Osama Bin Laden Confirmed Dead!!!!

[Arius]

I agree with Alexander.

-thatlaurachick

[madrak_the_red]

Very few people deserve to die. This guy deserved to die.

[elvor]

Very few people deserve to die. This guy deserved to die.

This is basically my opinion on the subject.

[Lyinginbedmon]

Whereas my opinion is more closely summed up as:

Very few people deserve to die. This guy deserved to rot in a prison cell with naught but the rats for company for the rest of his life.

[Wraith]

I basically just agree with Aeric.

---

This death won't effect our foreign policy or military action, and our current legitimate threats will not change.

We KILLED the leader of Al-Qaeda. Our biggest threat DID just change.

This is probably the only thing Wraith said that I disagree with. Our biggest threat in the past 5+ years wasn't Bin Laden, and it's questionable to what capacity he actually mattered to the organization, other than as figurehead. Like saying that taking down Queen Elizabeth would knock out all of Great Britain.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying this is the end of Al-Qaeda. Not by a long shot. In fact, I'm as concerned as I've ever been about the prospect of reprisals. But said that our enemy hasn't changed, and for better or for worse, I do believe the organization will not be the same.

[Wraith]

I don't disagree with the ethics of a kill, I disagree with the ethics of any kill. Death is unpleasant at the best of times, and man have but a short time upon this earth normally, for it to be cut short for any reason whatsoever sits poorly with me regardless of circumstance.

The reason "murder" and "kill" don't share the same sensation of severity is societal, not moral, we've dreamt up a definition to say "killing someone else is bad" and "killing the enemy soldiers is good" because as empathetic creatures death is never comfortable for us,

No, we’ve dreamt up a definition to say “killing someone without legal cause is this” and “killing someone without legal cause is this.” The word YOU used was the one for killing someone without legal authorization, and was thus incorrect. As for death never being comfortable for us, I don’t know what you’re talking about, I find this news to be fantastic. What was uncomfortable was the thousands of innocent deaths he was responsible for.

Also (and this is not related to anything you or anyone else here said, but while I’m on the subject, a brief tangent), killing an animal is not, under any circumstances, murder. It can be unethical, but murder applies only to humans.

relegating one to a victory is a simple psychological method all around us today that helps ease our minds about it. The action and the consequences are the same. If I grab your car keys, drive away with your car, and never return it, it's theft regardless of the situation beforehand.

It sure is. But if you did it after I stole your much nicer car, and then sold it, you’d certainly be justified.

But again, much like murder, what you’re describing is a crime. Us killing Osama was not.

If someone runs around your neighborhood shooting people, it isn't a positive event in any way shape or form, because people are dying.

No, it isn’t a positive event in anyway shape or form because innocent people are dying. The difference is huge.

As I said, I'm not a pacifist, I won't stop anyone from taking up arms against villains of any sort, but I wouldn't have pulled the trigger either. If there was some meeting to decide whether that trigger should have been pulled at all, I would have left the room as voting began on the matter.

In other words, you want the bad man to go away, but you can’t “lower yourself” to condone doing what needs to be done to accomplish that.Typical.

I also can't deny that there must surely be some happiness from the death of a man so thoroughly linked with the deaths of tens of thousands of people, but in finding him and dismantling much of his support hundreds of thousands have died as well (Yes, a lot of them on his side, I know).

Is killing someone in retaliation so much better than outright killing someone?

Yes. Because he did something to deserve it.

I personally don't think so, I think a heart that stops beating and a brain that stops thinking are just as unfortunate and negative whether they threw the first punch or not. Maybe that's because I've never been in much of a situation of superior physical power over someone, maybe it's because I spent a large portion of my childhood being bullied by such characters, I honestly don't know, I just cannot condone the killing of anyone for any reason and, for me at least, doing so under the command of an army or a government is no different than plain, cold-blooded, murder.

Ridiculous. If we were to follow your beliefs, we’d all be speaking German, and everyone but the Arians would have been victims of a genocidal maniac. Where I come from, a man does what needs to be done, and quite frankly, I find righteous indignation over that very thing to be the mark of a self-centered coward.

When Everton FC wipes the floor with Man U, I'm not directly affected. I still celebrate.

Osama killed more than just the 3000 on 9/11, you know? People who try to act shocked and confused by people celebrating are just being idiots.
A shameless murderer is dead. I'm not shedding any tears.

I…agree with you?

DAMN YOU OSAMA! EVEN IN DEATH YOU BRING ME SUFFERING!

[Matt]

Whereas my opinion is more closely summed up as:

Very few people deserve to die. This guy deserved to rot in a prison cell with naught but the rats for company for the rest of his life.

That was never going to be an option. Even if he'd seen a trial, he'd have gotten the death penalty. No question. I think there's a very strong moralistic argument that an attempt should have been made to bring him to trial, but don't delude yourself into thinking he'd have survived it.

The liklihood of him ever making it to a trial alive would also have been exceedingly slim, given the fact that even the people assigned to guard him would have wanted to see him dead.

-m

[aeric90]

I…agree with you?

(I sincerley hope this is taken as the good natured jest I meant it to be)

Wait... what!? Is someone writing this down?! May 2nd, 2011! Wraith agrees!

*explosions of confetti**cake is served*

[King Kool]

I…agree with you?

(I sincerley hope this is taken as the good natured jest I meant it to be)

Wait... what!? Is someone writing this down?! May 2nd, 2011! Wraith agrees!

*explosions of confetti**cake is served*

You shouldn't celebrate that, man. This doesn't change anything, bleh bleh bleh. </douche>

In response to Matt: I hope that, if we'd brought him to trial, he'd have been protected so that no random asshole shoots him for the notoriety. Of course, he almost certainly would have been executed, but that's part of our justice system, for better or worse. Random vigilantism isn't.

[Lyinginbedmon]

Ridiculous. If we were to follow your beliefs, we’d all be speaking German, and everyone but the Aryans would have been victims of a genocidal maniac. Where I come from, a man does what needs to be done, and quite frankly, I find righteous indignation over that very thing to be the mark of a self-centered coward.

If "we" were to follow that belief, no-one would fight wars at all, including the Nazi party. Even then, what worked in the past may not necessarily work today (racial segregation, for example, was once thought perfectly fine and justifiable, as was shooting those who ran from No Man's Land during WW1).

And no, there is no difference at all. Context is irrelevant when people are dying. It irritates me often that mankind as a species can be so united in something that is fundamentally so dividing and not recognise the stupidity of it.

And it's not that I can't "lower" myself to violence, I've thrown punches, and I've never run from a fight. Hell, I've never turned my back on one either. I've defended myself when necessary, but never by choice. Were it my choice, yes, I would choose for there to be no violence, I think as a species we are capable of pulling ourselves out of that blood-stained gutter.

I realise this enlightenment is unlikely to occur in my lifetime, however, and that there will always be some need of a defensive force. I want the "bad man" punished, yes, but justice is better found when the defendant is alive, not dead. Every torturer in every concentration camp knew more cruel things can be done to a man while he breathes than while he rots, surely this fact is not lost on us today.

But that does not by any stretch of the imagination mean I want to be in a fighting situation. There is bravery, and then there is stupidity.

And at times I wonder which is more common in this militaristic world.

[Sieg Reyu]

Whereas my opinion is more closely summed up as:

Very few people deserve to die. This guy deserved to rot in a prison cell with naught but the rats for company for the rest of his life.

That was never going to be an option. Even if he'd seen a trial, he'd have gotten the death penalty. No question. I think there's a very strong moralistic argument that an attempt should have been made to bring him to trial, but don't delude yourself into thinking he'd have survived it.

The liklihood of him ever making it to a trial alive would also have been exceedingly slim, given the fact that even the people assigned to guard him would have wanted to see him dead.

-m

*bang**bang*bang**bang**bang**bang*
"What was that?"
"Aw man, all of my bullets slipped out of my gun, and into his brain."
"You're such a klutz. Its why we love you."

*Looney Tunes Wipe*

[Matt]

Whereas my opinion is more closely summed up as:

Very few people deserve to die. This guy deserved to rot in a prison cell with naught but the rats for company for the rest of his life.

That was never going to be an option. Even if he'd seen a trial, he'd have gotten the death penalty. No question. I think there's a very strong moralistic argument that an attempt should have been made to bring him to trial, but don't delude yourself into thinking he'd have survived it.

The liklihood of him ever making it to a trial alive would also have been exceedingly slim, given the fact that even the people assigned to guard him would have wanted to see him dead.

-m

*bang**bang*bang**bang**bang**bang*
"What was that?"
"Aw man, all of my bullets slipped out of my gun, and into his brain."
"You're such a klutz. Its why we love you."

*Looney Tunes Wipe*

*sad trombone*

-m

[Mister Fiend]

Osama bin Laden had been killed,
CAN WE REBUILD THE FUCKING TOWERS NOW GODAMMIT!?!?!?!

[SPACExJUMPxJOSH]

don't want to be heckled but I'm not over joyed, my personal code of ethics that I follow dictate that the takeing of a life is not a valid punishment, or something to take joy in, sorry to be "that douche" but I would have prefered to see him rot in jail : /

[sdhonda]

No.

[EnglishMQ]

Whereas my opinion is more closely summed up as:

Very few people deserve to die. This guy deserved to rot in a prison cell with naught but the rats for company for the rest of his life.

So I'm curious, you don't think Osama deserved to die, but you do think some people deserve to die?

Who deserves death more than Osama? At last check he lacks an evil twin.

And wouldn't the condoning of life long tormet upon a person be worse than killing them, that this person has less moral high ground to stand upon than the man killing him.

[Danzama]

Very few people deserve to die. This guy deserved to die.

+1

[SPACExJUMPxJOSH]

but then again I come from country where there is no death penalty, if he had done it to england and stood trial here, he would have gone to prison for the rest of his life, sorry to anoy the americains here but thats a system of ethics I believe in : /

[Lyinginbedmon]

I've yet to meet a man deserving of death, but with mankind's history it's not unimaginable that such a person exists, existed, or will come into existence at some point. Therefore, "very few", perhaps "almost no-one", though it has less of a ring to it in line with the previous posts.

And yes, it would be worse than killing him. It would be torment, cruel and long-lasting. Just like what he inflicted upon the world.

[Theremin]

Why, in the context of punishment, is torture preferable to killing?

[SPACExJUMPxJOSH]

I mean i have no simpathy for the man, think he is a monster, but I didn't think the americans had the right to take his life, buuuut I would have been first inline if they had also said, "right he will go to prison for the rest of his life, but first we are going to put him in stocks for a few dsys and let people through shit at him"

[Lyinginbedmon]

Why, in the context of punishment, is torture preferable to killing?

Because killing takes a brief moment in compensation for crimes which typically take significantly longer and cause significantly more harm.

Additionally, whilst it may be an effective deterrent, it hardly presents moral high ground when you kill someone because they killed someone.

[EnglishMQ]

Question: When the soldeirs went into the mansion, did they have intention of taking Osama alive. I don't know right now, I'm curious.

On a more hypothetical edge, if the soldiers had planned on taking him alive, would they have realistically been able to capture him, get him back to America and jail him, when a large part of Al Qaeda would be fighting against them as well as many people on the American's side would have been trying to kill him.

I honestly don't think so, he was going to die and the world is definitly better off without him, so who cares, so lets dishonour the pricks memory more so my celebrating.

[Theremin]

@Lying

Killing a murderer is terrible, but instead torturing them for the remainder of their lives somehow makes you the good guy? Wut.

[Lyinginbedmon]

@Lying

Killing a murderer is terrible, but instead torturing them for the remainder of their lives somehow makes you the good guy? Wut.

Torture is extreme I admit, but certainly he no longer deserved to live a comfortable life of any sort.