This thread is so gay

[ex-Lurker]

Ditto on that, I love me my worldly knowledge
(More on topic, it's good to see that the number of countries that allow same-sex marriage is increasing,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage#Modern).

[Fezzul]

As I side note to all this, a gay issue of particular relevance to me has come to light.

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2013/09/05/oman-news-editor-who-published-sympathetic-article-about-gay-life-to-face-public-prosecution/

This is Oman, the country where I grew up. Recently a paper called 'The Week' (one of the highest circulation papers in Oman, generally pretty well respected, I read it regularly when I lived there) published an article about the underground gay lifestyle in Oman. And are now being sued by the government for it. The article is very interesting. Oman is generally viewed as one of the more socially progressive countries in the Arab world, but homosexuality is still a touchy issue.

Oman is a relatively young country, it was a third-world country in the 70s and 80s, and was still developing when my family moved their in the late 90s. It has made fast progress from what used to be a very strict religious, and technologically insular state to being what it is today. Also, it is a generally accepted, but rarely talked about fact that the Sultan (the leader of Oman, who has been largely responsible for its fast economic growth and rapid social development) is a closet homosexual.

So this article and the reaction is kind of a big deal, it is, in some ways, what you might consider the forefront of the gay-rights movement in the Middle-East. Basically speaking, Oman is a whole country operating under "Don't ask don't tell".

I have a great fondness for the place, having grown up there. The people are generally friendly, the lifestyle is relaxed, lots of nature to get in to, and good food. They are fairly progressive on women's rights, women are allowed to work and drive, they don't have to cover up by law (although some choose to anyone for one reason or another), they are not the property of their husband or anything like that. Most of all, they been able to develop financially and technologically without losing their cultural identity. But it still has a ways to go yet.

I wondered how this looks from the outside?

[ex-Lurker]

Speaking bluntly, like another Middle Eastern country.
(But then again, also like certain places in the US, as well as other countries)
It turns out being non-heterosexual sucks in a societal sense, who knew?

[AlexanderDitto]

Speaking bluntly, like another Middle Eastern country.
(But then again, also like certain places in the US, as well as other countries)
It turns out being non-heterosexual sucks in a societal sense, who knew?

It is surprising how much similar Middle Eastern countries and small rural parts of the US are.

[Dominic Appleguard]

Dunno if this has been posted already, but here goes.

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colber ... y-cummings

[viscomica]

"Russia's not the only place trying to defend its family values"

Are you kidding me, funny man in a suit? Haha, sorry, is that from some kind of commedy show? Some people!

[tak197]

"Russia's not the only place trying to defend its family values"

Are you kidding me, funny man in a suit? Haha, sorry, is that from some kind of commedy show? Some people!

I dunno if you are serious, but yes, The Colbert Report is a satirical version of the same kinds of Political pundit shows you'd see on Fox News.

[cuddlyblade]

So apparently gay marriage has been scientifically proven to be wrong................ using magnets .

http://io9.com/nigerian-grad-student-uses-magnets-to-prove-gay-marri-1326215449

Dear FUCKING god some people. You should also see his mathematical reasoning for it being wrong too. It's a riot.

[Master Gunner]

On a brighter note, here's an article on how Oscar Wilde and Walt Whitman probably had sex once.

[AlexanderDitto]

On a brighter note, here's an article on how Oscar Wilde and Walt Whitman probably had sex once.

I retweeted this on twittwr because it is kind of amazing.

As my friend said, now if only we could confirm Hemingway/Fitzgerald....

[AlexanderDitto]

So wonderful.

Hell now a Thriving Epicenter of Gay Culture [THE ONION]

[Dominic Appleguard]

Anyone have a reaction to Pope Francis's recent interview?
What should the church say to divorced and remarried people, and homosexuals?

"In Buenos Aires I used to receive letters from homosexual persons who are “socially wounded” because they tell me that they feel like the church has always condemned them. But the church does not want to do this. During the return flight from Rio de Janeiro, I said that if a homosexual person is of good will and is in search of God, I am no one to judge. By saying this, I said what the catechism says. Religion has the right to express its opinion in the service of the people, but God in creation has set us free: it is not possible to interfere spiritually in the life of a person.

"A person once asked me, in a provocative manner, if I approved of homosexuality. I replied with another question: “Tell me: when God looks at a gay person, does he endorse the existence of this person with love, or reject and condemn this person?” We must always consider the person."

I think the most interesting thing about these comments is how thunderously silent he is about whether gay sex is sinful. I mean, liberal leanings are good, right?

Also, he seems to endorse the idea that homosexuality is a state of being, not a choice. Very interesting.

So, is this good news? Does the pope's opinion on gay/lesbian folks even matter?

[AlexanderDitto]

I think the most interesting thing about these comments is how thunderously silent he is about whether gay sex is sinful. I mean, liberal leanings are good, right?

Also, he seems to endorse the idea that homosexuality is a state of being, not a choice. Very interesting.

So, is this good news? Does the pope's opinion on gay/lesbian folks even matter?

It matters even if you're not Catholic, or ex-Catholic atheist (like me). Having the Pope say something like that reverberates with a lot of people. Maybe it'll be enough to get some of those people stop being assholes. And I guarantee you there are LGBT kids who are suffering because their parents are Catholic, and maybe this will make it a bit better for at least some of them.

Won't matter much for me, my parents are still gonna be assholes I'm sure. But hopefully someone!

He's a Jesuit, so it's unsurprising he's liberal. The Jesuits have been at odds with the ultra-conservative parts of the church for a while now. Mainly because the ultra-conservative parts of the church are fucking nuts.

I wish he'd go further, and it won't have a huge impact (since local authorities exert a lot of control over their dioceses)... but at least he's not a shitbag like Benedict.

[Dominic Appleguard]

I'm an ex-Catholic too! That's part of why I brought it up.

I'd agree that his Jesuit roots are going to make a big difference in his perspective on the Church. We're talking about a different kind of christian; if it were a fantasy realm I'd call them "Scholar-Priests".

Earlier today I was musing on how Jesus pretty much swept out Leviticus with regards to Kosher law and other comparatively small details of Jews' day-to-day lives, but things like "if a man lies with another man" remain sacrosanct. The cultural reasons are fairly obvious but the theological basis is highly questionable.

I often face a dilemma, as an atheist who wants to make theists understand that there's more to life than rules in a book. Hopefully Pope Francis can make people think twice about this kind of nonsense.

[Bebop Man]

As an Argentine I've been more than aware of Bergoglio well before the whole world knew him as the pope. He's been historically anti-gay, openly condemning gay marriage (when it was still a project in the country) as "destroying god's plan" and equating it to the devil's work ("it comes from devil's envy in an attempt to destroy god").

Spanish link:
http://tn.com.ar/politica/dura-condena- ... gay_038359

This is from 2010. Three year's later, he's pope and playing the role of humbled man. Pfff.

[AlexanderDitto]

As an Argentine I've been more than aware of Bergoglio well before the whole world knew him as the pope. He's been historically anti-gay, openly condemning gay marriage (when it was still a project in the country) as "destroying god's plan" and equating it to the devil's work ("it comes from devil's envy in an attempt to destroy god").

Spanish link:
http://tn.com.ar/politica/dura-condena- ... gay_038359

This is from 2010. Three year's later, he's pope and playing the role of humbled man. Pfff.

Sure, it's likely a PR move from the Vatican, since they realized Benedict's style of doing things wasn't going to be a good long-term strategy for the church. Eventually old people die, and without young people being lured into the church to continue to fill it's coffers, the church will die. Young people in general tend to be less keen on the anti-gay thing, so the church has to adapt or die.

I'd rather see everyone driving away from an increasingly radical church, because it would lead to the church's death more quickly... but this route is probably more peaceful and will have better short-term impacts. The end result is still probably good.

[Kthanid]

Yeah everything the Pope has said is basically setting things up so the church can survive into the latter half of this century. As it stands with the baby-boomer generation aging out and Generation X hitting their stride in terms of leadership we're seeing an increasing swing towards a more liberal world view, it's already happened in a lot of (western) countries. So to combat that the church will have to evolve or become extinct in many devoloped and developing countries.

[Kthanid]

Yeah everything the Pope has said is basically setting things up so the church can survive into the latter half of this century. As it stands with the baby-boomer generation aging out and Generation X hitting their stride in terms of leadership we're seeing an increasing swing towards a more liberal world view, it's already happened in a lot of (western) countries. So to combat that the church will have to evolve or become extinct in many devoloped and developing countries.

[Merrymaker_Mortalis]

With faith, it's very personal.

But it's very easily to 'brush' everyone the same.
Just because "Christianity" is known to be anti-gay, doesn't mean every single 'member' is anti-gay.

I'm Christian and I am Bisexual.

With faith, you have to be aware of human corruption. You have to keep it personal. You are not compelled to stay with 'one' type. You can be not "Catholic for life", or "Evangelical" for life. You can 'slip around'.
Even within those sects, people can be radically different from each other.

Faith is personal. The "Church" is the people.

It is very easy if you've never had a faith. Or if you're embittered to assume all of THE CHURCH is bad.

Why would God hate some of his children if they found happiness with people of their own gender?

God doesn't hate. People hate.

Besides, God (if he exists) is most-likely to have attributes of both genders.

Googled "gay christians", and you get quite a lot of results.

[Bebop Man]

The church is so desperate to rake up followers it's ready to whore out and take more lukewarm stances about EVERYTHING. Why would anybody want to belong to an institution that's for pretty much anything? It reminds me of that Stephen Fry quote - "Then what are you for?!".

[Master Gunner]

The biggest protestant denomination in Canada is often described as pretty much for anything. Though that can be attributed largely due to been an amalgamation of several different churches and trying to satisfy all their differences, as well as the bottom-up organization style (the clergy is typically chosen by the congregation rather than appointed by a higher body, so the individual churches will obviously hold views that reflect their community).

[ex-Lurker]

The church is so desperate to rake up followers it's ready to whore out and take more lukewarm stances about EVERYTHING. Why would anybody want to belong to an institution that's for pretty much anything? It reminds me of that Stephen Fry quote - "Then what are you for?!".

Same with a lot of political parties, but if this leads to social progress, I'm not going to complain.

[Bebop Man]

I'd sooner see the church disappear, to be honest. Thousands of years of slowing down humanity with violence and primitive worldviews. New pope goes back on his word about gays being the devil, and suddenly everyone's creaming their pants.

[viscomica]

Well, it was a politically motivated move after all...

[ex-Lurker]

I'd sooner see the church disappear, to be honest. Thousands of years of slowing down humanity with violence and primitive worldviews. New pope goes back on his word about gays being the devil, and suddenly everyone's creaming their pants.

As an atheist, so would I, but I'll take what I can actually get.