Brain Hurts... But Magenta Doesn't Exist

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Brain Hurts... But Magenta Doesn't Exist

Postby Arius » 10 Dec 2009, 23:48

http://www.null-hypothesis.co.uk/science/strange-but-true/profs-probings/colour_spectrum_magenta_complimentary_bizarre

So what does the brain do when our eyes detect wavelengths from both ends of the light spectrum at once (i.e. red and violet light)? Generally speaking, it has two options for interpreting the input data:

a) Sum the input responses to produce a colour halfway between red and violet in the spectrum (which would in this case produce green – not a very representative colour of a red and violet mix)
b) Invent a new colour halfway between red and violet


Magenta is the evidence that the brain takes option b – it has apparently constructed a colour to bridge the gap between red and violet, because such a colour does not exist in the light spectrum. Magenta has no wavelength attributed to it, unlike all the other spectrum colours.


tl;dr

The brain interprets colour mixes by their wavelength. Magenta (pink) doesn't exist in the visible light spectrum. The brain invents it to stand in for a red-violet mix.

still tl;dr
Pink doesn't exist.
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Re: Brain Hurts... But Magenta Doesn't Exist

Postby the amativeness » 11 Dec 2009, 00:32

Arius wrote:Pink doesn't exist.


Tell that to Kate. And Evil Jim.
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Re: Brain Hurts... But Magenta Doesn't Exist

Postby Evil Jim » 11 Dec 2009, 00:40

Arius wrote:still tl;dr
Pink doesn't exist.

Somthin' wrong wit' yo eyes, brotha.

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Re: Brain Hurts... But Magenta Doesn't Exist

Postby Arius » 11 Dec 2009, 00:50

Evil Jim wrote:
Arius wrote:still tl;dr
Pink doesn't exist.

Somthin' wrong wit' yo eyes, brotha.

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Re: Brain Hurts... But Magenta Doesn't Exist

Postby Gordon Fearman » 11 Dec 2009, 01:02

Man, you were just lazy.
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Re: Brain Hurts... But Magenta Doesn't Exist

Postby Elomin Sha » 11 Dec 2009, 01:03

Arius wrote:
Evil Jim wrote:
Arius wrote:still tl;dr
Pink doesn't exist.

Somthin' wrong wit' yo eyes, brotha.

Image


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Re: Brain Hurts... But Magenta Doesn't Exist

Postby Arius » 11 Dec 2009, 01:06

Gordon Fearman wrote:Man, you were just lazy.

It's 4 am, what do you want from me?
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Re: Brain Hurts... But Magenta Doesn't Exist

Postby epocalypse » 11 Dec 2009, 05:39

Arius wrote:The brain interprets colour mixes by their wavelength. Magenta (pink) doesn't exist in the visible light spectrum. The brain invents it to stand in for a red-violet mix.

still tl;dr
Pink doesn't exist.


Okay... this here, is stupid. Magenta (which is NOT pink) is an additive secondary color (subtractive primary). It is a mix of Blue and Red, just like Yellow (yes, Yellow) is a mix of Green and Red, and Cyan is a mix of Green and Blue. The only "actual colors" of light are Red, Green, and Blue (RGB Anyone?) The mixing of which can create all other color variants that are humanly visible. The others simple appear on a regular light spectrum because their Primaries appear to mix to the human eye. Interestingly, the Subtractive Primaries (CMY, and guess what they stand for) Can be mixed to create every visible color as well, which is why kids today longer get taught the atrocity of red, blue and yellow being primary colors. This is just a gross misinterpretation of color science. It's like people who don't realize that Black, Gray and White aren't not colors because they don't exist, but because their Gradations of Brightness.

Now, if you want a real mindfutzing, how about the point that there may not be fundamental colors at all.

Pink, however, a series of bright gradations of red and magenta that are easily confused, does not exist. It is the equivalent of an irrational number, and it's inability to be clearly expressed as a fraction is proof of this. I mean, duh people.
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Re: Brain Hurts... But Magenta Doesn't Exist

Postby Arius » 11 Dec 2009, 05:42

epocalypse wrote:
Arius wrote:The brain interprets colour mixes by their wavelength. Magenta (pink) doesn't exist in the visible light spectrum. The brain invents it to stand in for a red-violet mix.

still tl;dr
Pink doesn't exist.


Okay... this here, is stupid. Magenta (which is NOT pink)

Magenta is the official name for pink.

---

And as for the rest of it, the way they measure it is the wavelength. Magenta is the only colour in the visible spectrum without any wavelength whatsoever.
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Re: Brain Hurts... But Magenta Doesn't Exist

Postby epocalypse » 11 Dec 2009, 05:46

then why do they have... SEPARATE WIKIPEDIA PAGES!?!?!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magenta

Your move, Arius! Choose Wisely.
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Re: Brain Hurts... But Magenta Doesn't Exist

Postby Arius » 11 Dec 2009, 05:48

Iron Man and Robert Downey Jr. have separate Wikipedia pages.

And I dare you to prove that he's not really Iron Man. I mean come on, substance abuse, loose women, hyper advanced exo-suits. They share all the same things.
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Re: Brain Hurts... But Magenta Doesn't Exist

Postby epocalypse » 11 Dec 2009, 05:51

Arius wrote:Iron Man and Robert Downey Jr. have separate Wikipedia pages.

And I dare you to prove that he's not really Iron Man. I mean come on, substance abuse, loose women, hyper advanced exo-suits. They share all the same things.

Uh, Arius, actors are not actually the characters they portray in films (except for Sir Sean Connery, of course). I know, I was shocked too.

I like this discussion, it's silly.
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Re: Brain Hurts... But Magenta Doesn't Exist

Postby Arius » 11 Dec 2009, 05:55

Robert Downey Jr isn't an actor.

Now, Johnny Depp, that's an actor.
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Re: Brain Hurts... But Magenta Doesn't Exist

Postby manika » 11 Dec 2009, 05:56

somehow I expected to get to the wikipedia page about Pink, not about some diferent shades of magenta, rose, light red, or whatever it want's to be called ;-) (i know, cheap joke, but I couldn't resist)

epocalypse wrote:Okay... this here, is stupid. Magenta (which is NOT pink)


Magenta is not what is called Magenta using wikipedia's hex triplets though.

anyways: about that hurting brain, I know some people and all they wanna do is eat.. ok, i'll stop now and won't post anymore until I got some sleep.
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Re: Brain Hurts... But Magenta Doesn't Exist

Postby AlexanderDitto » 11 Dec 2009, 06:14

epocalypse wrote:The only "actual colors" of light are Red, Green, and Blue (RGB Anyone?) The mixing of which can create all other color variants that are humanly visible. The others simple appear on a regular light spectrum because their Primaries appear to mix to the human eye.


Uh, no. You're confusing human perception of light color with the physical characteristic of light that gives it its color. Red, Green, and Blue are the only vectors along which the cones in our eyes can measure light. That doesn't mean yellow light is doesn't exist: yellow light has a specific wavelength: 570–580 nm. It's just our eyes are able to interpret it because it activates the Long and Medium length cones (red and green respectively) about equally, which "mixes" to yellow.

When light mixes, its wavelength doesn't change. It's just... you have waves of two different wavelengths. Unless you have interference, but that's a whole 'nother discussion.

epocalypse wrote:Pink, however, a series of bright gradations of red and magenta that are easily confused, does not exist. It is the equivalent of an irrational number, and it's inability to be clearly expressed as a fraction is proof of this. I mean, duh people.



Uh, what? The comparison to irrational numbers is, I think, not really apt. I think the point is that magenta is "extra-spectral;" that is, it's can't be produced with a single wavelength of light, like colors in the spectrum can (rainbow colors). Pink AND various shades of purple (including magenta) share this property. The brain can interpret them because it has the ability to interpret a mixture of different wavelengths (long and short, as the article points out) as not simply the average of the wavelengths but as a new color entirely.
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Re: Brain Hurts... But Magenta Doesn't Exist

Postby masamune » 11 Dec 2009, 06:19

this thread is great.
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Re: Brain Hurts... But Magenta Doesn't Exist

Postby Kaemon » 11 Dec 2009, 06:23

This is... interesting, and the discussion is a well.

But just the idea of it is amazing... I still wouldn't say it doesn't exist, but its definitely not normal.
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Re: Brain Hurts... But Magenta Doesn't Exist

Postby Lord Chrusher » 11 Dec 2009, 06:33

White, gray, black, and brown are not single wavelengths either.
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Re: Brain Hurts... But Magenta Doesn't Exist

Postby Machalllewis » 11 Dec 2009, 06:34

I think we can safely file this one under the same heading as how one does not equal one.
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Re: Brain Hurts... But Magenta Doesn't Exist

Postby tak197 » 11 Dec 2009, 06:43

Are we arguing over color swatches? SERIOUSLY??
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Re: Brain Hurts... But Magenta Doesn't Exist

Postby Arius » 11 Dec 2009, 06:49

Lord Chrusher wrote:White, gray, black, and brown are not single wavelengths either.

The thing is, when you mix red and violet wavelengths, you should get green based on the wavelengths. When you have all the wavelengths, you get white. When you have green and red wavelengths mixed, you get yellow. When you have no wavelengths, you get black. Brown is from multiple wavelengths.

Magenta is from red and violet and as far as the visible spectrum is concerned, it's green. However, the brain processes it as magenta because as far as it's concerned, green doesn't fit.
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Re: Brain Hurts... But Magenta Doesn't Exist

Postby Mad Madam Mimm » 11 Dec 2009, 06:52

tak197 wrote:Are we arguing over color swatches? SERIOUSLY??


Yes.
Because this is an important decision and if you can't even commit to this... you know what, we're not having this argument in Homebase. God.
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Re: Brain Hurts... But Magenta Doesn't Exist

Postby manika » 11 Dec 2009, 06:53

Arius wrote:still
Pink doesn't exist.

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I think, green fits as well. Damn you eyes !
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Re: Brain Hurts... But Magenta Doesn't Exist

Postby epocalypse » 11 Dec 2009, 07:00

AlexanderDitto wrote:
epocalypse wrote:The only "actual colors" of light are Red, Green, and Blue (RGB Anyone?) The mixing of which can create all other color variants that are humanly visible. The others simple appear on a regular light spectrum because their Primaries appear to mix to the human eye.


Uh, no. You're confusing human perception of light color with the physical characteristic of light that gives it its color. Red, Green, and Blue are the only vectors along which the cones in our eyes can measure light. That doesn't mean yellow light is doesn't exist: yellow light has a specific wavelength: 570–580 nm. It's just our eyes are able to interpret it because it activates the Long and Medium length cones (red and green respectively) about equally, which "mixes" to yellow.

When light mixes, its wavelength doesn't change. It's just... you have waves of two different wavelengths. Unless you have interference, but that's a whole 'nother discussion.

epocalypse wrote:Pink, however, a series of bright gradations of red and magenta that are easily confused, does not exist. It is the equivalent of an irrational number, and it's inability to be clearly expressed as a fraction is proof of this. I mean, duh people.



Uh, what? The comparison to irrational numbers is, I think, not really apt. I think the point is that magenta is "extra-spectral;" that is, it's can't be produced with a single wavelength of light, like colors in the spectrum can (rainbow colors). Pink AND various shades of purple (including magenta) share this property. The brain can interpret them because it has the ability to interpret a mixture of different wavelengths (long and short, as the article points out) as not simply the average of the wavelengths but as a new color entirely.

let me put it this way, though I subscribe to the color theory that colors are the perceptual correlates of light and not the wave, I did phrase it in a way where I admit, I was wrong. You got me. However, on the second half, I got you.
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Re: Brain Hurts... But Magenta Doesn't Exist

Postby Elomin Sha » 11 Dec 2009, 07:36

manika wrote:somehow I expected to get to the wikipedia page about Pink, not about some diferent shades of magenta, rose, light red, or whatever it want's to be called ;-) (i know, cheap joke, but I couldn't resist)

epocalypse wrote:Okay... this here, is stupid. Magenta (which is NOT pink)


Magenta is not what is called Magenta using wikipedia's hex triplets though.

anyways: about that hurting brain, I know some people and all they wanna do is eat.. ok, i'll stop now and won't post anymore until I got some sleep.


Also remember that CYMK and RGB versions are completely different. RGB for colours on screen, CYMK for colours on paper.
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