Extra Credits (now at PATV!)

[rabidtictac]

I dunno. Don't want to seem like a jerk, but there's a line of people on Twitter saying they haven't been payed by the escapist (or that payment took forever, like, a year of them being owed their paychecks), including Unforgotten Realms. Also I know what legalese sounds like, and that escapist response has plenty of it, plus a lawsuit threat.

Verbal agreements are often not legally binding.The correct response to "you can pay me later" is "Maybe, but I should pay you now because I owe you money for work now." I know, 20/20 hindsight and all that, but most people working for a business in real life would quit if their paychecks were eight months late.

[Trymantha]

i wonder how much traffic this has given the escapist?

[Niko]

We don't know Moviebob for sure. All he said was "I am Spartacus," which just means he's with them and supports them. It doesn't mean he wasn't paid.

Moviebob's tweet was a reply to Extra Credits' one telling fans to continue to support the other contributors, not the one calling for unpaid conributors. I'd be inclined to believe that he was just showing support, but probably getting his dues.

[Arius]

0

Site's gotta be up to get traffic.

[ecks]

it also explains a lot about the flying Yahtzee to pax deal

Can you imagine if that actually went through and they had their big escapist meetup at PAX? Awwwwwwwwwwwwkward.

Have to feel bad about Kathleen and Graham's vacation - riots in england, riots on the escapist. Throw in the hockey riots from before and they'll be lucky if PAX doesn't tell them to stay away

[Chemistring]

Site is up for me. This is not looking pretty for anyone...

[dackwards d]

Unfortunately no matter what the outcome nobody involved is going to come out of this without shit on their boots. Even if the whole thing gets resolved as a simple misunderstanding, even if the EC crew publicly says "it was all just a massive mistake, all problems have been solved, bridges mended and we are going to continue working with our good friends at the Escapist" and even if they actually mean it. Any new contributors will hesitate to sign to the Escapist because of this and hosts may have doubts before signing EC if they became available.

Not that I think it shouldn't have ben brought to light of course. James had the right to make sure eh is getting a fair go. It should never have gotten to this point and no matter what it's going to be a mess.

[Yaxley]

0

Site's gotta be up to get traffic.

Beat me to it. I can't even get on that site. Had to learn about this from social networks. Not that the Escapist itself was the best source of news for this anyway. But their servers appear to be chundering under the load.

[Fugiman]

4(?) shows on the escapist

3, LRR, Unskippable and Pheed Dump.

LRR, Unskippable, Feed Dump (and ENN before it), and (now discontinued) Daily Drop.

Fugiiiiii remember what Matt asked us. Don't be speculatin'! It doesn't do anybody (especially the LRR crew) any good.

I didn't mean to speculate, just to show concern. This has shown to be more than an isolated case, and shows that I've loved and watched regularly have been affected. I just don't want any more bad news

[epocalypse]

Conclusions I've drawn reading all of the updates: in the case of EC, both groups made mistakes, and had good intentions, but the escapist is on the legal misfire. James should not have offered or accepted a knowing breach of contract in advance, and the escapist should not have taken an informal offer as excuse to act in breech of contract for most of a year these are mistakes that young entrepreneurs and artists are likely to make in new media, but ones which cost the publisher more. The escapist is not an intentionally unethical video magazine, and did not want to do wrong by EC or anyone else, but they are apparently incompetent and legally responsible. This spells bad news for the escapist. I'm not sure if they'll be able to stay solvent for long, and not because of this, but because of what appears to be gross fiscal mismanagement.

This is depressing. It'd be easier to take if they had Machiavellian inclinations, but instead it seems like the money dried up with the economy and they made very bad business decisions.

Side note concerning our main men and women here, the LRR crew: from their statement in this thread via Matt, (which was very good and loyal to the ideals the community holds and the personal and professional interests of the crew) to the way they handled their business arrangements in general, LRR has handled this situation just about as well as possible. Since they still own their main, non-format show (the Loading Ready Run videos) and were only licensing them, and also have series from Checkpoint to Crapshots that work independently of the escapist, they avoid most of the worst outcomes and turmoil that can evolve from IP disagreement, because LRR owns most of it's essential IP. Format Shows (like ENN, Checkpoint and Feed Dump) can be restructured easily so as to survive in a new form without breeching IP agreements, even Unskippable might be able to be reincarnated in a new form elsewhere. So LRR is acting exactly correct here, and seems to have acted more wisely than many of the other contributors. There exactly right not to take sides at this point, so no one try and force them to.

Here's hoping that this improves the situation for most on both sides and requires the minimum amount of loss.

[Jamfalcon]

Grey Carter of Critical Miss appearently has been getting paid:

I need to chime in here. While the Critical Miss team have been getting paid, we do support those who haven't. Go team hobo.

[AlexanderDitto]

Fugiiiiii remember what Matt asked us. Don't be speculatin'! It doesn't do anybody (especially the LRR crew) any good.

I didn't mean to speculate, just to show concern. This has shown to be more than an isolated case, and shows that I've loved and watched regularly have been affected. I just don't want any more bad news

I know, I know. I feel you, man. The whole situation sucks.

Update: Lisa Foiles just tweeted

Top 5 Reasons I Support @ExtraCreditz: …Oh wait, that list would definitely be more than 140 characters.

What we know: Top 5 With Lisa Foiles was on "hiatus" as of June 2:

I didn’t want to stop making Top 5s, but neither did The Escapist. It’s… complicated. There are some behind-the-scenes issues with the show being produced currently, and I can assure you it’s not my fault.

Source

Whatever happened there, it seems the Escapist had some difficulty with Top 5.

What I just realized: Lisa Foiles was on All That, Seasons 7-10. Along with Jack DeSena. Jack DeSena, who played the voice of SOKKA ON AVATAR THE LAST AIRBENDER

AAaaaaugh every famous person knows every other famous person.

[ecks]

Well I guess they weren't paying their in house staff on time either

@Unaz
I'm constantly amazed at how rich people think we are. I'm also constantly saddened at how often we don't get payed or get payed months late

This guy http://twitter.com/#!/Unaz from a while ago, I think he is their server guy

[edit: that suprised guy looks more like he has a big grin. damn you emoticons!]

[Arius]

Well I guess they weren't paying their in house staff on time either

@Unaz
I'm constantly amazed at how rich people think we are. I'm also constantly saddened at how often we don't get payed or get payed months late

This guy http://twitter.com/#!/Unaz from a while ago, I think he is their server guy

He also said:

The amount of hate spewing from the @extracreditz guys is staggering. I love seeing the people I work to keep online throw it in my face.

(I think he's got stockholm syndrome.)
http://twitter.com/#!/Unaz/status/101116105820606465

[taza]

This guy http://twitter.com/#!/Unaz from a while ago, I think he is their server guy

Confirming that he is.

[Stroggo]

It's becoming very clear that both E.C. and the Escapist fudged the details on what to do with the extra fund-raiser money. And given that a number of current and past Escapist contributors have begin speaking up lends a bit of insight. If the Escapist were in financial trouble, its more likely they would be twitchy around any loose cash, with only a shaky idea of where it was going.

Everything else is a matter of too little information too soon.

(P.S. I'm back )

[Master Gunner]

If they're having problems paying their own in-house employees, something is seriously wrong with their business model and practices. Of course, they are stuck in a bit of a bind on that front. If they can't draw in the viewers to pay their server guy, then they clearly need extra revenue (as they can't exactly cut the server guy), and for them that means new content, which costs money that they don't have to pay for. And given how tenuous ad-based internet revenue streams are, the risk on any new content is extremely high.

[Trymantha]

yeah something is defintly not right over at the escapist place that i think we can all agree on

[JackSlack]

If they're having problems paying their own in-house employees, something is seriously wrong with their business model and practices.

Yeah. Really, this may be the worst thing for the Escapist out of all this mess: It's clear how financially insecure they are now.

[tak197]

RE: LRR Getting Paid, we are definitely concerned about them, but you have to remember, most every one of the crew are at least working part time for LRR and part time for other entities. Plus you add in the preorders and the LRR store, and you have the crew's current financial situation. What that actually looks like, honestly, is up to the crew to tell us, and I don't think they really need to tell us more than they have so far.

HOWEVER, I have noticed a bit of a slide downhill in the Escapist as of recent. It seems like the content that I watch has been the same quality, but the surrounding stuff has waned. At the same time, I feel as though PATV may be the up and coming content site with the Escapist going downhill.

I am not speculating on LRR's status, but I will say that I am saddened that this is all happening.

[AlexanderDitto]

If they're having problems paying their own in-house employees, something is seriously wrong with their business model and practices. Of course, they are stuck in a bit of a bind on that front. If they can't draw in the viewers to pay their server guy, then they clearly need extra revenue (as they can't exactly cut the server guy), and for them that means new content, which costs money that they don't have to pay for. And given how tenuous ad-based internet revenue streams are, the risk on any new content is extremely high.

But contracting a bunch of new content creators, promising to pay them, and then not doing so is not the way to go about doing it. That means you're too big for your britches.

It's becoming very clear that both E.C. and the Escapist fudged the details on what to do with the extra fund-raiser money. ...

Everything else is a matter of too little information too soon.

(P.S. I'm back )

I think this is an accurate summary of the situation.

Also welcome back!

[epocalypse]

I want to make clear I wasn't speculating about LRR's actions or intent above (and in fact was trying to encouraging others not to). I am simply stating that their position as people who are licensing out content they own for their series with the most the most character story content and otherwise generating format-based sattire, commentary, and parody in their other escapist hosted series is a less troublesome one to be in than one like EC's, where they essentially sold their IP to the escapist. I say this as a private individual and an artist and content creator myself, and simply to remind people that LRR (Bionic Trousers Media) is an independent production company that works with, among other companies, the escapist, and not a part of the escapist itself. I hope it's kosher to have said that and this, and don't plan on bringing up LRR anymore in this thread.

[Tycherin]

If they're having problems paying their own in-house employees, something is seriously wrong with their business model and practices. Of course, they are stuck in a bit of a bind on that front. If they can't draw in the viewers to pay their server guy, then they clearly need extra revenue (as they can't exactly cut the server guy), and for them that means new content, which costs money that they don't have to pay for. And given how tenuous ad-based internet revenue streams are, the risk on any new content is extremely high.

But contracting a bunch of new content creators, promising to pay them, and then not doing so is not the way to go about doing it. That means you're too big for your britches.

Theoretically, you could hire a bunch of new people, hope that they bring in lots of revenue, and then use that money to pay them. But that would be dumb, and also kinda like a pyramid scheme. So I guess I agree with your assessment.

What I find interesting about this whole debacle is the speed at which it's happened, as well as where it's happened. This started - what, earlier today? And a lot of the information that's been going around has come from Facebook and Twitter. I guess this is the future right here. Everybody knows everything instantly.

Personally, I'm hoping the emails they're going to release will clear things up.

[Wraith]

The only reason I ever go there is for LRR content. I have a pub club membership because it allows me podcast access, which means magical video goodies show up on my phone to watch on my lunch breaks.

In other words, this is infuriating on principle, and I understand what extra credits is going through. But at the end of the day, I'm with LRR. They're how I discovered TE, they're the sole reason I GO to TE, and if they leave, I'll leave with them. But untill then, I'm going to keep going and hoping they treat LRR better.

[semysane]

Our situation is less developed than @ExtraCreditz but we are headed down the same route.

https://twitter.com/#!/GameResponsibly/status/101122778794688513