Menswear

[Metcarfre]

WIWT; Plaid shirt (red, white, and blue, because it's the 4th of July, you see), gray cotton sweater, dark jeans;

[theDreamer]

Actually, that brings to mind: what the fuck should I wear to my first day on the job?

I'm used to working in restaurants (I walked in on the first day of training in the same thing I wore to the interview, a button down short sleeve, nice pants, and nice shoes. Official uniforms for wear after that were either black pants and a specific oxford button down they supplied, or black/grey/dark brown pants with dull red/brown kind of shirts, plain T's or button), stores (again, a nice short sleeve button down and slacks, to slacks and their specific shirt), a summer camp (graphic T-Shirt with "counsellor" and shorts was basically needed).

Starting Jan. 2 I will be in a corporate environment, working IT.

At the interview I wore a blue button down, an awesome tie, grey slacks, and my nice shoes. Of the three interviewers, one had a suit jacket that he had taken off and a tie. The others were wearing button downs but no ties.

First day will obviously be training, but what is appropriate?

[plummeting_sloth]

I'd say stick with your interview attire for the first day (looks like a good middle ground from your interviewers) then just make it a point to see what other people on or about your same corporate level are wearing. I doubt you're going to massively over or undershoot with a shirt and tie and nobody but yourself is really going to remember if you dressed a little off on your first day.

[Metcarfre]

I have to disagree slightly, I think you should only wear a tie if you also have a jacket or sweater to go over it.

Dressing for an IT job is one of those fraught issues. On the one hand, you have to dress professionally, because it's a business environment. OTOH, you have to be mindful that you may be doing physical work that requires full motion, for example tearing apart user's cables and fixing servers (I don't know - I'm not an IT guy, obviously). I know I plug Put This On a lot, but they have a good couple posts on this very subject.

My recommendation? Gray slacks, button-down shirt (full sleeve), nice shoes with matching belt. Make sure everything fits well and you're comfortable. Judging by the attire of your interviewers, that should be appropriate at least for the first day.

My personal most casual look at work would be nice jeans, decent shoes, and a full-sleeve button - maybe, just maybe, a nice polo.

Edit; Oh yeah, that PTO post has one of my favourite quotes-

It amazes me that geeks - the very same people who got picked on for non-conformity in their school days - so often insist on conformity in the workplace. To say nothing of the fact that the conformity they often demand is “we’re all equally slovenly.”

[Master Gunner]

I've worked in 4 or so different IT departments for various companies, and for every one, the appropriate professional attire is slacks/chinos, button up shirt, and proper shoes. Polos are generally acceptable as well, and one can often get away with dark jeans on the odd occasion. A good sportcoat or blazer would put you up a bit, but not be too out of place to draw comment. There's nothing wrong with wearing a tie on your first day, as you figure the place out and try to make a good first impression, but odds are no one else will be wearing one (at my most recent job, that included the CIO of a federal government department on days when he was just in the office).

[theDreamer]

It should be noted this is the office building centre of plumbers and electricians.

Yeah, turns out they have cubicles or something when they aren't in your house fixing stuff.

[Avistew]

Thanks for the link and pics, Matt

I guess I'm biased in that I don't really like suits. I see them as corporate uniforms so if I was introduced to someone wearing one outside of a work context I would probably get the first impression that they're snooty and snobby and self-centered. And hell if I was hiring I'm probably the kind of person who would think "you should spend less time getting dressed and more time working".

I like dressing up, but it's a kind of party/convention/super special event thing for me.

On the other hand, if I meet someone wearing a print shirt, I figure "they're a fan of this" and that gives us something to talk about. Actually, I agree that print shirts showcase your interests while suits showcase you. I'm just not a big fan of people showcasing themselves. I understand that's necessary in work environments but otherwise, I want the first impression I give to be about the kind of person I am. I already have my body to show what I look like, I want clothes to show the rest.

I guess that's why I have that bias against suit, actually. It seems to me they give the message "appearances are more important than personality". I do realise it's a bias, but one it's hard to get rid of.

[gcninja]

You know who's got you all beat?
This guy

[Metcarfre]

Why this matters.
June 4, 2010
by Jesse

jasonbaldwin:

joeblubaugh:

"putthison:

I can’t make you dress like a grown-up. If you don’t want to, don’t. Just remember that if you don’t command respect, you won’t be respected."

The amount of pushback Jesse gets just for sharing his ideas on the internet never ceases to astound me. The man is a testament to pursuing your passions, and I would think that even people who don’t care would recognize that and give him some room.

But here’s the thing: I can (and do) respect Jesse and his ideas while vehemently disagreeing with him. Equating something as silly as clothing with commanding respect only earns you the superficial sort of respect given by those paying attention to what you’re wearing. I don’t care what people like that think of me, because if they stop at the clothes on my back, they’re exactly the sort of person I don’t want anything to do with.

Let me say that both Joe and Jason are great supporters and good dudes, so my respect and thanks go to both of them. I have to disagree with Jason, though, as you might expect.

First of all, presuming that aesthetics are only “superficial” is a horrible mistake. Our sense of aesthetics is one of the things that makes us human. I appreciate the beauty that people create in the world every day. It’s one of my greatest joys. I would never dream of suggesting that aesthetic choices are superficial, whether they be in the form of art, architecture, design, clothing or even language. Beauty is important.

Secondly, clothing has much more content than just aesthetics. Clothing is a way we represent ourselves to others. This self-representation couldn’t be more significant. When you dress, you are making a statement; not a fashion statement, but a statement of identity. If you put on a jacket and tie, for example, you are signifying to others that you take the occasion seriously, whatever that occasion may be. If someone looks at you and interprets how you dress, they are not being superficial. They are reading the message that you wrote. If that message says, “I am to be respected,” then they will respect you. The language of clothing is as complex as the spoken word, but ignorance of it is no excuse. Can one earn respect in other ways? Certainly, and one should. But that’s no reason to open a conversation with someone by saying, without words, “this is not important to me.”

The mistake Jason seems to be making is to assume that someone who would read the language of clothing would “stop at the clothes on [his] back.” That’s, of course, absurd. It’s like saying that no one should pursue literature because if they learned to write, they’d only impress people who didn’t pay attention to anything besides silly words on a page.

We have many tools to communicate and create beauty. Some are better at wielding some, some better at wielding others. If you choose to pursue one to the exclusion of another, that’s your choice. But don’t tell me that I’m silly for pursuing those I care most about.
#

(link)

...Dressing well is both a personal and social act, and you do it not only to communicate your personality, but also please others around you - your boss, secretary, client, family, friends, and your significant other. It’s not enough to achieve one of these things alone. If it were, dressing well would be easy.

This is where classic men’s style actually has value - it’s an approach to dressing that tries to consider everyone involved. For example, through a suit, a modern man is able to communicate to his boss that he’s responsible; to his clients that he’s professional; to his friends that he’s sophisticated; and to his date that he’s romantic...

(link)

[Avistew]

Why this matters.
June 4, 2010
by Jesse
[...]It’s like saying that no one should pursue literature because if they learned to write, they’d only impress people who didn’t pay attention to anything besides silly words on a page.[...]

I understand the guy's point, but I have to disagree with his comparison. It's like saying someone shouldn't bother writing in elaborate writing and can just type it because what matters is the words and not how elaborate they look.

I don't suggest people run away naked, but I judge clothing based on practicality and what it communicates to me. A suit in a date doesn't communicate to me "I take you seriously". It communicates to me "I took longer than you getting ready. I either have a very high image of myself or a very low one."
A star Trek shirt communicates to me "I like Star Trek". Possible second message "Hey, I bothered finding a conversation starter for the two of us on our date so it isn't awkward for either of us."

I'm suddenly feeling like I need to explain the suit one. The high image is because he likes himself enough to spend that much time looking at himself in a mirror. The low image is because he probably feel he needs to "dress up" to impress me, meaning he believe he doesn't think he has anything going for himself.

So yeah, coming to a date in a suit, not romantic to me. But hey, that just proves your milleage may vary.

Oh, hey, third potential message from the suit guy: "I dropped by directly from work and I work in a very formal enviroment." I guess this one isn't a bad thing, so if he arrived telling me just that, I'd be fine with the suit.

Anyways. In the end it doesn't really matter, it's just the first impression. As the quote said, it doesn't mean you don't get an idea of who the person is during the date itself.

[Metcarfre]

I find it very easy to say, "I like Star Trek", in conversation.

I find it very difficult to say, "I like how I look, like what I'm wearing, and feel very confident because of it" in conversation.

[Avistew]

That's a good point on the first one, although you don't always think to say things like that.

On your second point though, I don't see why you couldn't wear a Star Trek shirt and still like how you look, what you are wearing and feel confident because of it. This isn't expressed by what you wear but how you wear it.

[Matt]

I'm suddenly feeling like I need to explain the suit one. The high image is because he likes himself enough to spend that much time looking at himself in a mirror. The low image is because he probably feel he needs to "dress up" to impress me, meaning he believe he doesn't think he has anything going for himself.

That strikes me as astonishingly cynical.

Like, I don't even know what to say to that.



-m

[DericWadleigh]

So would you prefer a suit to a date or a slept in, uncaring, mess of clothes? You know, I don't really care if the girls get all dolled up for me, but i feel like i'm lettin' em down if I don't at least put on something mildly nice.

[Duckay]

So would you prefer a suit to a date or a slept in, uncaring, mess of clothes? You know, I don't really care if the girls get all dolled up for me, but i feel like i'm lettin' em down if I don't at least put on something mildly nice.

Well, on the one hand, there is a middle-ground between a suit and a slept-in mess. And I would certainly be taken aback by a man in a suit on a date because I would worry about what he thought about my wardrobe, especially if I were expecting something more casual.

But on the other hand, I would also be impressed and I very much agree that being well-dressed sends the message of sophistication and responsibility, and I can't argue with that.

So once again, I feel like I am down the middle of this discussion.

[DericWadleigh]

I suppose I really can't talk. For the last six years I've worn hawaiian shirts, shorts and sandals from the local Value Village (A thrift store) year round. Mind you, I live in spokane, so the winters don't get that bad, but we do at least get a foot of snow. I love being nigh-impervious to the cold. It makes people around me freeze. 8-3

[King Kool]

Yeah, anyone watching Desert Bus could probably tell that I don't really take much care in how I dress. I might upgrade it, but that would require money that could be far more productive in other places like upgrading my video equipment or getting a new pair of glasses.

With the apparent popularity of the dark thick-rimmed glasses that I see everyone wearing now, that shows me that I don't know shit about fashion. If someone was going to judge me based on how I dressed, I'd honestly rather they get the impression that I don't give a crap about it. At least that's accurate.

[Avistew]

I think I would care about basic hygiene so I wouldn't want someone who smells bad, be it their clothes or not. As for messy clothes... Well I've never ironed any of my clothes, so you know, I'd probably think they're a good match for me. This being said if their clothes are all... not-folded it could mean they're tidier than me and can take care or the cleaning

Ultimately neither the suit nor the mess of clothes would cause me to stand up and leave. One would make me feel underdressed though, and the other one overdressed. So both would probably result in me feeling awkward and thinking we have different expectations. I'd wait until we've talked about stuff during the date to see if that's true though.

This is all super-theretical for me by the way. My usual modus operandi is to tell a guy I'm in love with him them, then if they feel the same way become a couple, and then go on dates with them. So I would know their wardrobe already. And if they showed up in different clothes I've known them in, I would probably point out I feel in love with the guy I interacted with and they shouldn't try to be someone else.

So I'm not the target audience anyway. The mere idea of going on a date with someone I'm not in a serious relationship with seems likes more work and trouble than anything. I only know of it from sitcoms and used to think it was one of these "TV-only" things that has nothing to do with real life.

I guess I've had dates with friends or friends with benefits though, but I can't remember caring about what any of them wore.

Anyways, we should probably get part to the picture posting, that's the most enjoyable part of this thread, seeing what people actually wear. I wonder if we should open a womenswear thread too.

[DericWadleigh]

Whooops, sorry. On average, this is my daily wear.

[Metcarfre]

Well, that's certainly a thing. But your avatar wears a suit...

But I digress. A well-dressed man - as opposed to a man merely wearing a suit - should always dress for the occasion and the company he expects to find.

If your date consists of some beers and pizza, and then a round in the arcade, wearing a suit inappropriate.

If your date consists of dinner at Le Chez Boutique Fancie [sic], followed by the opera, wearing a t-shirt would be inappropriate.

And regardless of the above, despite many people's love of the graphic tee, I believe men are best served by dressed simply and well. But then, I'm a minimalist.

[theDreamer]

I guess I should mention my own daily dress.

When at school(since "at work" is still a nebulous thing):
Jeans, a graphic t (ranging from "witty", to geeky, to drama related), and sneakers. Sometimes I put on a sweater (zip up, hooded or not), and sometimes I put on a now too small dress shirt(I have a few, mostly white and blue, dull tones which to help achieve I wash a few times), and roll up the sleeves. Unbuttoned. For jackets I have either a peacoat (which in the dead of winter gets coupled with leather gloves, a plain black toque OR a toque in the shape of a tiger with a giant nose and danglies, and my awesome scarf, previously posted), a brown suede one, or my "rubber duckie" a long, yellow, trenchcoat impervious to wind and water. Like an old gruff sailor thing.

[Metcarfre]

WIWT; Brown cords, white OCBD, green mock-neck lambswool sweater.

[iamafish]

my day-to-day attire (I'm at uni, so I don't really wear much different for 'work') is a fairly loose-fitting pair of jeans, a t-shirt (usually with something witty or an amusing reference on), a zip-neck fleece (usually unzipped), Brown casual shoes which are a little tatty, but intentionally so, a brown belt, possibly a black 'metallic fabric' jacket if it's cold (usually unzipped), possibly a navy and grey scarf with red ends if it's really cold (and jacket zipped). I rarely wear gloves or a beanie, because I look rubbish in them/don't have any good hats or gloves.

If I'm having a tutorial, or meeting with someone important, or feel like dressing a little more smartly, I wear polos, usually plain but pretty colourful, with the top button undone, but none of the others (despite my manly chest hair). I might even wear a shirt for going out somewhere or for something especially important, or just because. There are usually striped, but not especially fancy, or even especially colourful. Again, top button undone, but not the rest.

Come summer, (weather permitting) the jeans will be switched with shorts that go just beyond the knees and flip-flips

[Metcarfre]

Oh man. Menswear nerds go apeshit about guys wearing flip flops. Fair warning.

[iamafish]

i see no problem with it. they're comfortable, if you have a decent pair, they look fine, and frankly all these people with their rules can go to hell.