Menswear

[Keab42]

All of my current shirts are some form of no/easy iron material. At least these are cotton instead of the ones that throw nylon or polyester in the mix.

[Matt]

Ahaha, I knew that rant was coming.

-m

[Avistew]

Aeralis, any way we could have pictures, preferably with you in the outfit, but otherwise of the individual pieces?

[Aeralis]

I won't have the vest back until tomorrow morning, but I can get pics of the shirt and pants up in a little bit.

I have a white shirt, but not a grey tie. I'm also basing the color scheme of the outfit off of the ceremonial birthday sombrero I will be forced* into wearing, which is black with silver trim. It should also be noted that my goal isn't to look super nice and respectable, just classy enough to be slightly overdressed for the arcade we're going to after dinner.

*I say forced, but I'm really mostly willing, as it is amazingly gaudy and awesome.

[Matt]

Dude, if you're wearing anything other than sweatpants you're slightly overdressed for the arcade.

Wear the white shirt.

Too much black will be severe as fuck.

-m

[Metcarfre]

White shirt. No tie is cool.

[theDreamer]

Wearing black is cool, no matter what met might think.

Wearing black with NO COLOR ANYWHERE ELSE is not cool.

Me, I like to pair black with a bright primary color.

I also like to pair dull primary colors with brighter versions of the same, and aubergine thinks I look like an idiot when I do (I'm generally talking a dull blue button down with a LRR shirt underneath, kind of thing, so you can see the collar).

[Dutch guy]

General rule of thumb is to have the pants slightly lighter coloured from the "top" afaik (Jacket and or waistcoat). I would go with a charcoal color. Black is really not suitable for "normal" wear imho.

When it comes to mixing dull and brighter colours, generally it doesn't look all too good.

[taza]

I like to pair black clothing with black clothing. If I don't look like a cut-out void in the fabric of space, something's wrong.

If you're dressing aiming to overdress, looking like you're supposed to be at a funeral is not a bad thing. I recommend either dry wit or a very deadpan delivery of The Aristocrats to go with it.

[Metcarfre]

I think at some point Oprah probably said "Did you know black is slimming?", and everybody was like, "Whelp, that's my colour then."

[Aeralis]

Gah, sorry for the delay. I got sidetracked by birthday stuffs.



The black in the shirt is a little more visible normally, but not by much. If a splash of color would be good, I also have this awesome tie I could wear. It's black with light and dark blue robots all over it, with enough coverage to give the tie much more of a blue look than black.

I'm leaving to pick up the vest now, so I can get some full outfit pics going a little later.

[Metcarfre]

OK, that shirt reads more gray than black. I still think it's too dark overall, but it should be fine in the evening at an arcade.

FWIW, if you're looking for some inspiration for non-suit-and-tie stuff, this thread on styleforum is really good.

[AlexanderDitto]

FWIW, if you're looking for some inspiration for non-suit-and-tie stuff, this thread on styleforum is really good.

Some of those are good, but some of them have really, really terrible fit. (In particular, whoever "olddog/oldtrix" is; those shirts are all huge.) I would also not wear a bright green sweater with purple pants, and I don't get what the deal is with people rolling up the bottoms of their chinos, as though they're going to go dig for clams in Nantucket Bay or something.

On the other hand, this man



can marry me immediately.

[Avistew]

I think at some point Oprah probably said "Did you know black is slimming?", and everybody was like, "Whelp, that's my colour then."

It was popular way before Oprah. Why do you think people keep saying "X is the new black?"

I remember in high school, once I wore something that wasn't black. Can't remember what it was. One of my teachers stopped me in the hall and said "You're not wearing all black!"
He seemed pretty shocked. I had never noticed I wore that much black. It's just a nice neutral colour and I don't like bright or pastel colours. Black and grey are my colours. I find white depressing so I don't wear it that much.

[Aeralis]

Here we go. The finished product. Please don't ask about the "bowtie."

[Metcarfre]

Here's some good looks I found on the MC Casual thread - for your consideration.(img heavy).

Vests;


Jackets;




Sweaters;

[Metcarfre]

@ Ditto; Interesting. Because I hate that guy's look. Black watch - hate. Collar gap. Stupid bow tie. Low rise on chinos. Lapels are weird, but otherwise the jacket fits well.

@ Aeralis; You said you got that vest tailored? Maybe you should take it back. To me, it looks way too loose on you.

[AlexanderDitto]

Here we go. The finished product. Please don't ask about the "bowtie."

Agree with Met. No way that's tailored; it's huge on you. It shouldn't peak at the shoulders like that, and it looks like the gorge is way, way too high for a vest.

And Met, are we looking at the same picture? Because the picture I'm looking at the guy's not wearing a watch, and doesn't have collar gap.

Are you sure you understand what collar gap is? This is collar gap:



It's at and around the back of the collar of the shirt, and reflects a poor fit. The guy I posted's jacket fits extremely well.

As for not liking bow ties: bow ties are cool. (I think they look striking on skinny guys. Where a tie would make them look even longer and thinner, the bow tie helps fill them out a bit.) And the length on his chinos seems fine; they break once, above his shoe, as they should (well, OK, they break at the knee, too, but they wouldn't if they were straightened out) (and they're not rolled up. REMARKABLE.)

It may be that you think things are "off" because he's tall and really thin, and his proportions are different than, say, yours or mine.

[Metcarfre]

You have misunderstood me entirely.

Black Watch - the pattern of the jacket, which is based on the pattern of a UK/Commonwealth Highland military unit's tartan.

Collar gap - the gap between the shirt collar and jacket lapel.


Low rise - I have no problem with length/break, but rise. The chinos have a low rise, like (poor) jeans; the distance between the crotch and top of the pants is too short. They should sit at the hips/waist, rather than below them.

Bow tie - I don't dislike bow ties. I dislike that bow tie. Whatever pattern that is... I don't like it.

[Matt]

Met, I may have missed this: do you hate black watch because it's tacky to wear a tartan with such cultural significance, or for another reason?

-m

[Metcarfre]

Both that, and that my tumblr stream is completely overwhelmed by #menswear blags drooling over the latest item someone redid in the pattern. It's getting so overdone you should be able to purchase Black Watch UFC-branded hoodies at your local Target in the fall.

[AlexanderDitto]

I didn't know the name of that particular tartan. Whoops! Well, I think it looks good, and I honestly don't care what the people on your tumblr stream think. If it looks good, it looks good. It's ridiculous to suddenly hate something just because it's En Vogue, akin to hating a band because it's too popular.

The cultural significance thing I suppose I understand. Then again: it's a geometric pattern, not some holy icon. In particular, tartan patterns didn't start being associated with specific clans until the mid 19th century, if I remember correctly. Before then they were just regional things, byproducts of limitations on what color dyes were available in your areas and how the weavers in your region liked to weave. It's not even a religious thing. I don't understand why anyone would be beholden to that anymore. But perhaps I'm just culturally insensitive.

As to collar gap: again, from the article you reference:

"You want the line of your coat’s neck to follow the line of your shirt collar around your neck. When it doesn’t, you get a gap. A gap is particularly bad in the back of the neck. where the collar of the jacket should be in contact with your shirt collar, and naturally sit about half an inch below the top of the collar."

Look at the picture you posted. The top arrow shows a significant gap between the edge of the jacket and the actual collar of the shirt. There's no point of contact. The jacket never actually touches the collar of the shirt. That's collar gap.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I didn't think this meant your suit had to follow your collar all the way down to the point of the collar. If so, the gorge on every jacket would have to be so narrow that there'd barely be room for a tie. Like, here:



There's no collar gap there. How would you even make a jacket with a gorge narrow enough to follow the collar all the way down to the points?

I also don't understand that PTO article fawning over the picture of Cary Grant, where he's obviously sitting down, and the jacket is being pushed up, far higher than his shirt collar. The article says "There’s also a bit of shirt visible at the back of the neck," except in the Cary Grant picture, there isn't. If you were looking at him from behind, his jacket would be above the top of his shirt collar (again, I'm guessing because he's sitting down and leaning forward slightly).

I should have known better than read any of those style boards you linked. Honestly, the more I read, the more they just seem like a giant wank-fest. Nothing is ever right. Things should be shorter or longer or someone doesn't like the fit of this or that, the color is flat or gaudy or the texture of that tie doesn't match this pocket square. It's a never-ending carousel of complaints. This isn't directed at you, Met. I'm just realizing that reading these things, I'm getting flustered for no reason, and I think that's why. I think I'm going to steer clear from now on.

People should just learn why things are the way they are ("the rules," I guess), and then wear what they like, what they think looks good, rules and fashion and whatever be damned. At least then if you're breaking a rule, it's not out of ignorance, but a conscious decision.

[Metcarfre]

"First learn the rules, then break them."

I'm not sure if I need to keep putting big ol' "I think", "my opinion", "IMHO", etc. Most of this is just my preference. If it's something that's common/accepted knowledge and/or 'the rules', I shall indicate so.

The collar gap thing; the gap betwixt lapel and collar (in front) is still part of it. Less so than in the back, yes, but still part of it. True, if you pin a club collar, or use button-downs, it may be difficult if not impossible to avoid. I still dislike it.

The tartan thing has to do with respect for the military (and a specific unit), not some cultural rigidity. I have a number of Campbell tartan ties without being a Campbell.

[AlexanderDitto]

Wait, certain units of the military have adopted them? I didn't know that. I'm going to have to do more research on this.

[Lord Chrusher]

The dark blue and green tartan was issued in the early eighteenth century to a regiment that came to be known as the 'Black Watch'. Other Commonwealth units and Clan Campbell would later adopt the same tartan. As the senior Highland regiment with a long list of battle honours the name of the tartan became synonymous with the regiment.