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Graham
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Re: ...What.

Postby Graham » 13 Apr 2010, 13:24

@Machalllewis
I have no idea really. I know as far as LRR is concerned, Loading Time and On The Run and any other little bonus content stuff will stay here.
I don't know what bonus content there would be for Unskippable or ENN, but (being as those are Escapist's series) those would be part of this I suppose. Keep in mind, there hasn't been any bonus content for those series so far.
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Re: ...What.

Postby Machalllewis » 13 Apr 2010, 13:29

Fair play. Just wondering if you guys knew much about it.
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Re: ...What.

Postby Angnor » 13 Apr 2010, 13:29

Graham wrote:@Machalllewis
I have no idea really. I know as far as LRR is concerned, Loading Time and On The Run and any other little bonus content stuff will stay here.
I don't know what bonus content there would be for Unskippable or ENN, but (being as those are Escapist's series) those would be part of this I suppose. Keep in mind, there hasn't been any bonus content for those series so far.


My first thought here was the 'Rejected ENN' blog posts...
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Re: ...What.

Postby I X » 13 Apr 2010, 13:34

I'm meh. They can do what they like as long as they don't close off LRR. And if they do, I'd be annoyed but in truth I could easily justify $20 a YEAR for Yahtzee and LRR alone. <shrug> I want to make money using the internet someday. You know? Can't be objecting to it, really.
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Re: ...What.

Postby empath » 13 Apr 2010, 13:38

...wait, LRR videos hosted by escapistmagazine.com sucks?

When has their site gone down and left people unable to see a new video (or the crew to upload a video) for days?

Admittedly YT hosted Our Favourite Troupe's vids competently - at least I don't remember any big crashes or phails then - but y'all weren't around here when LRR had their videos hosted on REVVER, or blip.tv, were you?

It was, to be honest, iffy. You'd fire up your bookmark on Monday and hope that the host's servers hadn't died because of the increased load of people trying to view the vid (and as much as I love them, no, LRR doesn't have THAT big of a fanbase ;) ).

Compared to that, vive la Blue Monday. I *LIKE* how the Escapist has delivered my weekly dose of West Coast comedy. Reliably.

But pay them for extra stuff I don't want? *shrug* Nah, I'm fine, thanks.

...unless they decide to try something like throttle their bandwidth and limit the number of non-paying viewers that can access the videos at once, I've got absolutely no issue or problem with this.


* And as for HD? I know I've still got better than 20/20 vision as I enter middle age, but I really don't CARE about higher resolution than what I get now. I remember getting into a tizzy with Matt over the 'unacceptability' of VHS-quality recording; I find it FINE.

All 'hi-def' resolution videos mean to me is that they're gonna take longer to load! :P So that's another thing they offer that I don't want. *shrug*


* RSS? Sorry but I can never be bothered going though the prep and effort when I can just hit Bookmarks and check for myself; free or paid it's irrelevant to me.


* Super-secret stuff only available to members?

...

Yeah, I couldn't even be bothered jumping through the flimsy easy-as-hell hoops to become a Runner, so this is more water sliding right off this duck's back.


* A custom forum title for a community that I just don't have the time to get involved in, anyway?

...do I even need to keep answering these questions? ;)
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Re: ...What.

Postby MattAn » 13 Apr 2010, 14:26

..../sigh..

Ugh.. As it almost pains me to say it and while I'm STILL thoroughly against blatantly paying for content for a website when it's in no way a donation. It's a subscription. Donation with minor benefits, fine.. But a full-fledged subscription just doesn't sound right.. Anywhere.

Anyway.. As much as it bothers me immensely.. I shall consider it.. As long as LRR's Behind-The-Scenes stuff is still staying on their site (ENN Rejected Stories included) and isn't being dragged over with the rest, fine. Hell, I only watch the occasional Zero Punctuation, weekly LRR/ENN/Unskippable.. And Good Knight's Quest. Some news articles and/or e-mail articles are ok..

Look, as I said, I'll think it over more. I do need what little money I get a fortnight for several other things I've been planning on buying though. This just wasn't timed right. Some warning would've been brilliant.
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Re: ...What.

Postby Bananafish » 13 Apr 2010, 14:37

"You make it sound like the internet isn't a gigantic cesspool of garbage outside of anything like LoadingReadyRun."

lol.
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Re: ...What.

Postby Graham » 13 Apr 2010, 14:42

Hileict, you're acting like you're being forced to buy it. If it's not for you, don't.
I wouldn't.
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Re: ...What.

Postby MattAn » 13 Apr 2010, 14:46

Bananafish wrote:"You make it sound like the internet isn't a gigantic cesspool of garbage outside of anything like LoadingReadyRun."

lol.


However, isn't it? It's been A LONG FREAKING TIME since I've ever seen a community like LRR's. The cast actually respond to their fans for one thing. RoosterTeeth doesn't. Most gaming podcasts have some small select group.. That's also why I despise paid secret group memberships.. If I DO get The Escapist thing, it's for LRR. I kinda gave up on Yahtzee a while ago when his videos turned from actual entertainment, yet truthful commentary to just not caring and being a total wankstain. Friends and I didn't approve. However, LRR's gotten the approval of a very apathetic friend of mine. He doesn't like a lot of the shit around the interbutts, but he's liked LRR.
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Re: ...What.

Postby goat » 13 Apr 2010, 14:47

King Kool wrote:Not to derail, but is this the big announcement Matt was hinting at yesterday?


I believe the announcement was actually LRR going to WOOTstock (see twitter feed).

Oh, uh... and I still don't give a shit about the Escapist thing *pokes the bear and then runs away*
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Re: ...What.

Postby Jer » 13 Apr 2010, 14:47

Just to quickly sound off, here's what's going through my head:

1- Things cost money
YouTube--which is run at a loss, on the back of Google fiber purchased outside the scope of its budget--has horrendously devalued streamed video on the internet. As far as most users are concerned, it's free. Ask most folks what a cell phone costs, and they'll tell you between $0 and $300 because the $50 - $900 charged by the OEMs is absorbed by the service providers. HQ video is expensive enough that LoadingReadyRun could not afford to implement it. We have, in the past, outsourced this to other providers, who have absorbed the cost at their peril.

2- The Escapist Pays Us Well
The Escapist is run on a more traditional model than most gaming sites. They have copy editors, and QA staff, and they pay their content providers a decent wage. I say this as someone who has worked out the cost per man-hour of our shows and determined that we are compensated appropriately for the amount of work we do. This is not the norm for the internet. We could not afford to put out the amount of content we presently do if we were not being compensated fairly for our time. Period.

3- Ad Revenue Can Be Tricky
Look at the number of game studios that have closed their doors in the last two years. That's publishers trying to cut costs by producing fewer games. Man-hours aren't the only costs they're cutting though--for each game that's cancelled, another marketing budget doesn't materialize, shrinking an ad pie that's already serving a tonne of different sites. Didn't IGN just fire half their staff like a month ago? Didn't 1Up lose 90% of it's staff the year before that? In light of this, I find it very hard to blame The Escapist for passing down the cost of features that will not generate increased ad revenue to the folks that will use them.

In summation:
I appreciate the fact that some of you feel this is The Escapist bilking you for money, and that you would prefer to support us more directly; however, as it stands, our contracts with The Escapist promise us fair compensation for what we do, and The Escapist having more numerous and stable revenue streams only gives us more stability and potential for growth.
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Re: ...What.

Postby MattAn » 13 Apr 2010, 14:58

For the record, it's getting rather weird when Graham or myself end up posting before or after each other, because there ends up being three Graham's. Eating a muffin, mushing a bag and being short with nerf darts! I mean.. I know the true Graham, but he's everywhere O:

And Graham, yes, I know.. I'm just really not sure anymore. I've gone from vastly against the entire idea, if only for the cheap gimmicks it comes with (usertitle, minor features that could be implemented freely), but on the other hand, if you don't buy it, you end up missing out on content that changes the entire setup of the site (high quality videos, extra forum I doubt I'd ever use, considering my apparent hatred of the overall community there, focus groups which were apparently free already but they never used.. And the titles were given from contests.. Yay?)
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Re: ...What.

Postby Matt » 13 Apr 2010, 15:18

Jer wrote:In summation:
I appreciate the fact that some of you feel this is The Escapist bilking you for money, and that you would prefer to support us more directly; however, as it stands, our contracts with The Escapist promise us fair compensation for what we do, and The Escapist having more numerous and stable revenue streams only gives us more stability and potential for growth.


This touches on a point that I wanted to make, but haven't had a chance to yet.

We appreciate that you want to donate some money to us, and we really appreciate that you like our merchandise enough to purchase it. We're very grateful for the devotion and desire to contribute that our fans share.

Unfortunately for our finances though, there aren't enough of you that a merch or donation based business model can support us. We are an abnormally large group of content creators, and in order for the lot of us to collect anything resembing a sustainable, livable wage from merch or donations would require an order of magnitude more fans making those donations and purchases.

The Escapist provides us a revenue stream that is secure, reasonably stable, and significantly larger than we could hope to generate on our own. The single most effective way that any person can ensure that the LRR crew manages to collect a paycheque for the content we create is to provide financial support to the escapist. No, we do not see all of that money, (at least not directly), but that money goes towards supporting the website that has introduced our content to an audience several times larger than we had, and which is providing us funding on a scale we've never seen on our own. Every dollar The Escapist makes plays a very real part in sustaining our livlihood as content creators.

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Re: ...What.

Postby King Kool » 13 Apr 2010, 15:29

Since I don't go to the boards on Escapist that much, I'm probably not going to sign up for this.

And that's just fine.

I felt I should emphasize this.
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Re: ...What.

Postby Matt » 13 Apr 2010, 15:34

King Kool wrote:Since I don't go to the boards on Escapist that much, I'm probably not going to sign up for this.

And that's just fine.

I felt I should emphasize this.


Yes, it is.

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Re: ...What.

Postby MattAn » 13 Apr 2010, 15:38

My concern was that a lot of the bonus features related to Unskippable and ENN won't be covered here.. Really, that's what was my main concern.

..And after all that, I paid the damn $10. Turns out it was $10.78 Australian Dollars anyway, so.. Um.. Yay?
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Re: ...What.

Postby goat » 13 Apr 2010, 15:47

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Re: ...What.

Postby MattAn » 13 Apr 2010, 15:57

What's so /facepalm about it?

I want my money going towards LRR. If the only way to do that really is by putting it to The Escapist, I STILL want my money going towards LRR. The subsequent $20 and such (if I continue with it there), should be too. Yahtzee's quality has dwindled a bit, Good Knight's Quest are already popular actors and actresses, I Hit It With My Axe doesn't deserve anything, Doomsday Arcade is... Australian? I dunno, I never really watched it much. Mainly the Graham/Paul episode.

Also, who do I ask about a username change? O:
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Re: ...What.

Postby Jer » 13 Apr 2010, 15:59

There's no easy answer for things like Rejected ENN. On one hand, nobody has contacted us about moving it to the Escapist, but it could happen: it's their brand we're leveraging. On the other hand, that would likely involve us getting paid for work that we're largely already doing, and we'd probably replace it with something else. In the short term, don't worry about it: we'll be as upfront as possible about any changes, but I anticipate that there probably wont be any.
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Re: ...What.

Postby MattAn » 13 Apr 2010, 16:08

Holy shit-jeebus, ENN looks sexy o.o Sadly, the "trailer" for this paid thing doesn't actually do any of it justice. Loads rather quickly for me too.

I'm still cautious, but eh, I'm in now, so I have HD? o.O I guess that's a trade-off?
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Re: ...What.

Postby far_wanderer » 13 Apr 2010, 16:09

PROGRAM_IX wrote:I'm meh. They can do what they like as long as they don't close off LRR. And if they do, I'd be annoyed but in truth I could easily justify $20 a YEAR for Yahtzee and LRR alone. <shrug> I want to make money using the internet someday. You know? Can't be objecting to it, really.

Yep, that's about my opinion too. None of the bonus features interest me in any way*, and that full content RSS feed thingy may actually be a negative for me, given the number of Escapist stories I scroll past currently.
I plan to subscribe for the sole reason that a content provider I enjoy has given me the option of paying them directly (at a price I consider quite fair) through a subscription rather than paying them vicariously through ads. This is almost** my ideal business model - people who don't want to pay still have access to all the main content for free, and people who like it enough to pay get token rewards.
*High Quality Video Streams: Don't really care all that much, unless it means the Escapist watermark goes away.
Video podcasts: I can already download the videos, but I guess having an official okay to do it nice.
Full-content RSS feeds: As stated above, probably a negative as it means more text to scroll past when I don't want to read something.
Exclusive member content: Will only really interest me of Shamus Young does something.
A custom title of your choice: Eh.
Early access to upcoming site features: Don't care.
Automatic contest entries: I never win anything anyway.
Exclusive member forum access: Only interesting if it is of significantly higher quality than the other Escapist forums.
Audience panel membership: Could potentially be cool but probably not.
**(I'd still make the bonus content free if I was in charge, and I probably wouldn't set a specific price)
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For some reason, I get the feeling that premium members get it uncensored. Van, can you check?

Did anyone learn for sure why they did this? Is it only on LRR? Zero Punctuation certainly isn't censored.

From what I remember of a similar issue back with the final episode of TWBB, the Escapist has a blanket policy of censoring offensive language. Quite a few shows have exceptions from that rule, but the default is still bleeping. Occasionally someone who is not "in the know" gets the job of uploading the video and forgets to check the exception list (or doesn't realize there is one).
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Re: ...What.

Postby Master Gunner » 13 Apr 2010, 16:24

Just remembered I have the number to one of my brother's credit cards. So if he's paying, I'll give it a shot.
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Re: ...What.

Postby Elomin Sha » 13 Apr 2010, 16:28

You're evil Gunner, go for it.
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Re: ...What.

Postby Lord Chrusher » 13 Apr 2010, 16:37

I am on the Escapist a bit outside of LRR stuff so I am willing to try it for a year - ten dollars is not a lot of money.
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Re: ...What.

Postby Graham » 13 Apr 2010, 16:42

Hileict wrote:Holy shit-jeebus, ENN looks sexy o.o

Doesn't it?!?!
I was impressed.

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