Paul may have 3 PS3s, but the US Air Force has 2536 PS3s

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Paul may have 3 PS3s, but the US Air Force has 2536 PS3s

Postby jtaylor » 29 Nov 2009, 21:49

Although Paul does have a cake...

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/11/25/ps3_supercomputer/
The Article wrote:The US Air Force plans to buy a whopping 2200 PlayStation 3 games consoles which it will use to expand an existing PS3-based supercomputer.

The current cluster of consoles contains 336 PS3s, each connected by their RJ45 ports to a common 24-port Gigabit Ethernet hub, Air Force online documentation states.

The entire set-up runs on an in-house developed Linux-based OS.

However, the expanded PS3 supercomputer will be used to further the Air Force’s “architectural studies” which “determine what software and hardware technologies are implemented [in] military systems”.

The Air Force hasn’t said much more than this, preferring to keep its intentions close to its medal-bedecked chest. However, it did describe one possible scenario where the PS3 supercomputer could be used to determine additional software and hardware requirements for advanced computing architectures and high-performance embedded computing applications.

The PS3 supercomputer has previously been used to test methods of processing multiple radar images into higher resolution composite images – known as Back Projection Synthetic Aperture Radar Imager formation — additional Air Force documents revealed.

It is unclear when then the US Air Force hopes to have its 2536-strong PS3 supercomputer up and running. Presumably it's after the squadies are done playing Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2. ®
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Re: Paul may have 3 PS3s, but the US Air Force has 2536 PS3s

Postby iEatNinjaZ » 29 Nov 2009, 21:52

Someones gotta keep Sony in business.
Oh wait they don't make a profit from PS3s!
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Re: Paul may have 3 PS3s, but the US Air Force has 2536 PS3s

Postby Dave-O_Boy » 29 Nov 2009, 21:54

Oh this would have been the perfect bit for an ENN.
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Re: Paul may have 3 PS3s, but the US Air Force has 2536 PS3s

Postby the amativeness » 29 Nov 2009, 21:56

Dave-O_Boy wrote:Oh this would have been the perfect bit for an ENN.


Who says it can't be? They can still use this for another few weeks before it's "stale".
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Re: Paul may have 3 PS3s, but the US Air Force has 2536 PS3s

Postby ExplodingSims » 29 Nov 2009, 21:57

Geez, couldn't they just buy the cell-cores? Wouldn't that be cheaper?
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Re: Paul may have 3 PS3s, but the US Air Force has 2536 PS3s

Postby gcninja » 29 Nov 2009, 22:00

you know that there are only going to be 2533 so that they can LAN with some...hell i would
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Re: Paul may have 3 PS3s, but the US Air Force has 2536 PS3s

Postby octopimpostor » 29 Nov 2009, 22:12

Pauls 3 ps3 > air forces 2536
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Re: Paul may have 3 PS3s, but the US Air Force has 2536 PS3s

Postby ExplodingSims » 29 Nov 2009, 22:17

octopimpostor wrote:Pauls 3 ps3 > air forces 2536


This is true. As well as 3 PS3s, Paul still has cake. The airforce has yet to outdo that.
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Re: Paul may have 3 PS3s, but the US Air Force has 2536 PS3s

Postby octopimpostor » 29 Nov 2009, 22:18

ExplodingSims wrote:
octopimpostor wrote:Pauls 3 ps3 > air forces 2536


This is true. As well as 3 PS3s, Paul still has cake. The airforce has yet to outdo that.

Thus pauls cake + pauls 3 ps3's > God
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Re: Paul may have 3 PS3s, but the US Air Force has 2536 PS3s

Postby Father Time » 29 Nov 2009, 22:22

The air force isn't the only one using them

http://www.gamepolitics.com/2009/11/16/ ... -passwords

This is sad though, why can't the US government make their own super computers or at least get custom ones made?

For God sakes didn't they play a big a role in making the freaking internet?
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Re: Paul may have 3 PS3s, but the US Air Force has 2536 PS3s

Postby octopimpostor » 29 Nov 2009, 22:24

Father Time wrote:This is sad though, why can't the US government make their own super computers or at least get custom ones made?

Tis because Obama is making our government suck. and we need to be even more in debt.
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Re: Paul may have 3 PS3s, but the US Air Force has 2536 PS3s

Postby ExplodingSims » 29 Nov 2009, 22:32

HOLD IT!

What if the Air Force is REALLY run by Microsoft now? I suspect we'll see someone buy a lot of 360's soon.
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Re: Paul may have 3 PS3s, but the US Air Force has 2536 PS3s

Postby octopimpostor » 29 Nov 2009, 22:42

wait... why would they have bought the ps3's
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Re: Paul may have 3 PS3s, but the US Air Force has 2536 PS3s

Postby ExplodingSims » 29 Nov 2009, 22:50

To drive Sony out of business of course!
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Re: Paul may have 3 PS3s, but the US Air Force has 2536 PS3s

Postby octopimpostor » 29 Nov 2009, 22:54

but how would that help. didn't they buy them all?
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Re: Paul may have 3 PS3s, but the US Air Force has 2536 PS3s

Postby sdhonda » 29 Nov 2009, 22:58

I'm pretty sure Sony loses money on every PS3 sold. They make it up with the game sales.

So unless they're buying a half dozen games with each of those PS3s...
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Re: Paul may have 3 PS3s, but the US Air Force has 2536 PS3s

Postby Ergo » 29 Nov 2009, 23:00

...I don't get it. I see this story every now and then - organisation X is building a PS3 cluster. Even with the dropping price of PS3s it still doesn't make sense to me.

I've worked with the Cell chip before, and the SPEs are terrible at double-precision floating-point math! It was never designed for scientific calculations - that's why IBM produces the PowerXCell 8i variant. Given that the PowerXCell is well over 10 times faster at double-precision math I'd seriously question the price/performance ratio of a PS3 cluster versus a PowerXCell blade cluster.

In fact, working in AUD, a PS3 is ~$500, a QS22 Blade with 2 PowerXCell 8is is a bit under $10,000. In terms of price/processor performance the QS22's are quite a margin ahead already. But when you consider that:
    1) The QS22 has 8GB of RAM standard, and up to 32GB, plus a bunch of other good stuff.
    2) With the QS22 you're not wasting power on all the other useless crap the PS3 has in it...
    3) The advantage the blades have over the PS3s will increase linearly the more you buy.
    4) The blades are DESIGNED for this kind of work, meaning far less bottleneck issues (amongst other things).

I mean they could be leveraging the PS3 GPU but they'd run into more severe precision/bottlenecking problems there too! Besides which as I understand it the PS3 GPU would be pretty restricted in terms of GPGPU stuff anyway (versus newer architectures like the 2xxGTX series/Tesla).

Still, maybe I'm missing some vital piece of information which procludes me from understanding their rationale. I've spoken to a number of people at conferences and such and they all say the same thing: This is a bad idea. I guess no-one told the US Air Force.
Last edited by Ergo on 29 Nov 2009, 23:10, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Paul may have 3 PS3s, but the US Air Force has 2536 PS3s

Postby Cake » 29 Nov 2009, 23:07

My Cakey senses have gone off on this thread!
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Re: Paul may have 3 PS3s, but the US Air Force has 2536 PS3s

Postby sdhonda » 29 Nov 2009, 23:09

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Re: Paul may have 3 PS3s, but the US Air Force has 2536 PS3s

Postby ExplodingSims » 29 Nov 2009, 23:15

I guess the reference wasn't obvious enough:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/ ... st-Leaders
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Re: Paul may have 3 PS3s, but the US Air Force has 2536 PS3s

Postby Ergo » 29 Nov 2009, 23:20


That's kind of a shame; it would've been a heck of a chip.

But it'd be very hard/impossible for them to compete with nVidia's Tesla range. I do wonder if AMD will take a stab though at some point.
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Re: Paul may have 3 PS3s, but the US Air Force has 2536 PS3s

Postby jtaylor » 29 Nov 2009, 23:46

Ergo wrote:...I don't get it. I see this story every now and then - organisation X is building a PS3 cluster. Even with the dropping price of PS3s it still doesn't make sense to me.

I've worked with the Cell chip before, and the SPEs are terrible at double-precision floating-point math! It was never designed for scientific calculations - that's why IBM produces the PowerXCell 8i variant. Given that the PowerXCell is well over 10 times faster at double-precision math I'd seriously question the price/performance ratio of a PS3 cluster versus a PowerXCell blade cluster.

In fact, working in AUD, a PS3 is ~$500, a QS22 Blade with 2 PowerXCell 8is is a bit under $10,000. In terms of price/processor performance the QS22's are quite a margin ahead already. But when you consider that:
    1) The QS22 has 8GB of RAM standard, and up to 32GB, plus a bunch of other good stuff.
    2) With the QS22 you're not wasting power on all the other useless crap the PS3 has in it...
    3) The advantage the blades have over the PS3s will increase linearly the more you buy.
    4) The blades are DESIGNED for this kind of work, meaning far less bottleneck issues (amongst other things).

I mean they could be leveraging the PS3 GPU but they'd run into more severe precision/bottlenecking problems there too! Besides which as I understand it the PS3 GPU would be pretty restricted in terms of GPGPU stuff anyway (versus newer architectures like the 2xxGTX series/Tesla).

Still, maybe I'm missing some vital piece of information which procludes me from understanding their rationale. I've spoken to a number of people at conferences and such and they all say the same thing: This is a bad idea. I guess no-one told the US Air Force.


The vital piece of information you are missing is they said they were working with combining radar imagery, which would be graphics processing, aka what the PS3 is good at, and also the stuff with using this computer to design more advanced supercomputers. They aren't doing double-precision floating-point scientific computations.
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Re: Paul may have 3 PS3s, but the US Air Force has 2536 PS3s

Postby Ergo » 30 Nov 2009, 00:06

jtaylor wrote:The vital piece of information you are missing is they said they were working with combining radar imagery, which would be graphics processing, aka what the PS3 is good at, and also the stuff with using this computer to design more advanced supercomputers. They aren't doing double-precision floating-point scientific computations.

Producing modern game graphics and performing scientific image processing are very different tasks computationally (I've worked in both fields), and the latter is always performed in double-precision math.

It's interesting to note that the most ardent anti-PS3-cluster person I've spoken to worked in meteorology. His team was tasked with processing - you guessed it - radar imagery on the Cell chip.

In both cases my point still stands; they could do the same job faster or cheaper (to a point, obviously) using purpose-built supercomputing hardware.

They couldn't play Modern Warfare 2 though.

And they still wouldn't have cake. (Or any PS3s for that matter).
Last edited by Ergo on 30 Nov 2009, 00:25, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Paul may have 3 PS3s, but the US Air Force has 2536 PS3s

Postby MattAn » 30 Nov 2009, 00:23

But guys, Paul is Paul, therefore Paul > US Air Force.

Why? Because he's Paul, damnit!
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Re: Paul may have 3 PS3s, but the US Air Force has 2536 PS3s

Postby Ergo » 30 Nov 2009, 01:05

...I don't get it. I see this story every now and then - the US Air Force thinks they're the most awesome thing ever. Even with the unbeardedness of Paul it still doesn't make sense to me.

I've worked with Paul before, he's amazing at pretty much everything! Paul was always awesome, especially with his 3 PS3s - that's why the US Air Force is buying so many PS3s. Given that Paul is well over 10 times as awesome I'd seriously question the awesome factor of a PS3 cluster versus just basking in the radiated awesome of Paul.

In fact, working on a scale from 1 to awesome, a PS3 is OK, but Paul (with or without his beard) is super-great. In terms of awesomeness Paul is quite a margin ahead already. But when you consider that:

    1) Paul has the ability to turn into Ulric, plus a bunch of other awesome characters.
    2) Paul doesn't require mains-power (as far as we know), so you're not wasting power on all those PS3s...
    3) The advantage Paul has over the PS3s will increase exponentially the more you think about it.
    4) Paul is DESTINED to be awesome, meaning that an attempt to compete with him is completely futile.

I mean they could be leveraging the PS3 GPUs to create a virtual Paul, but they'd run into more severe not-being-awesome problems there too! Besides which as I understand it virtual Paul would be pretty restricted in terms of being awesome (versus newer technologies like a Paul clone).

Still, maybe I'm missing some vital piece of information which procludes me from understanding their rationale. I've spoken to a number of people at conferences and such and they all say the same thing: Paul is more awesome. I guess no-one told the US Air Force.
Last edited by Ergo on 30 Nov 2009, 01:19, edited 2 times in total.

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