Health Care Bill Passes

[Elomin Sha]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8580192.stm

Congratulations America, welcome to the free world.

[Metcarfre]

...But not for much longer, with the recent Supreme Court ruling regarding political contributions.

[Evil Jim]

Senator John McCain, the defeated presidential candidate, warned that outside the capital "the American people are very angry".

"They don't like it, and we're going to repeal this," he told ABC News.

Idiot doesn't know what people want or how they feel about it.

[Mad Madam Mimm]

MAybe it's just 'cos I've grown up with it, but I really don't get why people would see this as a bad thing. It's just like waitresses pooling tips, everyone pays in what they can and takes out when someone needs it. It's proof that there's still some sense of humanity or care for fellow human beings, surely?

[Joshua]

I am very pleased about this. I told my co-workers I was hoping it passed and generally well adjusted people where sending me murder vibes, I was scared.

[goat]

MAybe it's just 'cos I've grown up with it, but I really don't get why people would see this as a bad thing. It's just like waitresses pooling tips, everyone pays in what they can and takes out when someone needs it. It's proof that there's still some sense of humanity or care for fellow human beings, surely?

It has to do with the incredibly good job that the opposition has done in inciting mindless contrarion thought. If you'd like a laugh, go and watch some of the clips pulled from fox news on youtube, propaganda at its finest.

[gcninja]

but what you didnt see

The Senate bill is primed to become law once President Obama signs it, but the Senate must still pass the reconciliation bill that will alter the main bill in order for Democrats' work on health care to be over. Among other things, the bill would strip the Senate bill of politically-toxic provisions like the so-called "Cornhusker Kickback."

it still has to get passed by senate and will be modified
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162- ... 03544.html

[2stepz]

"We're [going to be] gifted with a health care plan written by a committee whose chairman says he doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress that exempts themselves from it, to be signed by a president who smokes, administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes, to be overseen by a surgeon general who is obese......, and financed by a country that's broke." . . . Julia Ash Newton.

[epocalypse]

The dams are broken. Now, in a few years, we might actually have the law for a complete and real health care reform. Waiting while fear mongering and idiocy strived was not an option. Now, hopefully, I won't have to explain to my portuguese family and european friends why my other country are freaking morons.

[Theremin]

From a historical point of view, it's kind of fascinating to see how old cultural attitudes are getting dragged up for use against this.

And when I was 12, and learned that America didn't have an NHS-style healthcare system, my initial reaction was "Why...wouldn't you have that?"

[epocalypse]

And when I was 12, and learned that America didn't have an NHS-style healthcare system, my initial reaction was "Why...wouldn't you have that?"

this is still, to this day, my reaction. to my own country.

[Theremin]

And that's why I'm never living there.

[Matt]

From a historical point of view, it's kind of fascinating to see how old cultural attitudes are getting dragged up for use against this.

And when I was 12, and learned that America didn't have an NHS-style healthcare system, my initial reaction was "Why...wouldn't you have that?"

That's pretty much the reaction of every person from a westernized nation other than the US. WHich makes it all the more depressing when the wingnuts wave our healthcare systems around as if they were the ultimate evil in debate.

a republican senator says "you don't want our health care to end up like Canada's, do you!?" and I think, "... If you don't, you should."

-m

[epocalypse]

Like I said, as a dual citizen, my european brethren look at the health care debate and say to me, WTF, and I'm all like I know exactly how you feel, our land be the dumb in this category of thought.

[Theremin]

That kind of bull-headedness is probably tied to the whole 'chosen nation' mentality that gets spread in the US.

[epocalypse]

That kind of bull-headedness is probably tied to the whole 'chosen nation' mentality that gets spread in the US.

Yes, friends, for "Pride Comes Before the Fall" is an unamerican expression.
...Some times, this country, I mean, why. why be so stupid?

[theashigaru]

"We're [going to be] gifted with a health care plan written by a committee whose chairman says he doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress that exempts themselves from it, to be signed by a president who smokes, administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes, to be overseen by a surgeon general who is obese......, and financed by a country that's broke." . . . Julia Ash Newton.

^this^

Something that really bothers me about this bill (and the last one put forth) was the fact that no one even has time to read it before they vote on it. 1200 pages to be read, comprehended, and debated in what? THREE DAYS! If its what America wants and needs, they shouldn't have to shove it through the political system with a ram-rod.

I realize that the topic has been debated in the capitol for more than a year now, but considering this is going to be national law, I don't see what the big deal would be with giving everyone a month to actually read the thing properly.

[GreigKM]

It's good we finally got a start, even if within 24 hours Limbaugh has called for the execution of the representatives that passed this. Now we are seeing the reaction of the ignorant, but very loud, minority descending on the capital, and I really do fear for the lives of the democratic senators and representatives, that's how messed up America is. Land of the Ignorant.

[Matt]

"We're [going to be] gifted with a health care plan written by a committee whose chairman says he doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress that exempts themselves from it, to be signed by a president who smokes, administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes, to be overseen by a surgeon general who is obese......, and financed by a country that's broke." . . . Julia Ash Newton.

^this^

Something that really bothers me about this bill (and the last one put forth) was the fact that no one even has time to read it before they vote on it. 1200 pages to be read, comprehended, and debated in what? THREE DAYS! If its what America wants and needs, they shouldn't have to shove it through the political system with a ram-rod.

I realize that the topic has been debated in the capitol for more than a year now, but considering this is going to be national law, I don't see what the big deal would be with giving everyone a month to actually read the thing properly.

Fact of the matter is, the vote was mostly along party lines anyhow. It's not like it got voted on by merit.

The Repubs. dicked the Democrats around on it for a year, and then unanimously voted against it, despite it's being basically a republican healthcare reform bill. It certainly exposed the fact that republicans are absolutely unwilling to work with the dems on anything, and makes me feel even more strongly that the democrats should have hammered through the bill they wanted, rather than try to bring the GOP on board. (not that they could have considering there were 34 dems that voted against it as well, though my hope is that they were objecting to the bill as written, not voting with the republican party).

It's a weak bill, but it's not a bad bill. It just doesn't go nearly far enough to control insurance pricing. There are a number of elements in the ill that will neccessarily drive the cost of insurance up, but aside from the promise of subsidy for families making less than $88,000 a year, and extension of mandates on employer-provided insurance, there's little in the bill to actually address the underlying causes of the skyrocketing cost of insurance.

-m

[goat]

From a historical point of view, it's kind of fascinating to see how old cultural attitudes are getting dragged up for use against this.

And when I was 12, and learned that America didn't have an NHS-style healthcare system, my initial reaction was "Why...wouldn't you have that?"

That's pretty much the reaction of every person from a westernized nation other than the US. WHich makes it all the more depressing when the wingnuts wave our healthcare systems around as if they were the ultimate evil in debate.

a republican senator says "you don't want our health care to end up like Canada's, do you!?" and I think, "... If you don't, you should."

-m

Blame Reagan for that one. The last time this was seriously talked about that administration quashed it by dragging out a few very specific and unique cases of supposed malfeasance.

And again: *sigh*

I understand that it was important to push this through because of momentum and before the fall elections and about a hundred other reasons, but I've gotta side with the people who wanted more time. It has become more about he politics than about creating meaningful legislation. Again, I site my desire to move to Canada, I like you guys, you have some of the same problems, but you're not unreasonably stupid like we are.

[epocalypse]

The entire problem with the democratic legislature is its notion of passing "Perfect Bills" and how this is exploited by its opposition. The fact that this was passed is the best possible thing for US health care reform (and, in my opinion, liberal legislature over the next few years) in the US because it ends that impotence. Smaller pieces of needed reform will be easier to pass, and corrections and modifications to the big bill will be easier to enact in pieces. An active congress, regardless of slant, is not as unpopular as a useless one.

As far as I'm concerned, if this can just help the US not be the developed nation with the highest infant mortality rate, it will be a good thing.

[Lyinginbedmon]

I'm happy to admit there are problems with the NHS, like staff pay and hospital conditions and waiting times and quality of care. But at the end of the day, I'm happy to have it rather than the alternative of no healthcare at all or of the US health system. I especially don't think it's morally or ethically right for someone to get life-saving treatment and then be presented with a mammoth bill for it. That just isn't right.

Every country needs universal healthcare, that's just the only model that works, in my opinion.

[Angnor]

That's pretty much the reaction of every person from a westernized nation other than the US. WHich makes it all the more depressing when the wingnuts wave our healthcare systems around as if they were the ultimate evil in debate.

a republican senator says "you don't want our health care to end up like Canada's, do you!?" and I think, "... If you don't, you should."

-m

I was actually curious about this. I'm fairly neutral on our current bill myself, as I don't know enough about it. My general fears are that you're dealing with two entities (Government and Insurance Companies) both of which have the goal of screwing over those they claim as customers/constituents. And I do despise the fact that congress has exempted itself from it (if true, I've heard conflicting reports). That's inexcusable.

Back to my point. What are your experiences with NHSs? I've heard mixed results across the board, but almost all of the relatively few people I know in the UK and Canada hate the NHS there.

[Theremin]

I think you mean the only model that's halfway fair.

[Matt]

That's pretty much the reaction of every person from a westernized nation other than the US. WHich makes it all the more depressing when the wingnuts wave our healthcare systems around as if they were the ultimate evil in debate.

a republican senator says "you don't want our health care to end up like Canada's, do you!?" and I think, "... If you don't, you should."

-m

I was actually curious about this. I'm fairly neutral on our current bill myself, as I don't know enough about it. My general fears are that you're dealing with two entities (Government and Insurance Companies) both of which have the goal of screwing over those they claim as customers/constituents. And I do despise the fact that congress has exempted itself from it (if true, I've heard conflicting reports). That's inexcusable.

Back to my point. What are your experiences with NHSs? I've heard mixed results across the board, but almost all of the relatively few people I know in the UK and Canada hate the NHS there.

Do you? Are you sure they hate the system, or do they just have a few gripes about it? Fact of the matter is, that while our heath care systems are a common thing for Canadians and Brits to complain about, on the whole, the populations of both countries are resolutely unwilling to go without them, and find the idea of moving to a systyem modeled on the american private insurance system absolutely fucking repugnant.

The system in Canada and in the UK has it's issues - but those issues are minor. And while we like to gripe about the various shortcomings and inefficiences of our systems, we are terrified of what life would be like without them.

We love our health care. A lot. In a nationwide survey, Canada voted Tommy Douglas, the father of our universal healthcare system 'The greatest Canadian of All-Time'.

So don't mistake some complaints with hatred, because if there is one thing, one single service, you'd have to pry from our public's cold dead hands, it's UHC.

edit: honestly, the only canadian I can imagine who might "hate" our system, is someone who's never had to use it.

-m