Avatar:The Last Filmmaker OR Completely Avatarded

[Nevrmore]

It's sci-fi people. Let it go. Some universes have hollow planets. No matter how much we might hate a lack of logic and scientific fact in our entertainment, we just have to accept it and move on.

No we don't.

[Theremin]

It's sci-fi people. Let it go. Some universes have hollow planets. No matter how much we might hate a lack of logic and scientific fact in our entertainment, we just have to accept it and move on.

No we don't.

Agreed. In serious stories, stupidity isn't excusable.

[Cybren]

However, Unobtainium?? They actually called it a name that the internet already uses to make fun of that kind of bull, and no one ever winks at the camera over this floating bullshit?

I know, right?

That snapped me right out of the movie, every time they said it. I mean, maybe they were using the term mockingly, or that's just its nickname, but it's bad and dumb.

[JohnyMcmuffin]

After the initial shock of the silly name wore off, I decided to take it as a joke about the often ignored lower left corner of the periodic table of the elements:
http://www.webelements.com/

[TorachiKatashi]

It's sci-fi people. Let it go. Some universes have hollow planets. No matter how much we might hate a lack of logic and scientific fact in our entertainment, we just have to accept it and move on.

No we don't.

+1

[Matt]

For the record, I had no problem with the name unobtainium. Do you seriously think, the way we name elements that it's really that far-fetched? Assume it's fucking hard to get, doesn't exist on earth, and has only ever been synthesized in trace amounts. Y'really think it's so outside the realm of possibility that somone might call this unobtainable element unobtainium? Because, frankly, I don't.

-m

[Theremin]

For an actual element, no.
For a macguffin, it's pretty laughable.

[JesterJ.]

For the record, I had no problem with the name unobtainium. Do you seriously think, the way we name elements that it's really that far-fetched? Assume it's fucking hard to get, doesn't exist on earth, and has only ever been synthesized in trace amounts. Y'really think it's so outside the realm of possibility that somone might call this unobtainable element unobtainium? Because, frankly, I don't.

-m

I'm completely with Matt here. There's a reason my old chem professor replaces some of the Elements 110-118 with things like "iPodium." It's not so far-fetched.

[Graham]

Anyone questioning something like why the floating mountains were floating is not someone I want to watch movies with.

They explained it was some weird gravity vortex thing anyway.

[Cybren]

For the record, I had no problem with the name unobtainium. Do you seriously think, the way we name elements that it's really that far-fetched? Assume it's fucking hard to get, doesn't exist on earth, and has only ever been synthesized in trace amounts. Y'really think it's so outside the realm of possibility that somone might call this unobtainable element unobtainium? Because, frankly, I don't.

-m

You do realize unobtanium is a real term, right?

[TorachiKatashi]

Crazy things like that in movies is fine, but they should be able to explain why. "It does because it does," isn't a reason, it's just lazy plot writing, especially if the movie is supposed to be considered "sci-fi."

[epocalypse]

behold, from the source of all knowledge:

Unobtainium is a humorous name for any extremely rare, costly, or physically impossible material needed to fulfill a given design for a given application, usually in fiction or thought experiments. The properties of any particular unobtainium depend on the intended use.
...
Engineers have long (since at least the 1950s[2]) used the term unobtainium when referring to unusual or costly materials, or when theoretically considering a material perfect for their needs in all respects save that it doesn't exist.

and this is exactly the problem, it's way too unreasonable a name to be taken seriously, would never be used as an actual element name because of it's previously existing purpose, and it's never presented as a joke (if it is, it makes no sense, because avatar is not a parody universe), he might as well have called it phlebotinum or handwavium. I mean, c'mon, what do you call the magical macguffin element that runs your universe? You call it dilithium or acoustium, or even name it after a modern scientist, like call it hawkinium, or even goddamned Red Matter for God's sake. The problem is that if you know the term, it takes you out of it because you're trying to figure out if Cameron is making a joke, and if you don't, well... it's pretty much exactly the same. It's lazy and confusing writing in that respect, especially since it is nothing more than a MacGuffin. He'd have been better off calling it Noremacite of Dijamesium as far as I'm concerned.

[Genghis Ares]

I can't believe the number of sandy vaginas around here all worked up over a funny name they used maybe 5 times in the movie.

Yes I rolled my eyes at the name, but then I continued to watch the movie.

Also, epocalypse's quote makes the fact that they used it even better.

[epocalypse]

to you, but to me it took me out of the moment and got all this fucking sand in my vagina.

...metaphorically speaking, of course.

/male.

[Cybren]

The only people with sand in their vagina are the ones getting offended that someone offers criticism to a film they had no part in making.

[forkbomb!]

Meh, I'd rather watch something original.

Like the forty-third film adaptation of Sherlock Holmes.
Or the sequel to a movie that was based on a cartoon that was based on a novelty song.

[BritchesStitches]

Is questioning why the floating mountains are floating that bad? I mean, especially in a scifi film, methinks it's a legitimate question. They try to rationalize the whole flora/fauna band with the ethernet cord thing.. and the creation/application of Avatars was somewhat justified... I found such a fantastical element a bit jarring.

[forkbomb!]

FLOATING MOUNTAINS, MOTHERFUCKER!

what is this i don't even

Although they never explicitly state what its properties are, the MacGuffinium in the movie behaves a lot like a room temperature superconductor. Specifically, it demonstrates the Meissner effect when placed over that little plate in Ribisi's office. Now, throughout the movie Ana Lucia complains about "the flux" fluxxing with her instruments around the floating mountains; my guess is this is the strong magnetic fields given off by Grandmother Willow down in the middle there. Strong magnetic fields + naturally occurring high-temperature superconductors = MAKING SMALL ROCKS FLOAT UP OFF THE GROUND!!!.

Personally I like that they let the audience put it together themselves, instead of getting the guy from Dodgeball to marblemouth his way through a paragraph of exposition.

[Graham]

Personally I like that they let the audience put it together themselves, instead of getting the guy from Dodgeball to marblemouth his way through a paragraph of exposition.

Exactly. That's more than enough explanation.
At no point did I get the impression they just said "flying rocks would be sweet, let's just throw some in there!"

My objection to people questioning the mountains is that it doesn't matter.
It's not a plot-critical thing. How can the Nav'i control creatures with their brain-braid? How do the pilots reconnect with their avatars with no physical connection?
Those are plot-critical questions that you could argue if you want*, but does it really matter—at all—why the mountains float? No.

It like asking what evolutionary benefit the "helicopter lizards" are served by their strange mode of transport.


*But ultimately don't matter either.

[Nevrmore]

Okay, Graham, let's put this into perspective a bit.

Here is a video with James Cameron and others on the development team talking about some of the pains they went through in creating Pandora. He mentions having tables full of sketches of animal biology, and of working with botanists and zoologists and several others to help his creatures be as accurate as would be possible. At one point, someone says "What I say about Jim: When he does science fiction, he has to do science fact."

Here is an article about how James Cameron hired a USC professor and linguist to create the Na'vi language wholecloth and make sure it was a completely realized language that could be learned and spoken in fluently.

Another article talking about the linguist he hired, plus the botanists he got to give common, Latin, and Na'vi names to dozens of Pandoran plants he created and descriptions to them, an astrophysicist to calculate Pandora's atmospheric density, a music theorist to create what type of music the Na'vi would play, and more.

Cameron took great care in fleshing out this place to seem as much like a world that you could trick yourself into thinking was real as possible, and we're not faulting him for making a few small mistakes here and there. We're not saying, "Yeah well [X] animal would never actually work in the real world, it'd need at least EIGHT legs to maintain itself!" No, the man who spent years and hundreds of thousands of dollars working on making Pandora as real-to-life as possible made giant fucking floating mountains a part of the landscape. You can't ask us to swallow that pill, that just doesn't fucking work. How would you feel if J.R.R. Tolkien decided that three times a week, all the trees in Middle-Earth rocketed two miles into the air and raped every eagle they found with their branches? Would we just have to accept that since it's not critical to the plot?

Willing suspension of disbelief is flexible, but it is not resilient and it is not unbreakable. It is irresponsible for anyone - you, the people I went to see this movie with, the people who reviewed the movie, or James Cameron himself - to think that just because Avatar had outlandish elements means I have to accept every break from reality that they throw at me. That's bullshit. The idea is that the story sets a theme and implies what rules it does and doesn't follow at the beginning of the movie and keeps to it. If you want to make a movie that, for whatever reason, has it that all humans shit diamonds, then that is something you tell us at the fucking start. You don't wait until forty-five minutes in when the protagonist destroys his toilet when trying to flush his pirate's treasure. You don't just give Superman weird powers like memory-erasing kisses and cellophane S's and not explain it because hey if Superman can do other crazy stuff like flying and heat vision, then this is alright too! And you don't fucking make flying mountains a part of the goddamn landscape without a proper buildup!

[Arius]

Best. Ent. Slash. Fiction. Ever!
(Only?)

But, in theory they have a proper build up. Unobtanium disrupts magnetic fields and can cause levitation. They're searching for unobtanium. Flying mountains. There ya go.

[Graham]

I felt they were built up just fine, considering the mineral's already established floating properties.
Also, that they were treated as amazing by the characters, and not just some random everyday thing, lets the viewer know that something special is happening.


I can't believe I'm even debating with someone who's so angry about floating rocks. There's no point arguing a point like this with someone who obviously takes it as seriously as you do.

If you really want to let it bug you that much—to evidently ruin the movie for you—go right ahead.

[Nevrmore]

It's not the idea of the floating mountains that makes me so mad, though I don't like them to be sure. It's people telling me "Oh, that's a stupid thing to take issue with. You shouldn't get so worked up about it!" that pisses me off. If you didn't have any problem with the mountains, great, good for you, I'm glad that you were able to enjoy the movie more than I was. Don't tell me, though, that I'm not allowed to complain about parts that I don't think make sense just because it is not necessarily an important part of the plot.

[Graham]

You're allowed to complain about whatever you want, I'm allowed to think it's a dumb thing to take issue with.

We good?

[Nodge]

I really liked the film. Saw it in Imax, good times were had.

Gotta wonder why they stopped before the end though. You know, the bit they didn't show six months later where a series nuclear warheads detonated in the stratosphere and destroyed every living thing on the planet.
Except the miners in spacesuits that arrived a little later.