The Sex Thread

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Bananafish
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Re: The Sex Thread

Postby Bananafish » 25 Aug 2010, 07:11

All you've said was "there is something wrong with them" and I'm talking immorality and you're pursuing it so I assumed vOv
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Re: The Sex Thread

Postby Alja-Markir » 25 Aug 2010, 08:03

You'll note I was describing psychologies. People don't develop those sorts of behavioral tendencies for no reason. There is typically something psychologically wrong with them.

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Re: The Sex Thread

Postby Bananafish » 25 Aug 2010, 08:34

If someone's kink involves being dominated or dominating then they're psychologically damaged?
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Re: The Sex Thread

Postby The Jester » 25 Aug 2010, 09:20

I think so.
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Re: The Sex Thread

Postby Chfan » 25 Aug 2010, 09:54

No, I don't think so.

If the person knows that that is a part of their sexual identity and has a consenting partner who is willing to fulfill these fantasies, then why does it matter? As long as it doesn't negatively affect the rest of their life or anyone else's, what a person does in the bedroom can't really be immoral.

There may be underlying psychological reasons for that sort of thing, but as long as the person has come to terms with that and can express it in a healthy way, then I think it's very unfair to call them psychologically damaged. It's just another part of their sexual identity, psychological or no.

Just because you like feeling empowered doesn't make you a megalomaniac. It makes you kinky.
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Re: The Sex Thread

Postby Theremin » 25 Aug 2010, 10:42

It would be way more accurate to call someone who gets off on being dominated/dominating psychologically abnormal.

Because, y'know, the average person doesn't have those behaviours, and so the people who do are the exception, not the rule.
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Re: The Sex Thread

Postby Alja-Markir » 25 Aug 2010, 10:46

Okay, lemme rephrase.

I'm fine with dominance and submission as part of a healthy relationship. This takes the form of a sort of trust exchange. By being submissive to your partner, you are giving them power over you in trust, knowing they won't misuse it, and vice versa.

Where things begin to bother me is when the kink is for the power itself. There is a distinction. It's not excitement because your partner trusts you to the point of giving you complete control over them, it is a lust for the power itself.

Furthermore, I was originally talking about degradation of others, not necessaryily dominance and submission (although the two do overlap somewhat). Degradation is when you treat someone like they're inferior. If someone enjoys making others feel inferior, it is a clue as to their overall mentality. And conversely, if someone enjoys being made to feel inferior, that also is worrisome.

Why would someone enjoy being made to feel inferior? Well, if someone was simply "talking dirty" to their partner, there is a degree of separation involved. One would assume that the person being degraded knows they aren't actually worthless and inferior. Rather, the turn on is from the taboo of saying shocking and provocative things while doing a shocking and provocative thing (the sex itself). It's the breaking of the taboo that gets them off, not the actual "abuse" they are receiving.

The other case I can think of in which someone would enjoy feeling inferior is much more worrisome. Surely we've all known someone who was so desperate for attention that they would do negative things just to get a response, because negative attention was better than none at all. If not, surely we can all imagine such a person. When someone genuinely gets off on being degraded, there is something wrong with them. They've been put through abuse of some kind, have an inferiority complex, or are otherwise psychologically unsound.

Much the same can be said of those who legitimately enjoy degrading others. If someone honestly derives pleasure from trying to make people feel inferior to them, they have a problem somewhere. They might have a superiority complex and honestly think themselves better than everyone else. Or they might have an inferiority complex and are trying to compensate for their self loathing with a tough facade.

It's one thing to enjoy doing something you normally wouldn't as a way of breaking taboo. It's another entirely to enjoy the act itself.

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Re: The Sex Thread

Postby Chfan » 25 Aug 2010, 10:57

Okay, that makes more sense. Thanks for clearing it up.
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Re: The Sex Thread

Postby Bananafish » 25 Aug 2010, 18:07

nevermind, I don't want to do this semantics dance forever
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Re: The Sex Thread

Postby Agloriouscuppa » 25 Aug 2010, 18:10

I find it odd that this thread always seems to return to the whole dominant submissive thing.
It doesnt help does it?
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Re: The Sex Thread

Postby sdhonda » 25 Aug 2010, 18:14

Agloriouscuppa wrote:I find it odd that this thread always seems to return to the whole dominant submissive thing.


I find it arousing.
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Re: The Sex Thread

Postby thadivilhimsewf » 25 Aug 2010, 19:47

This thread has been very naughty, talking about filthy things like BDSM. It needs to pull down its pants and lay down in daddy's lap for a firm spanking.
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Re: The Sex Thread

Postby The Jester » 26 Aug 2010, 04:10

Fine, do as you like. Just don't involve me.
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Re: The Sex Thread

Postby madrak_the_red » 26 Aug 2010, 04:34

I find it a bit weird, because I like my girlfriend too much to ever imagine doing anything abusive to her.
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Re: The Sex Thread

Postby Agloriouscuppa » 26 Aug 2010, 05:54

Is it abuse though? If both parties are consenting to the activity. Yeah, its kinky and in most cases has a bit of light pain to go with it. But to me it also shows an immense level of trust to be placed in your partner to know when to stop. You dont have to like it, but you shouldn't mark it as evil if you've never tried it.
It doesnt help does it?
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Re: The Sex Thread

Postby madrak_the_red » 26 Aug 2010, 06:57

Maybe I should have phrased that as: 'couldn't imagine hurting her intentionally'.
I'm just saying I, personally, wouldn't want to try it.
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Re: The Sex Thread

Postby Lyinginbedmon » 26 Aug 2010, 07:19

I'm hesitant to cause pain to any woman (I have a lot of respect for the female gender), and I especially have issues with the idea of deliberately hurting my fiancee.
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Re: The Sex Thread

Postby Emperor Gum » 26 Aug 2010, 07:23

That's because its a kink. It everyone wanted to do it, it wouldn't be a kink.
Theremin wrote:It would be way more accurate to call someone who gets off on being dominated/dominating psychologically abnormal.

Because, y'know, the average person doesn't have those behaviours, and so the people who do are the exception, not the rule.

I'm not sure I like the use of the word abnormal. Are homosexuals abnormal, too? Are people without black hair abnormal? I'd say they normal, just different. Ain't nobody completely average.

EDIT: I got the impression Alja-Makyir is saying that people who like to be dominant or submissive are mentally flawed, but people who just experiment with it are fine. Is that what he;s saying?
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Re: The Sex Thread

Postby The Jester » 26 Aug 2010, 07:29

All the trust in the world can't change the fact that I cannot show love by inflicting pain. Wanting to do so to me breaks my trust.
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Re: The Sex Thread

Postby Master Gunner » 26 Aug 2010, 07:30

People are weird.
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Re: The Sex Thread

Postby evilgenius » 26 Aug 2010, 08:26

I always thought it was kind of sweet that two people could find someone else who they trusted enough to engage in their chosen fetish healthly and comfortably or is that just me?
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Re: The Sex Thread

Postby Master Gunner » 26 Aug 2010, 08:44

I've trained myself to be too much of a cynical bastard to find such things "sweet", instead they are merely arousing and provoke a strong desire for ice cream.
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Re: The Sex Thread

Postby Alja-Markir » 26 Aug 2010, 09:03

Per the notion of being unable to hurt one's partner...

The difference in a healthy relationship with a kink is that while one is saying or doing degrading things, there is no actual harm. It is a fantasy, with boundaries of physical and mental discomfort. Being verbally abusive or inflicting minor pain or discomfort doesn't bother one's partner so long as there is an implicit understanding of boundaries and an established measure of trust.

Furthermore, it is not the "abuse" (which isn't real abuse) that is enticing, but the breaking of taboo. It's exhilarating to talk dirty because you are swearing and saying things you normally can't. It's exhilarating to inflict minor pain or tie someone up for much the same reason. It's a way of carefully tapping into the id, letting loose some of those dark urges that live in the back of the mind. It's exciting because it is not allowed, not because one enjoys the acts themselves.

And there, let me state once more, is the distinction. When people start to enjoy the act itself, and not the breaking of taboo, then I get worried.

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Re: The Sex Thread

Postby I X » 26 Aug 2010, 09:23

I don't think I could hit a girl.


...they're soft.
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Re: The Sex Thread

Postby Master Gunner » 26 Aug 2010, 09:26

It would only be taboo and they'd only gain enjoyment from break societal restraints if they gave any thought or consideration to what society thought. By your logic, as one become inundated to such material and ideas, such as bondage, to the point where it is no longer considered taboo from their point of view, and don't give any consideration to what society thinks, their enjoyment of the act and their desire to do it would decrease. However this is very clearly not the case, and for most people that I've talked to in the bondage and domination scenes breaking from societal standards has very little to do with their decisions or enjoyment, other than in a meta sense. It is the act they enjoy, the trust in their partner, and the sensations brought on by their experiences.

Hell, going from what you've said, I should have never gotten into bondage or domination in the first place, as I didn't even know it was taboo or not "normal" until after I'd enjoyed it (as well as one could at that age) many times (and as a control, I gained greater enjoyment out of bondage porn than regular porn then, as I continue to do today). Those raised in families and communities that openly practice or are openly accepting of such kinks should be even less likely to gain enjoyment from them, but again, that is not the case.
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