Doctor Who

[Keab42]

Wow. That was just Wow!

I can say that I predicted a lot of those plot points.

[Ottoman]

Argh, the torrent isn't up yet. Why why why.

[Lyinginbedmon]

And I was on Twitter for all of them Keab, grrrrrr

Also the reproduction idea sort of fails when you realise that, contrary to what Noah was told, 2 people is not a big enough gene pool to sustain a species. Silly as the Doctor often is, inbreeding after a few Time Lord generations can't be good. The reason populations survive is because they gradually evolve from being able to intermingle to being unable.

[Merrymaker_Mortalis]

Very epic character-developement and seed sowing episode. I thoroughly look forwards to what to come.

Is it me, or did it feel very fast-paced?

The Nazi setting seemed a bit irrelevent. Only thing it served was to connect time-traveling cops who wanted to persecute Hitler to say Melody is also a war criminal (mmm, *what* war? Madam Ladypatch I doubt was being metaphorical about the war verses the Doctor. Does the Doctor go to war at some point?) It's also interesting that there's Doctor sympathisers. How many people know the Doctor will die? Why has no one told him (I mean in the history of the show?)

[Lyinginbedmon]

Actually, River was just on record for the crime of murdering The Doctor, not for being a war criminal. They never said they only punish war criminals, just that they punish those who aren't punished in their own lifetimes.

[Myrph]

Why has no one told him (I mean in the history of the show?)

Because telling a time traveller what happens later in his time line would ruin the time line and mess up the universe. Again.

Other than that I thoroughly enjoyed the episode, the bit with Melody in the restaurant was hilarious, I loved the effects with the Teselecta changing its appearance.

Also explains the end of Forest of the Dead.

[Merrymaker_Mortalis]

Why has no one told him (I mean in the history of the show?)

Because telling a time traveller what happens later in his time line would ruin the time line and mess up the universe. Again.

Other than that I thoroughly enjoyed the episode, the bit with Melody in the restaurant was hilarious, I loved the effects with the Teselecta changing its appearance.

Also explains the end of Forest of the Dead.

Why she's working with the Order of the Headless monks for pennance?

[iamafish]

well, that was epic!

Robot, time-travelling justice machines, controlled by tiny people, literally pushing leavers in the robot's head. Awesome. Locking Hitler in a cupboard. Awesome. The Doctor dying, again. He's as bad a Rory. More to the point, the Doctor in white tie. Awesome.

Great River Song genesis episode and a hell of a lot of exposition for the rest of the series. I especially liked the bit where they cycle through previous companions. Even if it was a little forced, it was nice to acknowledge RTD era companions. I liked how the Doctor was still kinda hung up on those three, but not in the same as 10 was (ie, constantly going on about it).

[madrak_the_red]

And now I think I know what's going on, awesome

[ebMusicMan]

So if this is how they get out of the whole River is programed to kill The Doctor thing, are they telling us that he really dies in 2011 and that this is his last ever regeneration?

[Dave-O_Boy]

After watching this I'm even more convinced that The Silence are also behind the events of Torchwood's Miracle Day.

I kind of wish that didn't just jump right to River Song's current appear as it makes so that character can't carry on outside of the Matt Smith era.

[AlexanderDitto]

Just finished watching the episode. HOLY SHIT that was good! Stephen Moffat showing once again that he can write circles around RTD. All the ends are tying together, everything falls into place...

I kind of wish that didn't just jump right to River Song's current appear as it makes so that character can't carry on outside of the Matt Smith era.

We never did see her regenerate from little girl into Mel... you never know how many regens there have been between them. :B

Also wait shit does this mean it's now re-cannon that Time Lords/Ladies have a finite number of regenerations? Remember the Master was granted more somewhere in the Sixth or Seventh Doctor's tenture... how was that possible, if River gave the Doctor "all of her" regenerations? AUGH I just don't want Doctor Who to end because of that stupid arbitrarily imposed limit!

[ebMusicMan]

Also wait shit does this mean it's now re-cannon that Time Lords/Ladies have a finite number of regenerations? Remember the Master was granted more somewhere in the Sixth or Seventh Doctor's tenture... how was that possible, if River gave the Doctor "all of her" regenerations? AUGH I just don't want Doctor Who to end because of that stupid arbitrarily imposed limit!

At least They didn't say how many, could be 5 million for all we know lol

[Drinnik]

Also wait shit does this mean it's now re-cannon that Time Lords/Ladies have a finite number of regenerations? Remember the Master was granted more somewhere in the Sixth or Seventh Doctor's tenture... how was that possible, if River gave the Doctor "all of her" regenerations? AUGH I just don't want Doctor Who to end because of that stupid arbitrarily imposed limit!

The Master wasn't granted more regens, he stole the body of Tremas, leader of the Trakens and father of Nyssa.

He was given more by the Time Lords to take part in the Time War.

[VIIIOne85]

That was freaking awesome! Can't believe how good DW has become since Steven Moffat took over from RTD. I love how there is more of a focus on an overall story rather than 'monster of the week' episodes with small story points sprinkled throughout. Matt Smith is absolutely my Doctor and in spite of saying that, Rory is still my favourite character. Steven Moffats writing is always good. Love Sherlock! Love Jekyll and really Love Coupling!

[Merrymaker_Mortalis]

They might do some bullshit that allows Riversong to wiggle out of the Libary death, or the Future Doctor returns to the computer at the Libary and restores Riversong and all her mates to physical form.

I still don't think it's River who shoots the Doctor at Lake Silencetwatfaceio. Inless River has perfected the art of acting. I still... wonder why Moffat chose Riversong to be there at the start of this series' double bill. Makes sense easily for the Doctor as he and she. Plotwise, Moffat could have easily written it so the Doctor still mistrusts River so he doesn't invite her.
Why does River have to be present at series' start?

I wonder if it's deliberate so Moffat can confuse people by "If River is there and the little girl is River wouldn't *whimper* *whimper* BRAIN HURTZ".
I don't know. Moffat, make this make sense. Don't pull a cheap Big Bang 2.

One last question, Why must Rory, Amy and River watch the Doctor die? I'm sure it's nothing to do with Amy accidently telling the Doctor he dies. That's a little anticlimatic.

[AlexanderDitto]

Also wait shit does this mean it's now re-cannon that Time Lords/Ladies have a finite number of regenerations? Remember the Master was granted more somewhere in the Sixth or Seventh Doctor's tenture... how was that possible, if River gave the Doctor "all of her" regenerations? AUGH I just don't want Doctor Who to end because of that stupid arbitrarily imposed limit!

The Master wasn't granted more regens, he stole the body of Tremas, leader of the Trakens and father of Nyssa.

He was given more by the Time Lords to take part in the Time War.

You'll have to forgive me, I've never watched any of that era, but I'm still confused. He wasn't granted more regens, but he WAS given more by the Time Lords? That's... that's what I'm talking about. The being given more to take part in the Time War thing? Or did that happen later? Either way it's been shown Time Lords can be "given" more regenerations, right?

[Ottoman]

The way it was talked about in this episodes, it seems like each Gallifreyan has a finite amount of energy which they can harness for regenerations. So, River tried to transfer one regen's worth, but because of how difficult that process is to control (that is, she couldn't stop it), she accidentally transferred n regens; then, either because it was equally hard to control on the Doctor's end, or because the transfer is very inefficient, all but one regen dissipated or was otherwise lost.

This all begs the question of how this energy is stored, of course, and how there was a previously-defined limit of exactly 12. For example, Romana's regeneration wasn't a necessity brought on by imminent death, she was just changing her appearance; surely, this wouldn't take as much energy as any one of the Doctor's regenerations during which his body had to be repaired.
And how would that little incident in The Stolen Earth affect the Doctor's overall regeneration ability?

What a mess.

[Merrymaker_Mortalis]

Spacey wacey wibbly wobbly?

[ebMusicMan]

The way it was talked about in this episodes, it seems like each Gallifreyan has a finite amount of energy which they can harness for regenerations. So, River tried to transfer one regen's worth, but because of how difficult that process is to control (that is, she couldn't stop it), she accidentally transferred n regens; then, either because it was equally hard to control on the Doctor's end, or because the transfer is very inefficient, all but one regen dissipated or was otherwise lost.

This all begs the question of how this energy is stored, of course, and how there was a previously-defined limit of exactly 12. For example, Romana's regeneration wasn't a necessity brought on by imminent death, she was just changing her appearance; surely, this wouldn't take as much energy as any one of the Doctor's regenerations during which his body had to be repaired.
And how would that little incident in The Stolen Earth affect the Doctor's overall regeneration ability?

What a mess.

Perhaps this was done in order to give him more regenerations? If he got all of River's energy he ostensibly got all of her regenerations. If we go with 12 as the number he's used 10 (maybe 11 if we count the one in Stolen Earth). As far as we know River has only regenerated twice, once in New York from the little girl to Mels and once in Berlin from Mels to River. So this whole thing was possibly to give The Doctor 10 more regenerations.

Which again doesn't make any sense if he still actually dies as 11. Grrr curse you Steven, me head asplode!!

[Ottoman]

Oh, there was one other thing, that I nearly forgot:

Regeneration disabled. You will be dead in 32 minutes.

Why disabled? How does that make any sense? The only thing I can think of is that somehow the poison was inhibiting the process, but that wording seems weird. I guess it doesn't really matter at this point, though.

[Lyinginbedmon]

As a severely harsh and clinical observation of his medical state, that seems very appropriate.

[Gordon Fearman]

Actually, River was just on record for the crime of murdering The Doctor, not for being a war criminal. They never said they only punish war criminals, just that they punish those who aren't punished in their own lifetimes.

No, they specifically call her a "war criminal".

Anyway, this episode feels really...small and unexciting. There's some great humour in there but it's a really unambitious plot. Essentially the entire episode is spent in 3 rooms. There in the Führer's office for the first part, then the robot, then the restaurant.

[Ottoman]

Yeah, considering how outlandish their budget is, you'd expect a lot more.

LOL, silly me, I forgot the sarcasm font!!! XP What a great system though am I right?????

[AlexanderDitto]

Yeah, considering how outlandish their budget is, you'd expect a lot more.

Remember, sometimes they blow the budget on certain episodes and have to tighten the belt on others. Remember Neil Gaiman's episode earlier in the season? ...yeah. I'm not surprised.

And honestly one of the most brilliant things about Doctor Who is that it can be a rollicking good time whether it's taking place in The Globe Theatre or in a cupboard.

Why disabled? How does that make any sense? The only thing I can think of is that somehow the poison was inhibiting the process, but that wording seems weird. I guess it doesn't really matter at this point, though.

From Wikipedia:

It has been suggested in the series many times that regeneration is not guaranteed and can fail. ...in Planet of the Spiders, the Third Doctor's regeneration requires "a little push" from fellow Time Lord .... As he succumbs to spectrox toxaemia in The Caves of Androzani, the Fifth Doctor says, "I might regenerate... I don't know... It feels different this time...".... The 1996 TV movie showed the Doctor's regeneration delayed for more than three hours, with the Eighth Doctor later remarking that the fact his Seventh incarnation was under anaesthesia at the time of his "death" could have "destroyed the regenerative process", and that he was "dead" prior to his regeneration.... In The Mind of Evil the Master points a conventional firearm at the Doctor and threatens to "put a bullet through both [his] hearts," while in "Forest of the Dead", Professor Song warns that electrocution would stop both the Time Lord's hearts, killing him. In "Turn Left"—which presents an alternative timeline—a UNIT member speculates that the Tenth Doctor is killed "too quickly for him to regenerate." In the first part of The End of Time, the Doctor tells Wilfred Mott that if he is killed before the regeneration can start, then it will fail.

So basically there are certain scenarios under which the Doctor's regenerative ability fails. If, for example, this poison stopped both of his hearts, it seems he wouldn't be able to regenerate.

Weird thing is, Judas Trees aren't poisonous to humans... maybe they are poisonous to Time Lords? Maybe River Song's half-human heritage makes her immune to the poison. Hm! Interesting.

Perhaps this was done in order to give him more regenerations? If he got all of River's energy he ostensibly got all of her regenerations. If we go with 12 as the number he's used 10 (maybe 11 if we count the one in Stolen Earth). As far as we know River has only regenerated twice, once in New York from the little girl to Mels and once in Berlin from Mels to River. So this whole thing was possibly to give The Doctor 10 more regenerations.

I never thought of that, but that is a good point! Haha, they could probably use that excuse. Brilliant.