so about avatar

[iamafish]

Science Fiction
Fantasy

i would argue that neither of these genres are dependant on voice-over, well written dialogue and an element of mystery can tell the viewer all he or she needs to know without ever resorting to voice over.

Usually the problem of having a universe you need explaining to an audience is to have a lead character be unfamiliar with the world, so he needs it explained to him. Or to have a prologue of some kind, although this is only worthwhile if the exposition only sets the scene, rather than providing information directly relevant to the plot, this it better revealed more organically.

[zfubarz]

it is a fairly fantastic little movie.

[epocalypse]

Science Fiction
Fantasy

i would argue that neither of these genres are dependant on voice-over, well written dialogue and an element of mystery can tell the viewer all he or she needs to know without ever resorting to voice over.

Usually the problem of having a universe you need explaining to an audience is to have a lead character be unfamiliar with the world, so he needs it explained to him. Or to have a prologue of some kind, although this is only worthwhile if the exposition only sets the scene, rather than providing information directly relevant to the plot, this it better revealed more organically.

You're right, a more accurate statement is that they are dependent on exposition, and voice over is often associated with both that and literary or mythic tones (which it can often create through virtue of being very prosaic).

it is a fairly fantastic little movie.

I would say fantastically fair. But to each their own.

[iamafish]

well most films need exposition of some kind, although i agree fantasy and scifi need more by way of exposition.

[SprintToTheFinish]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9bsHAXwaEE

Just thought I would point out that Avatar's plot line is approximately the EXACT SAME as that of every other scifi movie since the 80's. The visual effects were one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen, but I just about lost it when they said "Unobtainium" for the first time. I mean really, that's the best name you can come up with? And it seems like they're obtaining a metric fuck-ton of it every few minutes.
Also, what the hell are they doing with it that makes it so expensive? Or is every one just addicted to it? The Unobtainium must flow.

[MotorWaffle]

Yeah, I kinda cringed when they revealed that they were after "unobtainium".

[Bananafish]

MacGuffinum

[Matt]

oh my god, are we seriously still going on about unobtanium?

Unfortunate a choice as the name may have been, (and really only so if you already knew that it was an engineering term), it's such a minor complaint about the movie as a whole that it hardly bears continuing to dredge up.

-m

[Theremin]

I don't think it's a gripe, so much as a very good example.

[Master Gunner]

If we actually discovered a naturally-existing material with near-magical properties (I haven't actually seen the movie, so I don't know what the alleged properties are), do you really think our scientists and engineers wouldn't call it unobtanium informally, at least until it became common-place?

[Matt]

If we actually discovered a naturally-existing material with near-magical properties (I haven't actually seen the movie, so I don't know what the alleged properties are), do you really think our scientists and engineers wouldn't call it unobtanium informally, at least until it became common-place?

If we actually discovered a naturally-existing material with near-magical properties, that doesn't exist on earth, and has to be mined from a planet that's a 5 year space flight away...

fixed.

And yes, they would. Because they already do call things (specifically, as a short hand for some material that does everything they want but which they can't get becasue it doesn't exist) Unobtainum as an informal shorthand.

It's one of the reasons I facepalm so hard at people bringing it up - the name is actually perfectly reasonable in context.

-m

[MotorWaffle]

I was unaware that we used that as a term.
My bad.

[epocalypse]

If we actually discovered a naturally-existing material with near-magical properties (I haven't actually seen the movie, so I don't know what the alleged properties are), do you really think our scientists and engineers wouldn't call it unobtanium informally, at least until it became common-place?

If we actually discovered a naturally-existing material with near-magical properties, that doesn't exist on earth, and has to be mined from a planet that's a 5 year space flight away...

fixed.

And yes, they would. Because they already do call things (specifically, as a short hand for some material that does everything they want but which they can't get becasue it doesn't exist) Unobtainum as an informal shorthand.

It's one of the reasons I facepalm so hard at people bringing it up - the name is actually perfectly reasonable in context.

-m

Now, you see, and I didn't bring it up, but that is exactly why I didn't like the name, because of its previously existing use. Still, opinions and to each their own, etc.

[empath]

And yes, they would. Because they already do call things (specifically, as a short hand for some material that does everything they want but which they can't get becasue it doesn't exist) Unobtainum as an informal shorthand.

It's one of the reasons I facepalm so hard at people bringing it up - the name is actually perfectly reasonable in context.

-m

Reasonable? A term used to refer to a hypothetical substance that by definition DOES NOT EXIST, being mangled into being stuck on AN EXTANT MATERIAL in the movie, thereby nullifying the term's meaning?

Sure, okay.

Can we get back to the fact that Avatar is more rife with film-cliches than SW: A New Hope?

[SprintToTheFinish]

Hahaha, I didn't honestly see bringing up unobtainium would cause such a huge tangent. I was more concerned about the fact that they couldn't just come up with an original name than that it was called unobtainium. I mean really, they named every plant, animal, and spec of dust in that whole planet, and the one thing they couldn't make up their own name for was the object that caused the entire story. I really don't care that much though, that wasn't that big of a deal. I'll say though, I had expected more from Avatar, If for no other reason than the amount of money they put into it.

And I think they would call it unobtainium at that point, regardless of the fact that it exists, but that's what I think.

[Evil Jim]

"Plot-deviceium"

[Bananafish]

"Plot-deviceium"

MacGuffinum

Heh, *~owned~*

[empath]

Yeah, that was better.


So, how about all those other cliches?

[DRog]

However you put it, unobtanium is a really fucking stupid name. At least just get a team of writers there. Call it cocaine for all I care.

Avatar redone as a movie about the seedy underbelly a city may work with that. They're trying to get the cocaine, cops try to stop them, cop goes in with criminals, criminals don't accept him at first, they gradually do, cop gets them cocaine, everyone is happy.

[Metcarfre]

Is it any worse than ununtrium or the other stupid names for the crazy elements that have only ever existed for mere moments in particle accelerators?

[Master Gunner]

Aren't those just using the Latin and Greek numerical roots to say "element ###" until they can confirm that they've produced it and give it a proper name like "Roentgenium" (previously unununium, for element 111)?

[DRog]

MG, that is in fact that case. I think 112 was recently renamed from ununbium to copernicium.

[Master Gunner]

Sweet, I actually managed to remember something from my three years of chemistry.