The depressing depression thread

[Dutch guy]

Sup Dutch?

I've been sinking into another low lately. I'm becoming disorganised, distracted and chaotic and my brain keeps jumping from one thought to another. I need to get stuff finished around the house so I can move on to the next step but things are slow going and I can't seem to motivate myself. The inability to focus my brain on a task properly doesn't help either. I've been sleeping way too little, going to bed way to late, then being tired all day because I have to get up at 6 in the morning and then not going to bed on time again. It's a vicious circle and I can't seem to break it. I'd been losing weight over the last months (finally) but in the last week I gained 2 kg because I've not been eating properly. I feel like shit because I'm tired and then feel even more like shit when I'm still up at 1 am having done nothing of what I had planned to do that day.

To top it off yesterday when driving away from working I got distracted when passing the security checkpoint by the guard waving or something, didn't notice the gate closing (one of those large automated sliding gates) and rammed into it. Luckily at a sedate pace. But now my car bumper has a nasty scratch in it and it remains to be seen how my employer reacts to this incident. Mostly I'm just glad I didn't hit a person, I was too tired to be driving a car really but the weather was shit and I drove there in the morning so didn't really have much choice.

I though I was getting this whole "being an adult" thing under control but lately I've been sliding into imposter syndrome territory again. I'm unsure about anything that I do. I am supposed to be switching jobs in april (moving from my current position that involves lots of manual labour to a design/development job more in line with my education) but I've been feeling more and more anxious about it.

I just hate my brain sometimes.




PS: Sorry Empath I borrowed your emoticon. Hope you don't mind.

[Lord Chrusher]

Being an adult is a lot of bother.

[Phi]

Being an adult is a lot of bother.

It is, but it also gives you the relative freedom to make something additional out of it.

[My pseudonym is Ix]

Dutch: sort out the sleep thing first, it will make the rest easier. I like to set two alarms, the second one to tell me to go to bed in the evening- for me, I like to be in bed by quarter past ten if I'm up at six the next day. If you find it difficult to stick to an alarm, then I would suggest getting one of those timer wheels so you can cut power to your PC from (say) 10:30 onwards- trust me when I say that will motivate you to log off early!

Concentrate on sleep patterns above all else for a minimum of five days, and then you can start worrying about getting stuff done. I would personally focus on the food thing as a second priority, but you might have other more pressing issues.

[MrL]

Try to stay away from the bed and/or bedroom during the day. This will force your brain ascociate the bed with sleeping, thus making you tired when going to bed. Hope it helps.

[RytelCSF]

I wish I had a valid reason not to hate myself.

[JustAName]

I always worked from the position that I'd need a reason to hate a person, not a reason not to. So I can understand not thinking you have a reason to like yourself (although I would argue with that point should you make it), but not having a reason not to hate yourself? Is that really your starting point?

[RytelCSF]

It's not, but I've accumulated plenty of reasons to hate myself, so it effectively is.

[auberginequeen]

I'm collapsing this so as not to disrupt the existing discussion.

Click to Expand

My depression is getting worse for some reason. For a couple years now I haven't enjoyed my prior hobbies. I just do them to pass the time. I still procrastinate. I didn't have the energy today to leave the house. Nothing feels good.

On the weekend I was crushed by the guilt of 1. showing up to my bf's house late, 2. spending my time there asleep or working, 3. my sex drive being all but dead, 4. having to work next Monday instead of hanging out with him, and 5. wasting our weekend as a consequence. Now it's Tuesday and I wish I was back there even though at the time I wasn't happy to be there. It's not him, it's me. I can't stop being miserable.

I hate myself more than ever for no obvious reason and have resorted to negative feelings like pain or hunger in order to feel something. I got super drunk at his parents' house and threw up (in the bathroom, and none of his family noticed, so that's good). I attended a meeting yesterday where I had a hard time holding it together. I told everyone I was just sick.

He says this stuff doesn't bother him but I know it does, especially the no-sex-drive part. I think he takes it personally even though it's not his fault. He keeps asking what changed between when we started dating 3 years ago, where we'd do it like 2x a week, and now, where it's maybe once every few weeks. He asks if I'm still attracted to him. It's not him, it's me - I just can't feel lust. We tried on Sunday but I ended up crying because I was so mad at myself for being a shit girlfriend. I just can't stand myself and I don't want to be vulnerable around anyone and I don't know why anyone puts up with me. Every time I see him it takes like a day for my shields to come down so we can have a real human connection, and we have so little time together that it's a huge waste. I'm afraid I'll lose him.

People have been drawing attention to my tendency to complain a lot and that hurt too. I just feel like shit all the time and verbalizing it makes me feel a little better, but I guess I do it too much. That and my humour is growing increasingly dark, cynical, and even cruel thanks to my frame of mind, and everyone seems put off by it. I don't have many people I can actually talk to anymore.

They wanted to put me on SSRIs but I've taken meds before and it's changed who I was, how I thought, and not in a good way. I want to be happier but I don't want to be a different person, or to think differently.

I have no conclusion for this.

[Danielle Pepin]

Edited after more thought:

Sorry if I'm stating what seems obvious to most but something happened AGAIN today which makes me think some people don't know this yet and need to know it. >.< If people go to a chat to try and get anything out of it social or otherwise, I don't understand how they would do that without staying there more than just a few days. Quality friendship can't thrive if you just quit after a few days. People building connections which last takes time and keeping open (which I know isn't easy for many of us).

Also I was upset today for no apparent reason and now I'm thinking I may have reminded people how chats can make people feel more alone when people aren't being talked to directly 100% of the time...(which is an unrealistic expectation of chat btw)...just cause I was talking about feeling skipped over but I'm fine now....except for not knowing if I have a person to play Scrabble with now......

[Danielle Pepin]

My previous post here reminded me of the bike analogy to so many things in life and even life itself. For anyone having trouble sticking with things AND especially for anyone that hasn't learned to ride a bike yet or hasn't heard this analogy before. And no of course I'm not suggesting that knowing to ride a bike solves depression cause it doesn't, that's another thing entirely and my reason for posting this is just about the not giving up in general. (Also not suggesting everyone must learn to ride a bike...though I did feel a sense of accomplishment when I finally did...it's not necessary to understand most of this.)

Here it is copy-pasted so it's not link dependent:

"1. You need balance. If you lean too far to one side, you'll fall off.
Regarding character traits, Maimonides writes "that a person should follow the golden 'path of the middle' and not lean towards one extreme or the other."
It's important to always pay attention to where you're leaning.

2. Get back up again!
It's not falling down that determines your worth; it's whether or not you get back up eventually.

3. In the beginning you stumble, but with more experience you can really get far!
Life is a series of learning from your mistakes. That's how you learned to walk and talk. And it's how you grow in life.

4. If you look at the ground instead of looking up ahead, you'll lose your balance and crash.
In life, it's easy to live in your own little bubble, consumed with yourself. You not only disconnect from the world, you ultimately disconnect from yourself. Look up and outside yourself. Connect to the world outside of you. Only then can you flourish.

5. When the road throws you a curve, go with it!
When a turn is coming up, you lean with the curve. You don't fight it and go the other way.
Life sometimes throws you curves too, and in order to remain on top, you need to go with the flow."

{edited out something unimportant to the concept here cause it has nothing to do with religion}...

"6. A bike helps you get to where you need to go.
Some people ride bikes just for the thrill of it. And some people believe that life just for the thrills. They don't realize they have places to get to.
A bike is a tool – it's not the end goal. You're supposed to get to someplace with your life. Be clear on your destination, and if you use it well, you can really get far!

7. A bike doesn't move on its own.
Life and bicycles need people to operate them. Without a person behind the handlebar, guiding and making choices, it just won't go anywhere!

8. When you get really good, you can do wheelies!
After you've been riding a bike for so long, you can start doing the special stuff.
Life is like that also. Once you get the hang of who you are and where you're going, you can pop some big miracles too!

9. Bicycling gives you muscles.
Life toughens you up, especially if you ride up hills. Riding down a hill may be fun and exciting, but only riding up the hill strengthens your muscles.

10. You can't do it forever.
Some people wish they could live forever. Some people believe it. But just like riding a bike, your body eventually wears out, and you need to go home.
The important thing is that you enjoy the ride, and you get to where you need to go!"

- pasted from http://www.aish.com/sp/pg/48907897.html

[Danielle Pepin]

I wish I had a valid reason not to hate myself.

Just wanting to not hate is a reason in itself. Wanting is the first step to doing...or in this case stop doing.

[Tinasaur]

My previous post here reminded me of the bike analogy to so many things in life and even life itself.

Since I frequent this thread I've seen a lot of your posts here and I feel they're like a breath of fresh air. You're really trying to help people and you're very nice for doing so. *hugs*

[Phi]

My previous post here reminded me of the bike analogy to so many things in life and even life itself.

Since I frequent this thread I've seen a lot of your posts here and I feel they're like a breath of fresh air. You're really trying to help people and you're very nice for doing so. *hugs*

Couldn't agree more.

[Phi]

Feeling a surge of self-doubt and weakness. That I am a failure that is not good at anything, does not belong anywhere or with anyone. I wrote this vague thing, as it helps me let it out:

The wounded push forward,
the scarred transverse voids.
Old Thoughtslayer wields a soul
of unbending will and poise.

Seeker of peace, do you feel lost?
Has your heart withered to grey?
Old Thoughtslayer wields a light
in desolation and decay.

Know the fight never ends.
Blood shall spill and armour break.
Old Thoughtslayer wields a shadow,
lost within its frigid wake.

Seeker of warmth, do you feel alone?
Does your chest fall asunder?
Old Thoughtslayer wields a life,
of its feelings – none truly ponder.

[Dutch guy]

Great... I WAS having a good day. And now the fuckers want all costs for repairing that stupid gorram gate on MY insurance.

Fuck 'em. I'll fight this as much as I can. The whole layout is fucking stupid, there is no warning the gate is moving, its THEIR fucking guard who distracted me in the first place and its the same fucking guard that closed the ruttin gate right in front of me. And then the fucker notes in his logbook that supposedly I said I wasn't paying attention. When what I said was that I was DISTRACTED. BY HIM! (Oh, and he also conveniently made no notes as to how it happened, THAT the gate was closing and that HE was the one who pushed the button. Fucking asshole.) I am now trying to download the footage off my dashcam. I just hope it's still there...

[My pseudonym is Ix]

auberginequeen... *cuddles* Real sorry to hear that, that sounds sucky.

As for solution... look, I will preface this by saying I'm no medical or psychological professional, and honestly the overall confusion of the situation means I think you'd be best off seeking professional help from a counsellor. They have helped me greatly in the past and I think they can help you too.

However, just palming off the problem onto a counsellor is unhelpful of me, so for what it's worth I'll offer my opinion. I think that the struggling relationship you're experiencing right now is not something to obsess over, because it seems to be only a symptom of your wider issues relating to the relationship you have with yourself and the outside world. The problem is not that you're a shit girlfriend or anything overly dramatic like that- the problem is that you find it difficult to be close and girlfriend-y when you have such little time together. This in turn leads you to feel guilty and worried and gets you into a downward spiral wherein the monsters overtake you and just makes it all worse.

This is at least what it sounds like to me.

Trying to fight that spiral is doable, but it's much, much easier to catch it early on. The trick is to interrogate your brain, recognise when these feelings are coming on, and tell them- YOU ARE A PIECE OF SHIT LIVING IN MY BRAIN AND YOU'RE TALKING CRAP. It's very easy for depressive feelings to seem objective and fundamentally true, but they aren't- human beings are basically incapable of being objective about themselves. No matter how right it feels, it ain't true- and more importantly, by not believing the crap it says you actively make it less true, because you become more bright and open in your interactions with the outside world.

In the short term, it might help to try a couple of easy CBT techniques. One I got told a while back is to wear an elastic band around your wrist. Every time you feel a monster raising its head, take the band and shift it to the other wrist. Don't just toy with it- actively move it. Then move on with your day. The act of moving it from one to the other gives a nice clean break and can help you move on to another activity. I've met girls who do it with tying up their hair; redoing the bun or ponytail whenever they feel it coming on. Might be a useful tactic if you suffer from eczema or similar.

In the medium term, I would suggest formalising your approach to your mental image and your approach to the world. Gamification is a useful technique in this regard- set little challenges for yourself every week, and every week try and build on what you did the week before. If you don't complete a task, that's OK- you've got a new one for next time. The best challenges are the simple ones you can prepare for: for example, when I next see my boyfriend I am going to throw my arms about him and give him a massive hug and kiss and tell him how much I've missed him. Even if you don't feel like it at the time, even if you collapse into drudgery straight away afterwards, you've completed it and you can try better next time. Try it in other places too: set yourself a challenge to go up to someone who you think you might have offended and say sorry. Chances are they'll look baffled and go "Er... thanks" because they'd forgotten about it, but it doesn't matter what they think- you'll have completed your task. Or maybe "On Wednesday, I am only allowed to tell jokes that I would feel comfortable telling to a five year-old".

These probably won't feel natural or comfortable and they'll feel like a chore, but that's OK. The aim is not to infuse you with joy, it is to break you out of the cycle of being insular and worrying about what you've done, and into a cycle of DOING positive things. And hey- if you pretend to have fun hard enough, you might find yourself having some as a side effect.

And as a final thought... I would like to know why you are so opposed to SSRIs. Yes, they might change you, but here's the thing- "being you" is not worth being unhappy. If what you need to do to be happy and enjoy life is to change who you are, be that through medication or other forms of self-improvement, then is there any good reason to hold on to the parts of you that are holding you back? If it's the side-effects or such that are turning you off then I totally understand (SSRIs have a long and coloured history), and I don't think that you HAVE to take them. But I've seen that attitude of 'I don't want to change who I am' ruin some beautiful things, and you deserve better.

I hope that helps a bit.

[Elomin Sha]

No a real depression but probably a little whine and sombre: in 10 days I'll will be 30 years and 0 (not birthday).

[Arclight_Dynamo]

I'd like to chime in about SSRIs, since all I ever seem to hear are negative experiences.

Well, I'm on SSRIs. Have been for almost a year, now. It's a medium dosage meant to help control my depression and anxiety disorders. And you know what?

It works.

I remember, when I first started seeing my psychiatrist, that I was terrified of going on meds. I was afraid of side-effects, I was afraid that it meant I was somehow "weak," I was afraid that they wouldn't work, I was afraid that they'd change my personality.

I was wrong to be afraid.

Yes, I had some unpleasant side-effects. Dizziness, sluggishness, fatigue, confusion, GI issues. But, other than the GI issues, they went away after about a week - they were just adjustment side-effects that I get when I started a new medication or increased the dose. And the GI side-effects that I still have are 100% dealt with by drinking a glass of Metamucil every day.

On the other hand, the medications have vastly improved my life. My anxiety is probably 10% what it was, and I haven't had a depressive episode since I started SSRIs. They did change my personality - back to what it was before I became depressed and anxious. I'm the same person, I'm just not experiencing symptoms that distort who I am anymore. If this is a change, it's a good one.

Finally, that fear of being "weak"? Nonsense. Utter bollocks. I'm sick, I take a pill, I feel better. How is that weakness? It'd be like calling a nearsighted person who wears glasses "weak" for having to correct their vision. It's bullshit.

Anyway, that's my experience. It might not be yours, auberginequeen. But I wanted you to know that I had similar misgivings about SSRIs until I tried them, and stuck with them for a while (they don't even start to show benefits until six weeks or so after starting them). And I wanted to provide a positive counterpoint to all the negative horror stories out there.

[Danielle Pepin]

My previous post here reminded me of the bike analogy to so many things in life and even life itself.

Since I frequent this thread I've seen a lot of your posts here and I feel they're like a breath of fresh air. You're really trying to help people and you're very nice for doing so. *hugs*

*hugs back* Thank you for saying that, Tinasaur.

Arclight_Dynamo, I'm glad they are working for you especially after hearing about someone else that hasn't had a great time with them so far and it's been years...I'm not sure what their process is for trying them and how much they followed instructions to the letter or how much they communicated with their doctor about needing increases or decreases when it was too strong. I think that part may be tripping some people up when they do try. I know of at least one person that was offered them and they only took it for two days at the most and stopped as soon as they had first sign of a side effect.

[Danielle Pepin]

Feeling a surge of self-doubt and weakness. That I am a failure that is not good at anything, does not belong anywhere or with anyone. I wrote this vague thing, as it helps me let it out:

Phi, your poetry is quite moving. That last line gets me because depression makes people feel as though no one ponders the same feelings when it is many who do share them. You are very good at writing!

[Arclight_Dynamo]

Arclight_Dynamo, I'm glad they are working for you especially after hearing about someone else that hasn't had a great time with them so far and it's been years...I'm not sure what their process is for trying them and how much they followed instructions to the letter or how much they communicated with their doctor about needing increases or decreases when it was too strong. I think that part may be tripping some people up when they do try. I know of at least one person that was offered them and they only took it for two days at the most and stopped as soon as they had first sign of a side effect.

That could be - you really do need to take them every day for six to eight weeks before you see any benefit at all. Unfortunately, the side-effects start pretty instantly - I got them about half an hour after taking the first tablet.

It's shitty, but that's how the meds work.

And for me, I did follow the instructions to the letter. I took the prescribed dose every day, like I was supposed to. Never missed it even once. I also have a fantastic psychiatrist. She kept checking on me to make sure the dosage was correct. She even called me at home during the first week, just to make sure the meds were okay for me. I think that helped a lot.

But, yes, you're right. You need to stick with SSRIs until they're supposed to start working or you'll never know if they do, you need to just wait the side-effects out until they abate, and you need to communicate with whoever prescribed them.

[Danielle Pepin]

I hope more SSRI's are made that can be taking safely by people who have heart conditions too.

[betsytheripper]

As someone who tried an SSRI and had it not work out, my side effects were so extreme and so immediate that my doc pulled me off in ten days.

But! There are other options!

I went on a selective Dopamine reuptake inhibitor, bupropion (name brand Wellbutrin), and it was amazing for me. The first couple weeks were a little rough, getting used to the energy (it acts a bit like an upper), but it helped me tremendously, and I know I wouldn't be where I am today without it.

There are wonderful alternatives to SSRIs if those just aren't your thing, for whatever reason that may be, and any doc worth their salt will have knowledge of them.

Most importantly, though, is communication. I'm sure as much as they'd like to be able to, your doctor can't read your mind. If you have any experience with, apprehensions or misgivings about any medication, be up front about it. They may be able to assuage such concerns, or you can find an alternative together.

And I'd like to echo what Arclight said: medication is not a weakness. I'm stronger now than I ever have been, and medication played an integral role in that.

[auberginequeen]

It's ironic you mention bupropion, betsy... The lab I work in studies bupriopion (though I don't specifically). As such I do know it better than the conventional SSRIs.

The doc said she couldn't prescribe it to me though, unless I could be diagnosed with ADHD (not likely, and testing costs $2k) or if SSRIs didn't work because it's "not commonly used to treat anxiety" which, alongside depression, plagues my life. Knowing the extreme range of side effects of SSRIs (loss of sex drive, apathy, emotional numbness, etc) I don't want to chance it. As I said, I have taken different meds in the past and ... would you understand what I mean if I said that my intellect is my most treasured thing? Other meds have made me completely irrational and unable to control myself and since then I only take drugs that are limited to physiological effects... except alcohol. I would be willing to try bupropion, however.

As such I'm stuck because she's put me in a position where it's either SSRIs or nothing. I have been to a psychiatrist before and his advice after 4 months of waiting and then talking for 10 minutes was "you can choose to be happy." I have been to the free counsellors at the school (they're social workers) because I can't afford to see a psychologist. They handed me a single-page flyer on CBT techniques and told me I'm beyond conventional help and need to be medicated. The doc gave me a link to a website that instructs you in mindfulness. None of these things have helped me. Even as a Psych major, knowing common techniques, understanding depression and anxiety, I don't know what else to do. I can't treat this by myself, I'm too in my own head.