Extra Credits (now at PATV!)

[njsykora]

Moviebob is saying he's not getting paid either, rather euphemistically but still.

[Niko]

I would have thought that Bob was #2 behind Yahtzee, considering he too has his show and his column.
Is Yahtzee eating up the Escapist's entire budget, or is he not on the payroll either?

[ecks]

Well I hope LRR had some pictures of someone or something

[Lyinginbedmon]

At this point, I'm wondering where the money actually IS.

[njsykora]

The Drinking Games/No Right Answer guys have added their names to the list.

There is no way these are contributors to a company in good financial shape.

I wouldn't be surprised if Yahtzee isn't taking a paycheck right now either, god knows the guy's making enough from the Manabar.

[AlexanderDitto]

Now, obviously I don't know any more than anyone else, and possibly less than everyone else, but...

I read the response, and honestly... it seems to me like The Escapist interpreted "save Extra Credits" in a way that doesn't make sense at all. The RocketHub page made it explicitly clear that the money was to pay for Allison's operation, and prevent her from having to quit, which would have ended Extra Credits. There was no mention of using that money to fund creation of episodes of the show that the Escapist should have been paying for.

I'm going to do something out of character and disagree with you.

The first thing the RocketHub page says is this

Each show costs us far more than we make off of it

We now know this is because the Escapist wasn't paying them at all, which makes the Escapist look like dicks. However, it then says

We need to raise somewhere between $15,000-$20,000 to help her get surgery and hire guest artists for the next few months, otherwise we can't keep doing the show.

Emphasis mine. Now, this doesn't excuse the Escapist not paying them, but I see how someone could interpret this as meaning "We will use the extra money to make more episodes."

I'm not taking sides because either way, something I want to see succeed gets screwed. I'm just making an observation.

Very fair point! I had forgotten about that. All in all I can see how the RocketHub deal could clearly be misinterpreted either way. I'm still of the inclination that it was clear the intent of the fundraiser was to get EC through the trouble that Allison's ailment caused, not to get it through the trouble that The Escapist's financial trouble caused.

Either way, Yax, you the man.

[Fugiman]

I'm guessing paying for full-time employees and server bills. I've never understood how they made a profit off of ad money...

That said, it is remarkably disheartening to hear all these talented people saying that they haven't been paid for their hard work

[JackSlack]

To those who say I backflips... Well, yes. I'm this close to backflipping again on all these people saying they've not been paid, too.

[Yaxley]

Moviebob is saying he's not getting paid either, rather euphemistically but still.

I dunno. I mean...

In fact, I think that there are a lot of people still doing a lot of good work on the site. I don't think they should get any less views

@ExtraCreditz I Am Spartacus

I'm not on the Escapist's side here at all, but that could easily be interpreted as "I do good work and shouldn't lose views over this" as well.

That said, it is remarkably disheartening to hear all these talented people saying that they haven't been paid for their hard work

This. So this. I like a lot of content on the Escapist. The more people who come out saying they aren't being paid just makes me sad. These people deserve compensation.

[Fugiman]

To those who say I backflips... Well, yes. I'm this close to backflipping again on all these people saying they've not been paid, too.

To be fair, we're running off of a LOT of speculation right now. I can't blame you for being indecisive with the amount of facts we have.

EDIT: I Am Spartacus was a line used to show solidarity with an individual, to ensure that blame was equally distributed over a large group. I took it to mean that Moviebob hasn't been paid.

[AlexanderDitto]

To those who say I backflips... Well, yes. I'm this close to backflipping again on all these people saying they've not been paid, too.

To be fair, we're running off of a LOT of speculation right now. I can't blame you for being indecisive with the amount of facts we have.

Remember, everyone; let's try to comply with Matt's wishes and

refrain from too much speculation

We can and should collect the facts and report what's going on on twitter and facebook and on the Escapist, and comment, but speculating will do more harm than good, in the long run.

[KinoGami]

So what took all these other people to come forward in the first place? or is it no one paid attention until it was EC doing the talking?

[Fugiman]

@DTPlaythroughs
@ExtraCreditz I wrote for The Escapist for a couple months. They owe $890 and never respond to my emails. It sucks I'm on your side.

@ExtraCreditz
Anyone else have any dealings with the escapist where they weren't paid?

After that, a torrent of other content creators for the escapist responded saying that they weren't being paid.

[Niko]

So what took all these other people to come forward in the first place? or is it no one paid attention until it was EC doing the talking?

Presumably fear of getting the boot. Having your content posted on a reputable and popular site is a great opportunity, so many people won't want to lose that over a dispute of their payment. They may be under the impression that it will get sorted out eventually, but not realising that others are in the same boat. Now that it's been highlighted as a common issue that may have led to Extra Credits' departure, I guess people are realising that they shouldn't keep quiet.

[ecks]

So what took all these other people to come forward in the first place? or is it no one paid attention until it was EC doing the talking?

It is a bit surprising, but I'm sure they are all under contracts that limit what they can talk about - and if you *ever* want to get paid, well you'd better keep your mouth shut. Once it hits a critical mass I guess people start to think they aren't going to get paid anyways, so ...
Also, no one (other than EC) has really said how far behind they are on payments, if you'd been getting paid for a year and they fall 2 weeks behind, you might be more inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt.

[Master Gunner]

This is why whenever you make a deal, you get it in writing, with everything explicitly laid out as clearly as possible. Otherwise (legally) it goes by how a "reasonable and objective person" would interpret the contract, and as you can see here, that's not always easily agreed on. And if you do work for someone, and they say they're having money trouble...

With the number of people coming out saying that they haven't in paid, that strikes me as the Escapist being in rather severe financial troubles for a prolonged time, and are now in breach of a whole lot of contracts. Ethically, at least, I say that they're at fault, at least for not paying their contributors what was agreed on. As for the RockTheHub thing...I don't know anything about that, and a single (condensed) course on Business Law certainly doesn't qualify me to comment on it.

[Fugiman]

And now Unforgotten Realms joins the ranks of the unpaid...(well they were paid EVENTUALLY, just took over a year)

[njsykora]

Add Unforgotten Realms to the list.

The List
Extra Credits
Moviebob
LeeLee
Drinking Games/No Right Answer
Unforgotten Realms
Allistair Pinsof

[Niko]

Unforgotten Realms ended a long time ago, if The Escapist has been having money troubles that long then surely they shouldn't have been picking up more shows? I'm starting to suspect malicious motives here.

[Trymantha]

this doesnt bode well for Lrr

[Trymantha]

it also explains a lot about the flying Yahtzee to pax deal

[Fugiman]

Yeah, I know LRR won't want to divulge info until this progresses further, but I really hope they haven't been affected by this. With 4(?) shows on the escapist, negligent payments could be a lot of money lost...

[Arius]

Unforgotten Realms ended a long time ago, if The Escapist has been having money troubles that long then surely they shouldn't have been picking up more shows? I'm starting to suspect malicious motives here.

If McDonald's stock drops, they don't stop making cheeseburgers.

[njsykora]

Yeah, I know LRR won't want to divulge info until this progresses further, but I really hope they haven't been affected by this. With 4(?) shows on the escapist, negligent payments could be a lot of money lost...

3, LRR, Unskippable and Pheed Dump.

[AlexanderDitto]

Add Unforgotten Realms to the list.

The List
Extra Credits
Moviebob
LeeLee
Drinking Games/No Right Answer
Unforgotten Realms
Allistair Pinsof

We don't know Moviebob for sure. All he said was "I am Spartacus," which just means he's with them and supports them. It doesn't mean he wasn't paid.

Also, the people on the list vary in terms of how much/how long it took them to be paid, or whether they were paid at all. I don't think lumping them together into one list helps much or clarifies. Perhaps making note of their actual comments alongside would be more helpful?

Yeah, I know LRR won't want to divulge info until this progresses further, but I really hope they haven't been affected by this. With 4(?) shows on the escapist, negligent payments could be a lot of money lost...

Fugiiiiii remember what Matt asked us. Don't be speculatin'! It doesn't do anybody (especially the LRR crew) any good.