THe Hobbit - Del Toro No Longer Director

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THe Hobbit - Del Toro No Longer Director

Postby Elomin Sha » 31 May 2010, 02:31

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Re: THe Hobbit - Del Toro No Longer Director

Postby ThrashJazzAssassin » 31 May 2010, 03:53

FUCK YEAH!

Best news I've read all week.

Aw, but he's still co-writing them.... :(
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Re: THe Hobbit - Del Toro No Longer Director

Postby The Jester » 31 May 2010, 04:36

To be honest, after what he did to Hellboy, and given that I personally am a little tired of his super gnarly, twisted, dark design style (rather like I'm tired of Tim Burton's) I don't see this as a problem. Let's just hope they get a better director instead of a worse one. :P
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Re: THe Hobbit - Del Toro No Longer Director

Postby Telaril » 31 May 2010, 04:59

When you say "after what he did to Hellboy" are you talking about the first movie, the second, or both?

I thought the first movie was pretty all right (about as good as a commercial Hellboy movie could be expected to be), but the second one was awful.

The second movie showed me that he couldn't be trusted with character or dialogue in modern settings. It was pretty enough in places, but incredibly heavy-handed in its emotional beats and acting decisions.
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Re: THe Hobbit - Del Toro No Longer Director

Postby The Jester » 31 May 2010, 05:03

Yeah, that's kinda what I meant. I still have issues with the characteriseation in Hellboy 1, but my biggest problems are with 2. Hellboy is not, and never should have been shown as, a juvenile responsibility-dodger. About the best thing I could say about the second film is that it was pretty. :P

It had some cool ideas, but even the monsters weren't monsterous enough. Mignola's monsters really look rugged and dangerous. The ones in Golden Army just looked like action figures.
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Re: THe Hobbit - Del Toro No Longer Director

Postby Telaril » 31 May 2010, 05:41

Mignola is a frakking GENIUS. Man they should give him a "hey, help me direct this" deal like they gave Frank Miller, who TOTALLY didn't deserve it. Did you see that classic Batman cover he redrew for DC's anniversary?

Ahem, back on topic. Man, I thought I was the only person who enjoyed the first Hellboy but felt betrayed and disappointed by Hellboy II. The character problems weren't just divergences from the comic, they were massive inconsistencies from the first film to the second. I'm still full of ire, two years later.

I liked Pan's Labyrinth. I actually saw Mimic, and for a weird-ass sci-fi horror movie about bugs it was pretty all right. I think Del Toro's very good at a sort of psychological, fantastic horror, but the Hellboy films seem to demonstrate the inherent danger in imposing Del Toro's style on another creator's characters and world.

I feel somewhat similarly about Tim Burton. I love Beetlejuice, The Corpse Bride, and Big Fish, but Charlie and the Chocolate Factory filled me with rage. I think both directors have such strong personal aesthetics that it's very easy for them to lose sight of the important aspects of the properties they're trying to interpret. If these stories are already familiar or beloved there's a great risk of seriously disappointing fans.
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Re: THe Hobbit - Del Toro No Longer Director

Postby sdhonda » 31 May 2010, 05:45

So now he'll be able to work on adapting Drood.

Yippee!
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Re: THe Hobbit - Del Toro No Longer Director

Postby GHOVO » 31 May 2010, 06:42

I think people should stop worrying about the fact he's off, and start worrying about who they will bring on to replace him. These are big shoes to fill in terms of who is involved, who could be involved, and the sheer number of fans and level of fandom. Del Toro had a name about him and so that filled people with some comfort. But what big name director could they bring on? I mean there's no way this is going to Alan Smithee..
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Re: THe Hobbit - Del Toro No Longer Director

Postby Elomin Sha » 31 May 2010, 06:48

Maybe Jackson will have some change of mind and direct the film.

OR

LRR go down and direct the film then hijack the entire thing into a Warrior's of Darkness film.
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Re: THe Hobbit - Del Toro No Longer Director

Postby GHOVO » 31 May 2010, 06:57

I don't think the studio would let Jackson direct it. Did you see The Lovely Bones? Sheesh

And if they do then they are making a mistake. Jackson seems to be a bit full of himself now.
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Re: THe Hobbit - Del Toro No Longer Director

Postby RobertMc123 » 31 May 2010, 07:39

Expect this film to be cancelled in the next few months. It's been too fraught with problems recently that I think it will just be scrapped.
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Re: THe Hobbit - Del Toro No Longer Director

Postby aeric90 » 31 May 2010, 07:43

Yeah, I don't think it's going to happen either. The time for this has passed. If it ever does get off the ground, Ian McKellen is going to be too old :P
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Re: THe Hobbit - Del Toro No Longer Director

Postby EnglishMQ » 31 May 2010, 08:52

Wait, some people DON'T think Del Toro is a genius?

Well actually that's harsh, I have never read the Hellboy comics, and Del Toro has specifically said that the Movie is a totally different universe to the comics, so I take the movie on its own merits, and it was a very fun, very beaitiful and weird beauty and the beast story.

Anyway, Hobbit seemed to be going that way for a while, but I don't think it'll be hard for them to find another director, or for Del Toro to get new work. Hellboy 3? HP Lovecraft adaptation? Frankenstein?
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Re: THe Hobbit - Del Toro No Longer Director

Postby Telaril » 31 May 2010, 09:00

EnglishMQ wrote:Wait, some people DON'T think Del Toro is a genius?

Well actually that's harsh, I have never read the Hellboy comics, and Del Toro has specifically said that the Movie is a totally different universe to the comics, so I take the movie on its own merits, and it was a very fun, very beaitiful and weird beauty and the beast story.

Anyway, Hobbit seemed to be going that way for a while, but I don't think it'll be hard for them to find another director, or for Del Toro to get new work. Hellboy 3? HP Lovecraft adaptation? Frankenstein?


Did you not find any disparity between the first and second Hellboy movies? I'm genuinely curious, since in your post you said movie not movies. Several of my friends unfamiliar with the comics loved the first of the two movies but disliked the second.
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Re: THe Hobbit - Del Toro No Longer Director

Postby EnglishMQ » 31 May 2010, 09:15

Telaril wrote:
EnglishMQ wrote:Wait, some people DON'T think Del Toro is a genius?

Well actually that's harsh, I have never read the Hellboy comics, and Del Toro has specifically said that the Movie is a totally different universe to the comics, so I take the movie on its own merits, and it was a very fun, very beaitiful and weird beauty and the beast story.

Anyway, Hobbit seemed to be going that way for a while, but I don't think it'll be hard for them to find another director, or for Del Toro to get new work. Hellboy 3? HP Lovecraft adaptation? Frankenstein?


Did you not find any disparity between the first and second Hellboy movies? I'm genuinely curious, since in your post you said movie not movies. Several of my friends unfamiliar with the comics loved the first of the two movies but disliked the second.


I've watched both, and yes, the second one is very different to the first one, it's much more fairy tale based, and has a much lighter tone, and if anything I prefer the second one as it has much more of a story structure and more focus on the titular character rather than the first one which has a tendancy to lack focus.

I kind of accept the differences as this never felt to me to be a very continuity based movie series, and with a change in production companies and a four year gap in which Del Toro did Pan's Labrynth I just accepted the tonal change.
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Re: THe Hobbit - Del Toro No Longer Director

Postby Telaril » 31 May 2010, 09:32

I wasn't bothered so much by the tonal change as by the change in the character's personalities. I'm fine with a fairy tale tone and a more traditional story structure, but I felt the characterization was much broader and weaker in the second.

I feel like something can be a more light-hearted departure without turning the characters into buffoons, but I the second movie sort of did that. It was actually a friend of mine who doesn't read the comics who first brought it up... she had been totally obsessed with Abe Sapien from the first movie and absolutely abhorred his character in the second. The story and setting were fine but the dialogue had my eyes rolling clear out of my head.

Maybe I'm just a nitpicker though. Sorry, it's just that the rant leaks through, even after all this time.
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Re: THe Hobbit - Del Toro No Longer Director

Postby Elomin Sha » 31 May 2010, 09:32

I liked Hellboy 1 more but I did like Hellboy 2 for the creature designs.
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Re: THe Hobbit - Del Toro No Longer Director

Postby The Jester » 31 May 2010, 09:57

Telaril wrote:I wasn't bothered so much by the tonal change as by the change in the character's personalities. I'm fine with a fairy tale tone and a more traditional story structure, but I felt the characterization was much broader and weaker in the second.

I feel like something can be a more light-hearted departure without turning the characters into buffoons, but I the second movie sort of did that. It was actually a friend of mine who doesn't read the comics who first brought it up... she had been totally obsessed with Abe Sapien from the first movie and absolutely abhorred his character in the second. The story and setting were fine but the dialogue had my eyes rolling clear out of my head.

Maybe I'm just a nitpicker though. Sorry, it's just that the rant leaks through, even after all this time.


Well I guess that makes two of us. ;)

Telaril wrote:Mignola is a frakking GENIUS. Man they should give him a "hey, help me direct this" deal like they gave Frank Miller, who TOTALLY didn't deserve it. Did you see that classic Batman cover he redrew for DC's anniversary?

Ahem, back on topic. Man, I thought I was the only person who enjoyed the first Hellboy but felt betrayed and disappointed by Hellboy II. The character problems weren't just divergences from the comic, they were massive inconsistencies from the first film to the second. I'm still full of ire, two years later.

I liked Pan's Labyrinth. I actually saw Mimic, and for a weird-ass sci-fi horror movie about bugs it was pretty all right. I think Del Toro's very good at a sort of psychological, fantastic horror, but the Hellboy films seem to demonstrate the inherent danger in imposing Del Toro's style on another creator's characters and world.

I feel somewhat similarly about Tim Burton. I love Beetlejuice, The Corpse Bride, and Big Fish, but Charlie and the Chocolate Factory filled me with rage. I think both directors have such strong personal aesthetics that it's very easy for them to lose sight of the important aspects of the properties they're trying to interpret. If these stories are already familiar or beloved there's a great risk of seriously disappointing fans.


Sorry, the discussion had moved on by the time I came back, but thank you for sharing those links! No, I hadn't seen the re-draw, but I agree that it was excellent. :D I also agree on Mignola genius. ;)

I did enjoy Beetlejuice and Big Fish, but I felt that Corpse Bride was unfinished and pretty much just an attempt to recreate the success of Nightmare Before Christmas. I also had a problem with the way the titular character tricked that poor dude into marrying her. That kind of trick allways pisses me off, and I feel like she should have recieved a much harsher karmic punishment, despite what had happened to her. If something like that happened to me it would freaking enrage me, but that's probably just me. :P

I'll allways prefer the 70's Charlie, mostly for it's Gene Wilder Wonker, but I do agree that it was a bit too subsumed by Burton's ... uniquness. :P


Anyway... have a nice day! :)
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Re: THe Hobbit - Del Toro No Longer Director

Postby ThrashJazzAssassin » 31 May 2010, 12:54

EnglishMQ wrote:Anyway, Hobbit seemed to be going that way for a while, but I don't think it'll be hard for them to find another director, or for Del Toro to get new work.

Del Toro has turned down The Hobbit because he's too busy with other work, so you're right there.
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Re: THe Hobbit - Del Toro No Longer Director

Postby Jillers » 31 May 2010, 13:20

The Jester wrote:
Telaril wrote:I wasn't bothered so much by the tonal change as by the change in the character's personalities. I'm fine with a fairy tale tone and a more traditional story structure, but I felt the characterization was much broader and weaker in the second.

I feel like something can be a more light-hearted departure without turning the characters into buffoons, but I the second movie sort of did that. It was actually a friend of mine who doesn't read the comics who first brought it up... she had been totally obsessed with Abe Sapien from the first movie and absolutely abhorred his character in the second. The story and setting were fine but the dialogue had my eyes rolling clear out of my head.

Maybe I'm just a nitpicker though. Sorry, it's just that the rant leaks through, even after all this time.


Well I guess that makes two of us. ;)

Telaril wrote:Mignola is a frakking GENIUS. Man they should give him a "hey, help me direct this" deal like they gave Frank Miller, who TOTALLY didn't deserve it. Did you see that classic Batman cover he redrew for DC's anniversary?

Ahem, back on topic. Man, I thought I was the only person who enjoyed the first Hellboy but felt betrayed and disappointed by Hellboy II. The character problems weren't just divergences from the comic, they were massive inconsistencies from the first film to the second. I'm still full of ire, two years later.

I liked Pan's Labyrinth. I actually saw Mimic, and for a weird-ass sci-fi horror movie about bugs it was pretty all right. I think Del Toro's very good at a sort of psychological, fantastic horror, but the Hellboy films seem to demonstrate the inherent danger in imposing Del Toro's style on another creator's characters and world.

I feel somewhat similarly about Tim Burton. I love Beetlejuice, The Corpse Bride, and Big Fish, but Charlie and the Chocolate Factory filled me with rage. I think both directors have such strong personal aesthetics that it's very easy for them to lose sight of the important aspects of the properties they're trying to interpret. If these stories are already familiar or beloved there's a great risk of seriously disappointing fans.


Sorry, the discussion had moved on by the time I came back, but thank you for sharing those links! No, I hadn't seen the re-draw, but I agree that it was excellent. :D I also agree on Mignola genius. ;)

I did enjoy Beetlejuice and Big Fish, but I felt that Corpse Bride was unfinished and pretty much just an attempt to recreate the success of Nightmare Before Christmas. I also had a problem with the way the titular character tricked that poor dude into marrying her. That kind of trick allways pisses me off, and I feel like she should have recieved a much harsher karmic punishment, despite what had happened to her. If something like that happened to me it would freaking enrage me, but that's probably just me. :P

I'll allways prefer the 70's Charlie, mostly for it's Gene Wilder Wonker, but I do agree that it was a bit too subsumed by Burton's ... uniquness. :P


Anyway... have a nice day! :)


Woah woah woah, she didn't trick him at all, it was an accident!
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Re: THe Hobbit - Del Toro No Longer Director

Postby Rikadyn » 31 May 2010, 15:07

Time for Michael Bay to step in...
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Re: THe Hobbit - Del Toro No Longer Director

Postby sdhonda » 31 May 2010, 15:10

Rikadyn wrote:Time for Michael Bay to step in...


*drags off and medicates*
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Re: THe Hobbit - Del Toro No Longer Director

Postby Rikadyn » 31 May 2010, 15:19

sdhonda wrote:
Rikadyn wrote:Time for Michael Bay to step in...


*drags off and medicates*


What? Exploding Hobbits, it'll be awesome...
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Re: THe Hobbit - Del Toro No Longer Director

Postby EnglishMQ » 31 May 2010, 16:24

ThrashJazzAssassin wrote:
EnglishMQ wrote:Anyway, Hobbit seemed to be going that way for a while, but I don't think it'll be hard for them to find another director, or for Del Toro to get new work.

Del Toro has turned down The Hobbit because he's too busy with other work, so you're right there.


Sorry, I was under the impression it was production delays that were the major cause for concern, though that does all lead to the busy schedule, so thanks.
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Re: THe Hobbit - Del Toro No Longer Director

Postby King Kool » 31 May 2010, 20:38

That's a shame, but I'm sure it could still be good.
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