ABUSE / HAUGULAGUGAGH!

[Vigafre]

Dang, I read that as "Emma Watson" and now I'm disappointed.

[JustAName]

You guys are making me really sad inside. Normally I'd just leave it at that and hope the thread would be forgotten, but if you're taking this attitude, it's going to come up again. Has courtesy really fallen this far out of fashion? Politeness isn't just for when you feel like it, or it ceases to mean anything. I thought that maybe people could be civil and decent to one another. That they could comment on what annoyed them, but not claim that these people need to be wiped out because they're trying to achieve a state of grammatical purity. Maybe I don't belong here. I don't know. I'm just not cut out for this kind of hostility.

[theDreamer]

You guys are making me really sad inside. Normally I'd just leave it at that and hope the thread would be forgotten, but if you're taking this attitude, it's going to come up again. Has courtesy really fallen this far out of fashion? Politeness isn't just for when you feel like it, or it ceases to mean anything. I thought that maybe people could be civil and decent to one another. That they could comment on what annoyed them, but not claim that these people need to be wiped out because they're trying to achieve a state of grammatical purity. Maybe I don't belong here. I don't know. I'm just not cut out for this kind of hostility.

No, stay.

I think it's clear that there is clearly some kind of split in the community on this.

That is clear.

But here's the fun part: it's irrelevant what the community thinks.

The mods think that being hostile is bullshit.

Thus, on their damn page (recall these mods actually OWN THE PLACE), the hostility is bullshit.

Thus, don't. do. it.

Edit: it's funny, Fay, because your signature is anti-grammar.

WEEEEEEE

[Evil Jim]

Courtesy & manners work both ways, including taking care to write in a manner that clearly conveys your message so others can understand. In a forum, words are all you have. And saying, "It's just a forum so who cares how well I write?" is just ignorant & rude."

[Digital Dolphin]

I think people need to chill out on both sides. I don't see the point in correcting/editing other people's work without their attention being drawn to it, because it won't help them learn at all (it just makes busy-work for you).

Drawing their attention to it on the other hand, usually makes you look like a dick, and makes them feel bad. Either a person has an interest in bettering their writing/grammar, or they don't. The only real question is if the forum is where the forum owners decide to draw the line on how much poor grammar is "against the rules".

Once that line is drawn, if it's against the rules, do something about it. If it's not against the rules, then ignore it and get on with your forum perusing. It's really not worth making a huge issue out of, as it only drives people away.

[Matt]

Listen. Wheaton's law says "Don't be a dick." not "Don't be a dick unless the other guy is being a dick, and then game on!"

If a newbie comes along posting like a schmuck and you kindly try to point him in the direction of grammar and spelling, and he gets defensive then send me or one of the other mods a DM and let us know. Don't start tag-team railing on him.

When you get hostile to a newbie, I then have to spend the whole fucking afternoon on damage control, as he complains to me in DMs about what giant dicks you've all been to him, and the moment I start telling him how he could avoid it, I become a new enemy. Throw me a bone here. Be nice, point me in the direction of nonconformists, and let me (or another mod) handle it.

Your guys job is to have fun and be an awesome community, not to circle the wagons and run off any person that doesn't fit immediately into your paradigm.

-m

[Mad Madam Mimm]

Spelling mistakes, in titles particularly, make it difficult for me to take the posting party seriously. I mean, a typo here and there is no problem (I know, I make enough of them) but whan the topic title is obtuse and vague, and the first post looks like a victim of forced vowel evacuation, I can't read it, so I don't read it. If the poster continues to write in that way, then I end up ignoring their posts, not through a particular prejudice, but because I can't understand what they're saying. I'm not saying that's the right response, but "live and let live" seems to be the only way of handling it... how can you communicate with someone who you can't understand?

Also, as for the "english as a second language" thing, there was a french girl on another forum I was on. She did somethign that was very much against the rules, and when people told her to delete her posts, she had a major freakout and started flaming everyone, claiming she didn't understand. I stepped in (being quite familiar with the french language at the time), tried to defend her and translate so she could understand, and she then proceeded to channel her bile towards me. At which point I told her she was on her own and went to watch youtube videos.

I'm not saying everyone who fails at correct spelling and grammar is stupid. Far from it. But, in my experience, the people who use poor spelling and grammar are ones to watch out for. So yes, I guess I am prejudiced. But not without grounds, and not to such a level that I would be outwardly hostile to anyone who can't or won't spell or punctuate correctl.y

[Whitmore]

This would never happen in a King Kool™ brand thread.

[Lord Chrusher]

I will risk sounding like a stereotypical west coaster* and say that I have not been getting a good vibe from the forums recently. It is a combination of stupid posts and people being dicks.


*A little of topic: At least one of my friends in Oz thinks all Canadians are stoners.

[Whitmore]

At least one of my friends in Oz thinks all Canadians are stoners.

Haha, I've heard that before.

[Evil Jim]

As mentioned in an old podcast, when a foreigner once discovered Graham was from Victoria, B.C. the first thing he said was "Oh, so you have the weed then."

[Lord Chrusher]

Admittedly one of the other Canadians we work with is your stereotypical BC stoner even though he is originally from Ontario.

[Ottoman]

Hey, Matt. I think you dropped this.

[/b]

[Master Gunner]

I meant more judge by the content of the post rather than by the fact that it's misspelled or grammatically incorrect.

The problem is when the spelling and grammar get so bad that I cannot understand the content of the post. At that point pretty much all I have to judge them by is a pile of random gibberish, hence my gut reactions of either telling them as much, or ignoring them completely. Hopefully I choose the latter more often, as I fully admit to having a tendency to get too hostile to quickly in those situations.

[theDreamer]

...I wish to table a movement, or something...

"One is often enough."

For any thread, when someone uses grammar or spelling that you find utterly offensive to your higher senses, ONLY MAKE A POST REGARDING IT IF NO OTHER EXISTS.

And if you are ninja'd, delete it.

After that, more the fuck on.

Even if that isn't hard coded, it should make sense.

If someone has said "please to be fixing your grammars" before you, you saying "it's really rude when you have bad grammar" in response to the same damned post is just unneeded.

And makes us look hostile.

AND I DON'T WANT TO BE SEEN AS FUCKING HOSTILE! (see what I did there?)

[Keab42]

I remember Tim asked us our opinions on Online Communities not so long back. I remember saying that joining a new community is daunting. Well right now I'd hate to be a new member of this community. The hostility from certain members would mean that I'd either not risk joining or disappear after having my first few posts ripped to shreds. A community thrives on its new members, they fill the gaps left by the older ones who've drifted away. Keep being hostile like this and you'll start to move the LRR forums away from being the brilliant community that attracted us in the first place.

I think Matt summed it up best though.

[Metcarfre]

@tak ...Which included a picture of Stephen Fry, Hugh Laurie, and Emma Thompson all together on the set of a show I'd never heard of before, so AWESOME!

Also, that article made reference to another article that claims many teens and young people are unemployable as they are restricted to 800 words or so due to 'textspeak'. Anybody have a link?

[luinie]

As someone who's native language is something totally different from English, I find it quite hard to understand totally messed-up grammar. This forum (and Internet in general) is a great way of learning living language that you can't find in textbooks. Also, as many have said before me, correcting the title is okay since a badly spelled title tends to make me want to run away.
I probably have no high ground on this conversation, though... (please, feel free to correct my grammar/spelling any time!)

[Metcarfre]

Aside from your location, I wouldn't have guessed you weren't a native English speaker. Good job!

[luinie]

:curtsey:

[Metcarfre]

So I thought it would be best if there was a standardized way to address posts with poor grammar in the future, to avoid the vitriol and abuse that occasionally happens. So I went to the liberty of creating a form letter for future use;

Dear [sir/madam/person of indeterminate gender/spambot]

I wish to register a complaint regarding your recent post. In it, I found a certain [minor/major/egregious/Hitleresque] issue with your grammar. This [misuse/abuse/systematic rape and torture] of the English language is, in general, frowned upon on this forum. Proper writing and style makes it easier and more pleasant to read your [posts/arguments/literary discussions of an existential nature/vitriolic, obscenity-laden blathering regarding the superiority of a particular gaming console].

I have taken the liberty of reviewing your post, and I have identified some or all of the following mistakes (highlight some or all as necessary);
- Misspelling
- [Lack/excessive use] of capitalization
- Poor sentence structure
- Excessive use of ellipses
- Text/chatspeak
- Lack of the Oxford comma

If you would be so kind as to correct [this/these] [mistake/issues/human rights violations] now or in the future, it would be greatly appreciated.

Sincerely,

[name]

You're welcome.

[Matt]

I'd rather you just ask the person nicely to correct their style, without snark or sarcasm.

-m

[Spatial Coffee]

*Takes a look at the thread*
*Remembers the calamity in the space cowboy thread*

No... No, this is all bad. This isn't the forum I know, this is just people being mean. There must be a way to fix this...

*Hugs everyone*

It's okay guys, we don't have to be a bunch of dicks, do we? Can't we just, even for a short while, try to be polite and welcoming towards each other? I mean, the correct spelling and punctuation can't be that big of a deal, right?

[Drinnik]

I think a valuable thing to remember is that we. as posters, have no right to order/correct/belittle someone elses posts due to grammatical errors.

That's a mod's job. Think of this as their clubhouse, not ours, and we're guests, not the club leaders.

[AlexanderDitto]

I will risk sounding like a stereotypical west coaster* and say that I have not been getting a good vibe from the forums recently. It is a combination of stupid posts and people being dicks.

I'm on the east coast, and I'm getting this vibe too.

I'm tired of hearing this ridiculous bit about "well I don't understand them if they use bad grammar!"

Then you politely say you're having trouble understanding, and ask them to clarify!

How hard is it to not be a dick? Ugh. Come on, you guys.