relationship isn't going anywhere you want to be.

[Evil Jim]

Theremin pretty much has it. I know myself well enough that having a kid would pretty much ruin my life. But it's the only thing I can think of that would be worse than losing my Holly.

I don't have the heart to end it now. I'm too attached. It's not like she can just turn off her feelings either. Being together has been an incredibly positive experience for both of us, & I don't mean just having a good time. It has allowed us to grow as people that would have taken much longer or might not have been possible if we hadn't found each other.

We haven't broken up yet. We only had the conversation last nite. It's not like anyone wronged anyone else or cheated or lost interest. Our feelings have only been growing over time. There's only that one thing, that one little difference, otherwise we're perfect for each other. How do you just stop?

[Theremin]

I get what you're feeling, and maybe it's fine not to end it right this second.

But at best, you're only prolonging the inevitable.

I don't say this to be uncaring, but there are more girls. A fuckton. You can get another one.

Besides, ending it doesn't mean you'll never see her again. Just means you two won't be a thing.

[2stepz]

"An".

The correct pronoun is "an".

No. An is not a pronoun. It is an article.

[2stepz]

Jim

First *hugs.* I hate when relationships end due to something like this. I think, if the attitude you've expressed here is true to your heart, that you really have no choice. You're going to miserable either way... but the choice is between being miserable for a long time with Holly and a kid, or being miserable for a shorter time without either. *sigh* I wish I had a better interpretation for you.

All the hugs and emotional support I can give you is available through the wonders of the interwebs.

[Mad Madam Mimm]

"An".

The correct pronoun is "an".

No. An is not a pronoun. It is an article.

Really? I was always told it was a pronoun... Lying English Teachers! How dare they!

Jim- Maybe you should just sit down together and talk about the pros and cons of staying together with this in mind? I really don't know...
I reinforce 2stepz offer of hugs and support. Hugs!

[Theremin]

I reinforce my own strategy of decisive action!

Rawr!

[2stepz]

"An".

The correct pronoun is "an".

No. An is not a pronoun. It is an article.

Really? I was always told it was a pronoun... Lying English Teachers! How dare they!

In the English language, "a" "an" and "the" are articles that supplement nouns. They do not replace nouns. Therefore, they cannot be pronouns.

[Master Gunner]

Has someone being "dun told"?

Quickly, to the flowchart!

[iamafish]

the grammar Nazis march to glorious victory once again! soon Moscow shall be ours!

I'm sure we all know how that turn out.

[JustAName]

Scorched earth and freezing death?

[Dubious_wolf]

sunshine lollipops and rainbows

[Evil Jim]

Just a brief update for those that have been reading throughout my current crisis. - And THANK YOU, by the way, for the responses & just general company, here & on Twitter. One thing you don't need after a conversation like the one I had was to be left to yourself for a great amount of time.

She & I talked again tonite. It was awkward at first but we were quickly able to become friendly again. We agree intellectually our impasse is a relationship dead-end but emotionally, neither actually desires letting go. We agreed to reconsider our stances, mine on not wanting children, hers on wanting them. I admit this is probably futile, but we value each other too much to give up without trying. As long as the subject doesn't turn into the elephant in the room.

The brief evening went well after that & it was pretty much like what I must now refer to as "old times." I'm in a much better mood at the moment & that will at least help me get through day-to-day stuff. If this does indeed have to end I'd prefer a gradual weaning rather than a sudden break-off, but I really can't tell what will happen. Does that even work?

[TomBrend]

That date was awesome. Just saying.

[Alja-Markir]

I've been with my sweetheart for five years now.

She knows more about my life and who I am than anyone else. She's always so patient with me, even with the things she can't fully fathom. We talk about everything, even the things we're scared to talk about. One of us will always step forward when the other tries to hide away, will drive both of us to find courage and trust and faith.

Naturally enough, of course, there are some differences we struggle to see eye to eye on. Certain values, certain traditions or expectations that we seem to draw a blank on when attempting to find common ground.

For example, she's very close with her family, whereas my family is... well, we're like strangers these days. At least, the family I was born into, that is. I do have another, one that's fallen into place around me in recent years, made up of all my dear friends and loved ones. But my nuclear family? Chuir m'athair mise dha'n taigh charraideach.

Yet, for all the difficulty I have in dealing with my own genetic family, I can at least understand where my sweetheart is coming from with hers, and I make a powerful effort to honor her feelings toward her own family, and to help her deal with them with patience and love. And really, that's the thing about all of our troubles. We can always find a way to work through them; to do the right thing, and to believe in each other. In the end, it all works out for the best.

But lately, one particular rift of understanding has been more obstinate and difficult to bear than others. It is an odd trouble, and one I don't expect other to have much empathy with - I understand my own oddity well enough to know that it is a very touchy subject for the average person.

I'm in love with more people than just my sweetheart. Really, truly, passionately and chronically in love. And I see no conflict of interest in that, at least not rationally.

In fact, from an entirely logical standpoint, I think the modern system of monophilia is an outdated relic of hereditary government and property law. But that's a different matter than the one at hand, and one already addressed quite ably by others who have come before me.

The trouble is this - jealousy. In particular, the fact that I seem to lack it while my sweetheart wrestles fitfully with it. When I find myself thinking longingly of one of the other women I love, I can't understand why my sweetheart feels so strangely because of it. I can grasp the concept of what she is feeling, but I can't truly understand it because I don't feel the same way.

Whenever I imagine her with other lovers than myself, I only ever end up smiling. I imagine all the joy that could be brought to her life, all the little things that someone else could to do make her happy that I myself am ill equipped to do. Why would I be upset at someone doing something to make the woman I love happy? Why would I feel wronged by this person, and angry with them? In truth, I feel quite the opposite - anyone who loved my sweetheart would earn my love as well: a gratitude and a joy in knowing they genuinely wanted to bring happiness to her.

Yet, whenever I find myself bubbly and cheerful from corresponding with one of my other loves, I always feel I'm walking on eggshells. My poor sweetheart doesn't mean to feel jealous - logically she admits it makes no sense at all - but her heart won't listen to her mind all the time.

She has a fear we both know is irrational, the fear that I'd leave and never come back, that I'd abandon her for someone "prettier" or "better". And she knows damn well that I think that's hogwash, she knows that I don't care for the superficial "beauty" society tells us to see and appreciate, she knows that I will always love her for who she is and will fight like there's no tomorrow to keep my promises to her, even while I love others as well. And she trusts me. But I fear she doesn't trust herself.

I dunno. I don't quite know what to do, and I'm not really asking for advice on something so strange and out there. I guess it just helps to get it off my chest?

I'll tell you what I know. I love my sweetheart, for many different reasons. I also love certain others, for their own reasons. And more than just that, I feel that the love I have for those others actually strengthens my love for my sweetheart. That when I can take joy in the happiness of my other loves, it better helps me to bring happiness to her as well.

Maybe there is some unfathomable and mystic power to love. Or maybe it's just psychology and physiology. And maybe it's all just in my head. But I tell you this now - love begets love. Love is never a bad thing. It can hurt terribly sometimes, but love itself is only ever a blessing. And just as surely as hatred can destroy the world, love can save it instead.

~Alja~

[Gordon Fearman]

Anyone getting a creepy vibe from Alja using the word 'sweetheart' so much?

Hey, buddy. Look me in the eyes.





DO NOT EAT YOUR GIRLFRIEND.


Anyway, here's a solution. You have multiple girlfriends, I'll have none, and we'll average each other out.

[aeric90]

Okay... poly/multi amoury/eros is not something that everyone can handle. I'm of the opinion that the way we feel amorous love may differ from person to person just as fluidly as gender and sexuality can be.

No matter how much you try you are not going to get your "sweetheart" to understand or cope with how you feel just as much as you don't understand how she does. I would be cautious about calling her fear 'irrational' because you're dealing with a feelings that are completely foreign to her, in which case fear is a completely rational response.

Unfortunately I don't see anyway this could work out positively unless someone lives in complete and unhealthy denial either way.

[Alja-Markir]

Such negativity. But, I suppose I expected it somewhat.

Personally? My lass and I know full well the rigors of dealing with who I am and what I feel. We've been through worse, we've lasted five years through distance and isolation and worries of much greater sorts. Most of the time we're the only ones who believed we'd ever succeed, and we're proud to have proven the world wrong time and again.

As per my polyphilia, I love, but I do not necessarily act upon that love. I share it with those I love, I let it be known. But, I won't allow my love to lead me to make rash decisions or to hurt others. And for every person I've shared my love with, none have been anything less than accepting and understanding of my desire to tell them my feelings even if I never do act on them.

Despite how the situation may seem on the surface, both myself and my darling would argue that for five years now everything has, in fact, been working out incredibly positively, and specifically because we fight constantly against denial, and to be as open and honest as possible.

Still, felt good to write about recent frustrations, even if only for my own benefit.

~Alja~

[Tapir12]

I don't really have anything to say (since I know squat about relationships) but I'd just like to thank Alja for sharing and really making me think. I hope you can work through it.

[The Jester]

If all you do is tell other people you love them rather than act on those feelings, are you 100% sure they're romantic feelings and not platonic ones? And that your girl is the only one for whom you have romantic feelings?

On the subject of polyamoury... it's so alien to me that I cannot agree with it, and so cannot suggest anything constructive. I understand the concept, but couldn't stand to be involved in it personally, and I'd probably feel like I couldn't be that close a friend with them.

You say that monoanoury is a relic? Well, there's plenty of things I could say in reply, but all of them are negative so I'll refrain. Plainly put, I disagree. ಠ_ರೃ

[JustAName]

POLYAMORY IS WRONG! I'm pretty sure that's been covered before.

...Polyphilia is a matter of personality, though, I think, and while it doesn't suit me in particular, I'm not going to say some people can't make it work.

[Theremin]

NO IT ISN'T.

Good talk.