Anonymous/ Politics/ dog killer thread

[octopimpostor]

http://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2011/02/07/hbgary-federal-hacked-and-exposed-by-anonymous/
im about sick and tired of them. Why would people commend these people?

[King Kool]

Not all Anonymous is good.

[Alja-Markir]

Anonymous is the bicycle thief in a room full of master burglars.

The fact that people get so worked up over groups like them is a testament to just how ignorant they are about the truly dangerous organizations out there. Hell, I'd almost be willing to suggest that Anonymous is actually a clever distraction set up by one of the big projects like TR.

~Alja~

[Tim]

I hope the jerks who did this go to jail.

Seriously.

[the_lone_bard]

Like it or not anonymous is the america of the internet.
They do what they want and if your smart you just let them do whatever it is they're doing and don't get involved.

basicly, If they think you've fucked with them, well your fucked, So why are people still suprised at this?

[Alja-Markir]

Why are people acting like this is all that shocking? It's not like they attacked an innocent or defenseless target, after all.

They compromised the databases of a corporate private security firm, one that was actively taking action against them for personal profit. Think about what that implies.

1) For being a security firm, they sure have piss poor security.

2) Anyone who is going to snoop into Anonymous' dealings should be smart enough to not draw attention to themselves while doing so - retaliation is to be expected.

3) HBGary was founded by Greg Hoglund, a notorious member of the Black Hat Society. The skillset he employs as a computer security professional was learned by committing exactly this sort of cybercrime - malicious and illegal hacking. The only difference is he made the right deals with the right people to get his record wiped clean and keep him out of jail, so that now he can sell rootkits and write books on how to exploit systems for profit, all in the name of "security". The guy is a snake and his numerous companies are jokes.

I'm not saying I condone or support the actions of Anonymous, but I sure as hell don't see why people are condemning them quite this violently either. I've seen less uproar over matters several orders of magnitude more serious than this, like the stupidity of the TSA, the closing of public libraries, or the availability of food and medicine to refugees, just to name a few.

~Alja~

[iamafish]

so this story is about dicks being dicks to other dicks.

If people were nice people, this wouldn't happen. Why can't we be nice people?

[King Kool]

If people were nice people, this wouldn't happen. Why can't we be nice people?

SHUT YOUR ASS FAT MOUTH, YOU ASS FAT PENIS.

[iamafish]

I'm totally gonna hack your ass and fuck your life up for that

[King Kool]

THAT SOUNDS SO SEXY, I CAN NO LONGER USE A LAPTOP COMFORTABLY, MY PRIAPISM IS LIKE THREE CANS OF COKE STACKED ALONG SIDE ONE ANOTHER IN A T SHAPE.

DON'T JUDGE MY T-SHAPED PENIS. IT'S ALL THE RAGE IN BRAZIL AND LAOS.

[iamafish]

you really got the mix of douchbaggery and nonsense down to a tee there.

still gonna ruin your life though

[King Kool]

you really got the mix of douchbaggery and nonsense down to a tee there.

still gonna ruin your life though

I ROFL'd pretty good at that.

Let's get back on topic.

[JustAName]

Thanks, guys. That was the laugh I needed today. ^^

[octopimpostor]

I think the reason that I get so upset by this is because it's scarry. The interwebz is a very important part of my life. If they can use it to cut off sites, or steal identity, that's pretty terrifying. As an American, you want to get rid of all threats and things that scare you. Anonymous is both. I dont condone Greg hoglund, but I also don't condone anonymous. They are trying to gain their power by fear. "mess with us and you'll be sorry. Well shut you down and give away your personal identity." it's terrifying.

[JoshTheater]

Why after so many years are people still referring to Anonymous as an organization? Do you honestly think a bunch of people got together and did this as a group? Hell no, a couple people did this, or possibly even just ONE person who just happens to be Anonymous. That doesn't mean the "organization of Anonymous" (which doesn't exist at all, no matter how much you wish it might) is responsible. Anonymous is just a collective of people who communicate anonymously on the internet, there are thousands of them. The moral range of these people is HUGE. They don't get together and agree on things. Individuals will simply just act and say it was in the name of Anonymous.

It's like if one member of a country did something and you gave credit to the entire country's population. It just doesn't make any sense.

In fact, the whole reason this site was attacked was because that organization was attempting to "go after Anonymous". How stupid do you have to be to attempt to go after thousands of people who have no official affiliation with each other? Who have done nothing together as a group? To try to stop a non-existent organization for the actions of a few people...it's plain stupidity.

[octopimpostor]

Saying anonymous is not a group is like saying America is not a group. Anonymous is made up of individuals. America is made up of individuals. Not everyone in anonymous believes the same thing or participates in their activities. Not everyone in america believes the same thing or participates in their activities. Some members of anonymous participate in their own activities and say it was for anonymous. Some members of America participate in their own activities and say it was for America.
I'm sorry, like it or not, anonymous is a group.

[Dutch guy]

I'm sorry, like it or not, anonymous is a group.

It's a GROUP, yes, but its not an organisation! Which is what Josh is saying. A group does not have to be organised. And organisation has a structure and a goal which all individuals in this organistation are working towards. This is not the case for Anon. Its a group of idiots with some smart and dangerous people mixed in.

[Metcarfre]

... And this is why Obama needs a switch to turn off the internet!

[Agloriouscuppa]

..I dunno Egypt tried that and well, we see how that went.

[sdhonda]

For once I completely and utterly agree with Alja.

[JoshTheater]

Saying anonymous is not a group is like saying America is not a group. Anonymous is made up of individuals. America is made up of individuals. Not everyone in anonymous believes the same thing or participates in their activities. Not everyone in america believes the same thing or participates in their activities. Some members of anonymous participate in their own activities and say it was for anonymous. Some members of America participate in their own activities and say it was for America.
I'm sorry, like it or not, anonymous is a group.

So if one American citizen goes and kills a Muslim, and says he did it in the name of America, would you say America as a "group" was responsible? Would you damn all Americans, and say America needs to be stopped? That America is a dangerous terrible group of people?

What I'm saying is the difference between Anonymous and most other conventional groups is that when something is done in the name of Anonymous, it was one or a few random people. It wasn't given the go-ahead by a group leader, and it absolutely wasn't planned as a group. It probably isn't even condoned by the majority of Anonymous.

I know a lot of Anonymous people in real life, and they are my friends. They're actually nice, caring people who don't hack websites, pull pranks, or call people derogatory names. Anonymous is as big as America, if not bigger. You can't pin the actions of one or a few Anons on all of Anonymous, just because it's convenient.

[Alja-Markir]

There are a few key differences.

First is scope.

America is huge. Anonymous is tiny. Comparing the two is just ridiculous. When one person out of millions does something, it's much easier to disregard it as an outlier. When one person out of a thousand does something, it's not so easy.

Second is choice.

Most Americans are citizens by default, not by choice. Not just the default of being born to a US Citizen, but also the physical default of being located within the country, as well as the legal defaults of restricted international travel, and the economic defaults of the capitalist system of private property, et cetera.

Members of Anonymous choose to become members, and there is little to no barrier to entry.

Third is governance.

America has a legal government which act (supposedly) on it's behalf. People typically don't get angry at Americans themselves, but rather at the American government. There is a system of laws in place which dictate and control the actions the government can and cannot take, and in which situations.

Anonymous lacks any real organizational structure. They have a few variable communication channels which they use to disseminate information and roughly plan actions, but these are anything but official and work mostly through word of mouth and mob mentality. There is a core group of "real" members, several small inner circles, but these are loose social structures as opposed to any mandated logical organization. The average "member" of Anonymous wears a Guy Fawkes mask and thinks it's a cool idea to mess with those people who really deserve ire (Westboro Church, et alia), but these are the periphery.

This adds to confusion for outside observers, because they think the group is uniform. Really, it's not. It's an unruly mob, a textbook example of herd mentality. There are a few key trendsetters who try to focus the attention of the whole on certain targets, and then the rest (or parts) of the mass move (or don't) out of a reactionary impulse to follow the trend. And who the trendsetters are is constantly changing. One might crop up from within the periphery itself, pick out a target, and try to rally the group to attack it. But the real meat of truly malicious attacks comes from the inner regions, where the actual hackers and extremists hide out. And when those inner regions take action, this sort of event comes about.

~Alja~

[Alja-Markir]

I think the reason that I get so upset by this is because it's scarry. The interwebz is a very important part of my life. If they can use it to cut off sites, or steal identity, that's pretty terrifying. As an American, you want to get rid of all threats and things that scare you.

This. This is the problem with America.

Fear of the unknown. Fear of the possible, but uncertain.

You cannot ever, possibly be completely secure. People in America lock their doors, but no lock can stop a determined attack. Anyone who really wanted to could get into any house in the nation and kill everyone inside.

But it doesn't happen. Why?

Not because of home security systems. Not because of private gun ownership. Not because of the police, or the FBI, or the NSA, or the TSA, or anything else.

It doesn't happen because we have a civil society of (arguably) decent people. Because despite all of our ability to destroy, and the ease with which we can acquire weapons and destructive devices, people simply don't want to. Because the number of homicidal raging madmen in the world is so goddamn small as to be laughable.

People are afraid of terrorism in America. Bull. Fucking. Shit. You are untold numbers of times more likely to die driving to the grocery store than you ever are to die in a terrorist attack. You are more likely to be struck by lightning, or to choke to death on a bagel.

Americans are stupid. They fear anything they feel they can't control, even when it's not at all statistically likely. People are afraid to fly in an airliner when it's the safest way to travel. People are afraid to let their kids play outside or speak to strangers when their own family members are unbelievably more likely to abduct or sexually abuse them. People get their panties in a twist over Anonymous when fucking Titan Reign is buying off senators and blackmailing MPs.

But no one realizes. They all point at the first thing that seems like it might possibly be a threat and then start screaming and wailing and damning it without having a single goddamn clue. We've got people afraid of homosexuals but who don't give a shit about the sex slave industry. We've got people convinced that Obama is trying to ruin healthcare when our own government is designing and selling chemical weapons that put sarin gas to shame. We've got people quaking in their boots over nuclear power plants while the global amount of weapons-grade Material Unaccounted For (MUF) skyrockets. We've got an entire country of paranoid idiots who can't see past the imagined boogeymen in their own backyards to the real dangers of the world, and who think that we can solve things through force instead of through humanity.

~Alja~

[The Jester]

As cliché as it might sound, a lot of that is to do with the frenzy the media whip up in the populace with their scare tactics and alarmist approach. Scared people are easier to control. The government wants control, and would rather take the quick and easy approach by manipulating the culture that people live in rather than changing the structure of the education system to produce people how they want (although it's arguable that the piss-poor standard of education is also a product of government manipulation).

Perhaps I'm paranoid. Personally? I don't trust "the man". I think he's nefarious, but not because he wishes me harm. He's scared of me, and he wants to control me and make sure I don't rise up and "get him".
The thing about governments is, they act like ten year olds with Asperger's because they're run just the same way as herds and mobs are; they just do it with some officialism, and a modicum of self-control.

[Dubious_wolf]

I have to respect "Anon" for the sheer brashness of their schemes and ploys. It's doing all the things many people wish they could do and (sort of) getting away with it.
I personally don't feel threatened by the people within this group. They aren't going to start attacking something/someone unless provoked.

That said I don't particularly like the eye for an eye mentality of these guys. but hey to each their own...

I think the reason that I get so upset by this is because it's scarry. The interwebz is a very important part of my life. If they can use it to cut off sites, or steal identity, that's pretty terrifying. As an American, you want to get rid of all threats and things that scare you.

This. This is the problem with America.

Fear of the unknown. Fear of the possible, but uncertain.

You cannot ever, possibly be completely secure. People in America lock their doors, but no lock can stop a determined attack. Anyone who really wanted to could get into any house in the nation and kill everyone inside.

But it doesn't happen. Why?

Not because of home security systems. Not because of private gun ownership. Not because of the police, or the FBI, or the NSA, or the TSA, or anything else.

It doesn't happen because we have a civil society of (arguably) decent people. Because despite all of our ability to destroy, and the ease with which we can acquire weapons and destructive devices, people simply don't want to. Because the number of homicidal raging madmen in the world is so goddamn small as to be laughable.

People are afraid of terrorism in America. Bull. Fucking. Shit. You are untold numbers of times more likely to die driving to the grocery store than you ever are to die in a terrorist attack. You are more likely to be struck by lightning, or to choke to death on a bagel.

Americans are stupid. They fear anything they feel they can't control, even when it's not at all statistically likely. People are afraid to fly in an airliner when it's the safest way to travel. People are afraid to let their kids play outside or speak to strangers when their own family members are unbelievably more likely to abduct or sexually abuse them. People get their panties in a twist over Anonymous when fucking Titan Reign is buying off senators and blackmailing MPs.

But no one realizes. They all point at the first thing that seems like it might possibly be a threat and then start screaming and wailing and damning it without having a single goddamn clue. We've got people afraid of homosexuals but who don't give a shit about the sex slave industry. We've got people convinced that Obama is trying to ruin healthcare when our own government is designing and selling chemical weapons that put sarin gas to shame. We've got people quaking in their boots over nuclear power plants while the global amount of weapons-grade Material Unaccounted For (MUF) skyrockets. We've got an entire country of paranoid idiots who can't see past the imagined boogeymen in their own backyards to the real dangers of the world, and who think that we can solve things through force instead of through humanity.

~Alja~

This SOOOO this. Alja you always have an eloquence that sums things up nicely.