The depressing depression thread

[Arclight_Dynamo]

Just so you know? That one guy who was harassing you about the river? He sounds like a toxic jerk. And the DM (and, hey, the other players) should have said something. That's absolutely not okay, and I'm sorry that happened to you.

[Deedles]

... That guy sounds like an asshole, and if I'd been there I wouldn't of let his behaviour slide. Roleplaying in a group is meant to be FUN, meaning you don't pressure people out of their comfort zones. Man, that just... makes me so furious. It really wasn't your fault in any shape or form.

As for the issue about lore, I think it depends on the people. I don't tend to be picky about everyone knowing the lore, since it's difficult to learn everything about every RP world out there. I know several people who are the same, but have also met my fair share of people who can get pissy at someone not knowing something, but they're REALLY not worth your time.

EDIT: As a sidenote, what do you think of text based pen and paper RPs? So instead of conveying your actions over voice you do them over text? Do you feel like the added time to think about what to say/suggest/do would make you feel more relaxed?

[Arclight_Dynamo]

Okay, know what? Oddball suggestion time.

Rytel, do you like Star Trek? Are you familiar enough with its lore that you'd feel comfortable doing some roleplaying as a starship captain? One-on-one with a single person you trust running the game rather than in a large group?

[RytelCSF]

Meh, I wouldn't call him an asshole, because I'm still friends with most of the group, including him (and were friends before I started the game, for that matter.) I don't play D&D with them anymore, obviously, but we still get on. I don't want to act like my problems are due to this one guy. I still have problems of my own that have nothing to do with him.

Okay, know what? Oddball suggestion time.

Rytel, do you like Star Trek? Are you familiar enough with its lore that you'd feel comfortable doing some roleplaying as a starship captain? One-on-one with a single person you trust running the game rather than in a large group?

Not a fan of Trek, sorry. I like sci-fi in theory but in practice it usually doesn't hold my interest.

[Arclight_Dynamo]

Okay, how about Star Wars? That can work for this, too. Or is all sci-fi out?

Edit: Basically, and it's a thing I've wanted to do for myself for a while now, I was thinking about either Star Trek: Attack Wing or Star Wars: X-Wing. Those are very rule-bound games (essentially very light war games).

But I think they're perfectly amenable to inserting RP elements. Instead of just having a combat encounter between two players, you have one player set up a scenario (mission, etc.) and run the "enemy" in that scenario, while the other player gets to play the protagonists.

So, say you have a scenario where the Enterprise shows up to investigate a thing, and there are Klingons who also want that thing. A fight ensues, with one player being in charge of the story and the Klingons (essentially the DM) and the other flies the Enterprise.

That way, you get to fall back on hard mechanics, you still get some roleplay, and there's only one other person rather than a group. If you had been interested in and familiar with the lore, it would have helped with that issue, too.

Now, since you're not interested in sci-fi - perfectly fine for you not to like it, BTW - that's not going to work. I do wonder if there's a similar game with a setting you do enjoy, that you can pull a similar stunt with, though?

It's all about the slow, safe, and comfortable exposure to RP. Start small, and build up to where you want to be.

Edit 2: Also, I hope I'm not coming across as pushy. If I am, tell me to cram it. Please.

[RytelCSF]

Doubleposting because I didn't see this.

EDIT: As a sidenote, what do you think of text based pen and paper RPs? So instead of conveying your actions over voice you do them over text? Do you feel like the added time to think about what to say/suggest/do would make you feel more relaxed?

I have done some freeform text based RP in the past, and I do greatly appreciate being able to stop and think about what you're going to say, but it's still nervewracking bringing a new character into an established world like that, just because I don't really know who this person is yet, personality-wise. I can answer one of those dumb questionnaires, sure, but that doesn't really correspond to how they'd act in a significant situation.

Oh, and something else I thought of: I never quite know how to roll for knowledge, as it were. Someone else at the table is always "I'll roll Perception/History/Religion/Nature/whatever to figure out the thing" and it always seems like a good idea but it never occurs to me to do it immediately, so I'm always like "Oh I guess I will too" but I always feel dumb for not thinking of it first.

Okay, how about Star Wars? That can work for this, too. Or is all sci-fi out?

I'd be better with Star Wars than Trek. I at least like the movies and KoTOR even if I'm not huge on the whole universe, and if it's the new RP system I know one of the races is Astromech Droid and I'm pretty sure even I could handle roleplaying a beeping trashcan.

Edit: And it's not. Never mind then. Have played X-Wing though. Not a bad game, though not something I'd want to play all the time.

[Deedles]

Doubleposting because I didn't see this.

EDIT: As a sidenote, what do you think of text based pen and paper RPs? So instead of conveying your actions over voice you do them over text? Do you feel like the added time to think about what to say/suggest/do would make you feel more relaxed?

I have done some freeform text based RP in the past, and I do greatly appreciate being able to stop and think about what you're going to say, but it's still nervewracking bringing a new character into an established world like that, just because I don't really know who this person is yet, personality-wise. I can answer one of those dumb questionnaires, sure, but that doesn't really correspond to how they'd act in a significant situation.

Oh, and something else I thought of: I never quite know how to roll for knowledge, as it were. Someone else at the table is always "I'll roll Perception/History/Religion/Nature/whatever to figure out the thing" and it always seems like a good idea but it never occurs to me to do it immediately, so I'm always like "Oh I guess I will too" but I always feel dumb for not thinking of it first.

I've been pondering on running a text based game, running a DnD game over voice chat right now, but I'm not too fond of it, I've always preferred text because I feel like it's easier to get into my character, and GM, when I have some time to think.

If I do run that game, do you think you'd be interested? I haven't decided on system yet, so you don't have to say 'yes' or 'no, but just, do you think that would be nice? Just a small group, since I'd only want 3-4 players. When it comes to setting I tend to be more fond of setting up my own, and thus running the players through it, and never expecting my players to know everything from the get go.

[RytelCSF]

Depending on schedule (well, if it's text-based that might be moot; depends on if it's forum- or IRC-based) I'd be for it, at least in theory. Though at the same time I don't want you (or anyone) to feel like they need to accommodate me for anything. I mainly just said my initial post to vent; I wasn't expecting a solution, much less for this many people to want to assist me.

[Deedles]

I don't think it'd be accomodating for you, but seeing as I know what it's like to feel unsure in an environment where you're meant to have fun I really hope I could help you have a fun experience, especially since the friends I tend to RP with are very laid-back and look to have fun more than being 'THE BEST'. I also think it'd be nice to have a chance to get to know you better. ^^

It would probably be over IRC for IC, and if you feel comfortable with it we'd have voice chat(probably over Skype) for OOC. I like that combo since it allows people to talk to each other without interrupting the flow of the game, and it also lets people voice any concerns/questions they have smoothly.

[AdmiralMemo]

So this... This is going to be rough... So rough that it's taken over a week to write this post... But I've got to get it out. Just a fair warning that you might be offended by one part or another of what I say.

Alright, here goes.

I took a shower last Friday (October 3). Why is that significant? Because I hadn't taken a shower in probably two months. I say this as a signal of how deep I've gotten in my depression.

Now, I want nobody, nobody telling me how unhealthy that is. I know it's unhealthy, and I don't need to be talked down to like I'm some sort of retarded moron. The problem is that knowing a thing and actually getting the motivation, drive, energy, etc. to do a thing are completely different things. Knowing that if you don't jump out of a speeding car that's headed for a brick wall, you're going to die... That's one thing. Knowing that isn't going to save you. Actually doing that action will.

That fact in itself further adds to the depression. I know I need to do the thing. I know I should do the thing. I know that doing the thing is beneficial and not doing the thing is hurting me. So why can't I just go and DO it?

This is stuff that I can do, I know I can do, and have done in the past. So why can't I do it now? What's wrong with me that I can't complete simple tasks? What is stopping me?

So let's elaborate on what's gotten me down.

My parents' house burnt down on January 25, 2013.
They were supposed to have been with me for a year, which would've been fine.
They have been with me for about 1.75 years, nearing double their planned stay.
The extension of their stay is due to stupid insurance bull-honkey.
We weren't even allowed into the house to salvage anything until June 2013, due to insurance hold-ups.
Then, we've changed contractors 3 times since the start of this project, particularly the first time because zero work was done between Thanksgiving 2013 and March 2014. The house had its external walls finished, but the inside was not complete.
Now that the inside is complete, my parents still can't move in, because all of the stuff we did salvage is still sitting in the insurance's storage place, where we can't access it.
This is due to stupid bureaucracy, where they're just delaying and delaying on getting inspectors to come out and clear everything and say "Yeah, you can live here now."
So, my parents are still in my house.
Add to that the fact that my father, someone who I used to look up to, is becoming more and more childish, and has an absolute refusal to learn anything new these days. He throws a temper tantrum and looks more like a profane 5-year-old than a 59-year-old at those times. I'm sick of it at this point.
Compound that with the fact that my dad is still fighting to receive his unemployment compensation, and now it's going to take lawyers to settle.

I'm 32 years old, and I have no car, driver's license, or IRL friends.
I'm told that socializing, and actually getting out of my house would help. (Note that I work out of my house.)
I'm in the Catch-22 that I would need friends to help me get my license, I would need to socialize to make friends, I would need to be mobile to socialize, and I would need a license to be mobile.
The nearest LGS is about 5 miles away. I'd love to go there and play Magic. People are recommending that I get a bike and do that. I'm not sure if my bike still exists or if it burnt up in the house fire. I'll have to check that out sometime.
Even so, even if I had a bike, the place does Magic times at 7 PM on Mondays and Fridays. I work Noon to 8 PM on Mondays and 2 PM to 10 PM on Fridays, so neither of those works for me, even if I had the mobility to go.
On top of this, the public transportation system in this city sucks. Regularly, you'll see one bus packed to the gills with people coming down the street 15 minutes late. This is followed a minute or two later by 3 more buses that are practically empty and are ahead of schedule. Does anyone else see a problem with this?

So, I'm left with socializing with the LRR community, my last and probably only hope of socialization on the Internet, since my other social groups have fallen apart.

I had high school friends in my close-knit class of 20. All but one have fallen off the map, as far as I'm concerned, and Rob has his family to take care of. Also, his job frequently takes him out of the state/country. Also, he's about 7 miles away.

I had a couple of friends in college, but they only lasted a single class for the most part. I only have 1 friend of that group left, too, and she's 18 miles away. I only get to see her once a year at the Shore Leave Convention.

I had a chat-room RPG group that I associated with from 1997 to the early 2000s. It went through various names and servers, but the people drifted away. I only have one contact left from that group, too. Combine the fact that she's in New Jersey with the fact that she's in and out of mental institutions (usually for good reason). She's a crazy person, but she's really nice. She's only ever really a danger to herself, not others, and it's simply through her own negligence and lack of forethought, not any type of specific attempt at self-harm.

Then, I had another forum that I frequented based around a webcomic, from about 1995 to 2010. This community was vibrant and very nice. It was much like the LRR community. However, the community pretty much fell apart when the webcomic shut down, and the creator turned his sights onto a site dedicated to climate change. Now, I understand his ideological shift. He said that he started thinking about his daughter growing up and asking her dad "Your generation saw this coming. Why didn't you do anything?" He wanted to at least be true to himself and say to her "I tried." That is noble and admirable. However, most of the community felt that his implementation of the site was merely a jazzed-up RSS reader, with information they could get more easily elsewhere. They felt that he should be using his comic-creating talents to their best to promote his new ideas and new way of thinking instead of rehashing things others have already done better. So people left, including me.

Finally, there's my ex-girlfriend. We were together as friends since I was 3 years old (1985). I think I've told the story about us breaking up in 2006 before on this forum. If you want me to tell it again, I will. Suffice to say, she went insane, and now is over 1,000 miles away in Halifax, Nova Scotia. Odds of seeing her again: slim. Odds of me wanting to see her again: next-to-zero.

So that leaves the LRR community as my lone source of socialization with real live actual humans. And I'm trying to milk out of that everything I can. However, I've had times where I've felt like an outcast here, too. I've had disagreements with people here, and I've felt like I'm the only one who holds the views I do. At other times, I've felt like I've been specifically removed from the circle. I've felt like everyone else here is having fun doing a thing and leaving me to mope in my sadness and loneliness. They're all out having a good time, not caring about how rejected I feel.

A specific instance of this came during the MtGO Khans Pre-release.

First, there was the Saturday time-slot. Since I had stuff happening on Saturday, I had to make sure I had everything for Saturday planned by Friday night. So I kept refreshing the forum for updates Friday night. Hosk had a poll going with 3 options: Normal FanDraft time at 6 PM PDT, Wait for LRR at 7 PM PDT, or not coming but voting anyway. The "Wait until 7 PM" option was the prevailing option when I went to bed. (And still is, technically). So I planned the day around that. I'd be up at church for the Monthly Men's Breakfast at 8 AM, be home for a couple of hours before leaving at Noon to be up at my Aunt's 50th Birthday Party by 2 PM, 30 miles away. Then, we'd leave at the right time to be home by about quarter of 10 PM EDT so I could participate in the Fan Pre-release. Well, we left in time, but there was some traffic, so I was hurrying my parents to get home so I wouldn't miss it. I get in the house, boot up the computer, get into Twitch chat, and ask about the status...
Come to find out, the Pre-release started at 5 PM PDT, not 7 PM PDT. I should have suspected something, since Hosk is and has been a lying liar who lies, but I naively trusted him anyway. I don't understand why everyone else likes him so much, when he grates on every single nerve in my body, and pisses me off royally. (There are actually times I've wished that the people firing that rocket years ago had better aim.)
So I went into a Pre-release alone. I ended up playing against a fan in one round by chance. I went 1-3 with my Mardu deck, and the "win" was a bye. So, yeah... Still stink at MtG limited. But I wouldn't have been so frantic to get home "in time" if someone had told me that it started 2 hours earlier. If people had been open and truthful with me, I could've asked my parents if we could've left the party 2 hours earlier, or maybe just written it off and not rushed home.

Then, Sunday, I decided to just do more Pre-releases on my own. I did a draft and a sealed. After being done those, I found out that there was a Fan Draft going on after Dix was done his sealed. However, he had just started, so it'd probably be in 3.5 to 4 hours. I was like "OK, I'll get another quick sealed in." Everyone seemed cool with that. Then, MtGO decided to be a jerk, and I ended up needing to close out and relaunch the whole program. I ended up in my sealed about half an hour later. I was then yelled at in chat for "waiting so long" to start my sealed, despite the fact that it was beyond my control. In any case, despite picking Temur, I went 2-2 in that sealed with a Jeskai deck (with another bye, this time in Round 2). So maybe better. Anyway, I was finished half an hour before Dix finished, somehow, so I was glad to make the draft. (I was ready to either double-queue or drop out of the sealed, if needed.) So I go to the store, buy my 15 tickets, and then just sit around in Dix's chat, waiting for the draft to be ready. So I wait... and wait... and wait... Then Dix says he needs to take the stream down and fix a few things before firing the stream and draft back up. I'm like, OK. And then he proceeds to take another half an hour trying to sell his cards for tickets. (Why he couldn't just BUY tickets, like I did, and get on with it, I don't know.) Anyway, since it had been an hour, and I had done nothing except drink things at the computer, I really needed to pee. So I said to the chat that I'd BRB and to let me know when Dix went live. I go into the bathroom and start peeing. Just 30 seconds after I left my BRB message, while I'm in the middle of peeing, I hear Dix's voice coming from my computer. He's started streaming. So I hurry up as best I can and rush back to the computer, only to find that they decided to fire without me. This really pissed me off, since I had been waiting around for a whole hour and had spent my money just to be able to draft with these people, and they decide to fire it up right when they knew I left the room. The only thing I can infer from that is that they specifically didn't want to play with me. I could've been OK with that, had they been honest and straight-forward with me from the get-go. However, they decided to let me wait an entire hour and spend my money like a chump before excluding me from their closed little group.

Regarding other social groups, some of you might be asking yourself "What about church?" Many of you would consider me to be "religious" (though that's not the term I would apply to myself, personally). Most of you know I go to church. Well, I go to church on Sunday mornings. Also, on Wednesday nights, I make copies of the sermons on CD for people who request them. (This is slowly dying down as more people use the website to download, but there are still plenty of older people and people with technical limitations (like dial-up Internet) so it'll still be a thing for a while. Also, if you want a sermon older than 1 year ago, it's not available on the site.) The Wednesday night thing is pretty solitary for me, though I do end up playing with the kids sometimes. (The kids are there in the child-care when their parents are in Bible study.)
Anyway, the problem with that is that there are only about 3 or 4 people who I could even consider "peers" (within the age group of mid-20s to late 30s) and no one I've talked to shares any of my non-church interests. So it becomes that "alone in a room full of people" feeling at times.

So let's turn to some of the other things weighing on me. This will be about the more high-level, existential things that are in the background of every thought, every action.

I've been trying to find comfort and peace and it's been eluding me. I've turned to the Bible. What I've found there is pretty depressing. There is no guarantee of comfort and peace in this life. It's promised to come after I die, but unless I specifically do something drastic, that seems like a long way away. Even worse, there are two things that depress me even further. First, there's the fact that I will be persecuted for my beliefs. I see that happening to others, and while it hasn't happened in any major way to me, I dread it. Second, the end times will be like the days of Noah, where everyone will do what is right in his own eyes. This tells me that it's not going to get better on this Earth. It's like entropy: you can fight it off in small, local areas, but on the large scale, you can't defeat it. So, I'm thinking like Peter Gibbons in Office Space: "every single day of my life has been worse than the day before it. So it means that every single day you see me, that's on the worst day of my life." Only this is on a global scale.

So I decided to take a look into atheism for two reasons. 1. I'd like to be able to better converse with and understand people I know who are atheists. 2. Maybe they have something? Can't hurt to check it out, right?

What I found there really disturbed me. It was looking into the abyss and finding nothing. What's the point in being "good" or "evil" when morality has no objective standard and in the end, you don't get treated differently due to it? Hitler and Gandhi are both dead. If there's nothing after death, then it didn't matter. Everyone's trying to tell me "It's about affecting and influencing people. That's what matters." Why? They'll die, too. The people they influence will die. Everyone will eventually be forgotten. Like, think about if there were a Dinosaur Hitler or a Dinosaur Gandhi. What impact would their actions have on us? None. We even have parts of human history that are a complete mystery to us. Records have been lost, and we don't know anything about them, so nothing that happened then affects us today.

I will die. You will die. Everyone on the Earth will die. The Earth itself will eventually die. The whole universe will die. Because neither matter nor energy can be created or destroyed, and entropy reigns, everything is in a constant state of decay.

This is where it gets into people saying that we should "Live for now" and "Make our own morality" and that things are "True for you, but not for me" and such. My fear is that perhaps one day, I might agree with that. If I am ever convinced that this is all there is, you will see me be the most self-centered, amoral person ever. I will do anything that gets me a net gain, be it monetary, emotional, or whatever. If giving you $100 pleases me, I will do that. If raping and killing you pleases me and I can figure out how to not get punished, I will do that. The only concerns in my mind would be to spread my genetic material as far and as wide as possible, to be happy, and to be remembered for as long as possible by as many people as possible after I die. I would essentially be striving to be Genghis Khan.

Because that's what we'd be here for, right? To be remembered? If you're not remembered, you don't matter. Trust me: I know. I know what it's like to be forgotten and I'm still alive to say "Here I am!" to try to combat it. When I'm dead, I won't even have that luxury.

The oldest "household name" that is around would probably be Abraham, father of the Israelite and Arabic peoples. That's going back 4000 years. That is likely the longest you can expect to be remembered, and you have to do something really important for that. Discarding that, you would probably expect to be remembered for maybe 100-150 years after you die. If you do something extraordinary, maybe 1000 years or so. But that's it.
You have the likes of Plato, Aristotle, and Socrates who shaped philosophy during their time. But what about random Greek woman #2584? We don't know her name, what she did, or anything, so she has no significance to us at all. She may have influenced the people around her, but her impact was severely drowned out by bigger names at the same time, and then other big names later in history. Her impact is lost, forgotten, and meaningless to us today.

Even more so, when you consider the fact that the world population has sky-rocketed so swiftly. In 1990, when I was beginning to understand the world around me at 8 years old, the population of the world was about 5 billion. It is currently past 7 billion, and by the time I would die a natural death in the 2060s, the population is projected to be past 11 billion. Even your immediate impact is going to be drowned out by others these days. Your lasting impact will be even more quickly gone.

For example, the LRR crew has made a serious, life-changing impact on many in this community. But, despite being so widely-seen, and having LRR fans everywhere, the amount of fans probably only runs in the thousands. The vast majority of people around the world have no idea who Graham Stark is and would not care. Victoria, BC could be nuked from orbit, and it would not affect the lives of literally billions of people on this Earth by any amount whatsoever.

So what does it matter to be either "good" or "bad" anyway? Why should anyone act in any way other than complete self-interest, with no regard to others, except when they affect you? Everyone becomes a meaningless, interchangeable cog in the giant machine that is the Earth. You die, and you're dead, and someone else takes your place. And then they die, and someone takes their place, and so on.

Most of all, I fear oblivion and the loss of self that entails. If there truly is nothing after death, then why aren't we working harder at physical immortality, to at least stave it off for a few thousand or a few million years, barring any accidents. I can only ever remember being me, and I want to be me for as long as possible. (If you haven't read Dancing with Eternity by John Patrick Lowrie, I highly recommend it. One of the things it deals with is the reaction to death in an immortal society, because accidents will still happen.)

And the thing that really gets to me is that either way, there are so many people that I know will not see eternal joy and peace when they die. If what I believe is right, at least 4 billion people currently alive on this planet are going to Hell. If I'm wrong, then basically everyone dies a meaningless death, eventually forgotten and not missed. Everything will be erased.

This... this is just a small piece of the darkness within me. This is why it rings hollow when people tell me that I'm such a good person and that the people in this community care about me, and respect me. How can you respect someone who has thoughts like these? How can you respect a person who fails all the time? How can you sit there and care about me when I can easily go from Jekyll to Hyde at the drop of a hat? How can I be a good person when I don't truly care about others, except for when it plays to my own advantage?

This is part of the reason why I am surprised I haven't been banned for some of the statements I said in the Religion Thread when I was deep in depression. (I haven't gone back to that thread since my last post, I don't know what the reactions to my post were. I probably should one day. Not today.)

So... That's out there... That's a small fraction of what I have to get off my chest and what has gotten me down. Let's see if it helps me any. Because that's all that matters: me.

*slowly drifts into semi-solipsism*

[CiderMuffin]

I know how you feel, Memo, on the religion side..I've been thinking of getting into buddhism in order to get towards my spiritual side but really, I'm not even sure if it's worth it.

I know what it's like to get depressed to the point of not caring about personal hygiene. My room is a mess, filled with dust and the last time I can remember taking a show is back in like July. I'm not sure if I'm going to be a good person for this but if you need someone to talk too I'm usually always in DesertBus chat (even if I'm not talking, my username is Cider) and you're free to message me on the forums.

[JustAName]

Memo... I'm not really sure how to respond. I feel like any point I could make, you would counterargue with nihilism... and I wouldn't believe them less, and you wouldn't believe them more.

Would you like to have friends? What's the long-term purpose of that? Nothing, maybe, but they make you feel better, right?

Why is being remembered the end-all goal for you? Your nihilism seems to spring from the possibility that there may not be an afterlife, but if there is no afterlife, what could being remembered possibly do for you?

I don't care if I'm remembered in a thousand years. I care if I'm remembered fondly by the people who knew me in my lifetime. I want to have been a positive factor in peoples' lives. I want to have made them happier. Because that's what makes me happy. So, yes, it's selfish, but it's selfish within a productive framework. Even if it "doesn't matter" in the long run, society is structured on community and teamwork. If you benefit people around you, they are likely to benefit you. You may have to find the people who are more likely to do so, but, frankly, given your desire to be remembered, I think you'd rather be remembered as a positive figure overall.

[Jamfalcon]

I'm of the same mind as Fayili, and I don't know what I can say to help you that hasn't been said in the past. There are just a couple of points I thought I could address:

The story about the way the Magic on Sunday worked out stinks for you, there's no doubt about it. It was really bad timing that they started right when they did, and I wasn't there so I can't speak with certainty, but it sounds to me like just really bad luck. It doesn't sound like they were specifically trying to exclude you, just that sometimes people can make mistakes and maybe some people didn't see you say you were going, or those who did were looking at a different tab when discussions of starting came up. You're perfectly justified in feeling annoyed about that, but really don't think it's likely that it was coordinated exclusion.

The other thing I wanted to mention is that regardless of how you feel about the way he acts, those comments about Hosk are rather inappropriate, especially in a public place like this. I know the two of you don't see eye to eye, but there's no call for personal attacks like that.

I do hope you can find some way to work through these issues and life starts to get better for you. It's clearly not going to be an easy road, but the fact that you're able to talk these problems out is definitely a start.

[Duckay]

Look, Memo, I know this isn't what you want to hear, but I feel like it needs saying.

You cannot put the responsibility for you feeling left out on us. Not when you talk the way you do. If I were Lord Hosk, and I knew that you were calling me a "lying liar who lies" and wishing that I was dead, I would also exclude you from things. Not because I want to sit around twirling my mustache about how evil I am, picking on the depressed guy, but because it's a matter of self-care. We need to look after our own emotions as well, and given that you say things like that, it would not surprise me if a lot of people were finding it emotionally difficult to try to support you.

Would you try to include and emotionally support someone who said things like that about you? Be honest, now. Given that you had a fit of depression over being accused of lying in a forum game of deception, I'm very certain that if someone else spoke about you the way you speak about Lord Hosk you would not want to include them at all.

This is not me saying that you deserve to be left out. I am not saying that I think you're a horrible person who deserves this, or anything of the sort. Don't for one minute think I am. I'm saying that I think you need to take a look at what you're doing. Maybe you should take some time to mend some bridges instead of assuming you're excluded because we're terrible people.

[Elomin Sha]

I don't mind you, Memo, at all. I enjoyed our 'spirited' argument from a few weeks back. You may not have noticed but you were insulting probably not intentionally (I can't fault you for that, I've done that a lot through out my life) about personal experiences and what they mean to other people. It's one thing to dismantle yourself but another to do it to others who are trying to help.

I did think that a 'tough love' talk was needed at some point. We're not ganging up but things do need to be said when you ask for help but refuse to even accept it.

If you do ever want to talk about things let me know I'm pretty much available on PM all the time. I don't get to talk to people one-on-one much, or at all.

[Volafortis]

Memo; for what it's worth, I enjoy conversing with you, and feel like you're one of many members here who make the community great. I understand that you have some sour opinions on some of the members of the community (i.e. namely Lord Hosk), but you, in my experience, always are aware of the community and try as hard as you can to please as many people as you can, and often get yourself overwhelmed in doing so. Compound this with personal life factors (e.g. Parents), and all I can really say is I can certainly identify with a lot of this depression: Where you understand that the best thing for you probably to be doing is to just try to get away from all of these factors that make you depressed, but due to the circumstances of these factors, this is next to impossible. The few things that do seem to remain to provide some kind of escape slowly anhedonically dwindle into another chore you perform to make others happy. This is a thing that has occured to me many times, and it always inexorably seems to morph into self-loathing and suicidal tendencies without my own intervention, and I have learned that the only way to stop this is to step back from these former pleasures that have become chores, identify why they are no longer providing me solace in escape as they had before, and changing my attitude to fix this. This often can lead me to seem to have an aloof demeanor toward these things, even when they sometimes may be the only thing keeping me alive; I do not allow myself to be overly-burdened by these things when they become chores, and sometimes the only way I can really do that is to completely mentally detach.

With regard to religion, and I should preface this by stating that I believe that I have as much right to try to change your belief as you have to try to change mine, that is to say, none. All I will do is provide my perspective, and maybe it can help you understand where I personally am coming from.

I am an atheist, and while I acknowledge that nothing I do will result in some great reward, I do what I feel is right because it is what I choose to do; this is how I carry myself in my pursuit for greater understanding, my pursuit to improve the world, because I'd rather not everyone else be as miserable as I. Morality comes with civility, and civility is the only means by which humanity may try to better itself, and therefore better the world. I suppose I differ from the agnostic in belief only, truly.
I know that I can not possibly know.
I believe that there is nothing.

The belief of nothing is the most believable to me. Also, in my mind, death is not the end; the end of influence is the end. In this regard, seeking influence on the future is a means by which I may attain some form of immortality of afterlife.

This is a bit of a simplified version of my belief system, but I don't feel that this thread is necessarily the place for me to have an in-depth conversation on this matter. Perhaps it can resume in the religion thread, should I ever find my point of view relevant to conversation there.

With regard to the nihilistic thought that in the end, nothing matters:
I find this thought peaceful.

[Ptangmatik]

I would say that wishing death upon any fellow human is an unhealthy mindset, you would be better off divesting yourself of that.

I am an atheist, and sticking to a system of morality helps elevate humanity as a whole, I don't see it in terms of personal gain. I certainly don't only do good because I'm scared of an omnipresent entity judging my every move.

I mainly say things without thinking of their consequences, or as a throwaway gag to which I never attach significance, and offend people that way. I hope you haven't taken offence at anything I've said, but if you have, I apologise unreservedly.

You mean well memo, and you've been under a lot of stress. I'm glad you've shared with us, and that you recognise a lot of the patterns you're stuck in as unhealthy, it's a good first step. You can build upon it, back to positivity. Have a mug of something like hot chocolate (or whatever alternative you prefer) then have another shower today, brush your teeth, etc.

I don't know what to suggest for actions to take, as I'm not great with this stuff myself. Perhaps make a list of positive steps you can take?

One day (well, probably over a few decades) the Sun will swallow the Earth, and then the Andromeda galaxy will collide with the Milky Way in an impressively massive few millenia of explosions. Humans may develop to the point where they can escape all that, or not. Either way, we have no say in it, so there's literally not point worrying about it whatsoever, just help your fellow man, and hope that the person you help is either a genius scientist, or their great great great(ad infinitum) great grandchildren will be.

[JustAName]

Also, I want to make something clear, Memo. I try to be the mild one around here. I may get annoyed or angered, but I try not to show it most of the time. But if believe in an omniscient deity is the ONLY thing keeping you from raping people, we are THROUGH. Full stop. Not only is that terrifying, it is absolutely disgusting. I know a sociopath who wouldn't do that. And while I want to believe you never would... you said yourself that if you fully succumbed to nihilism, you would try to take these actions if you believed you would not be caught. I want you to think about the things you've said here, not in view of your own depression, but through the eyes of someone else reading them, and understand what they would make us think. Empathy is an extremely useful tool, and maybe you should think about using it.

[My pseudonym is Ix]

Memo.

You are in a rut. You are in a self-fulfilling cycle of being insular and withdrawn, and keep convincing yourself that is the 'right' way of doing things because it feels comfortable and easy. It is not. When you say 'I should check out if my bike was destroyed some time', that is not a some time problem. That is a now problem. That is a 'you are going stir crazy without even realising it and are becoming inactive to the point of self-endangering. I know you are worried about crime, and that is a totally rational fear- but firstly you are much safer on a bike than on foot and secondly, the risk to your long-term health from staying in and not trying to be a bit more mobile and active is far, far more significant than any crime. I am not exaggerating.

Your current mindset is not you. It is a product of your not interacting with the rest of the world. Believe me, I've been there. You have to do something. Now. Get up, investigate the bike situation. Now. Doesn't matter if it's cold, don't matter if you're busy, if you put it off then you will keep putting it off forever. If the bike's still in one piece, great; get a-Googling for something to do in town this evening. Even if it's just visit an empty game store- walk in, say hi, talk shop. If you can't find your bike, then start looking for one. Have one bought and in your possession inside a fortnight. Then go somewhere, same day you buy it.

Dude, I'm not trying to be harsh here. But you are going to drive yourself insane if you don't get up and do something. Please

[AdmiralMemo]

Thank you, everyone. I've been reading these pretty much as they've come in, but I wanted to wait about a day to allow people in all time zones to respond.

Contrary to what you might think, that I "might not want to hear" certain things, you're wrong. I want to hear these things. I want "real talk." I want blunt, honest opinions, because that's pretty much the only thing that gets through to me. I know it's what I need to hear, and thus, I want to hear it. I know that's not "normal discourse" but I have never been anywhere close to "normal" in my life. I don't take offense easily when people are being honest. In fact, a lack of honesty is one of the very few things I do take offense to.

In any case, let's get to some replies.

I'm not sure if I'm going to be a good person for this but if you need someone to talk too I'm usually always in DesertBus chat (even if I'm not talking, my username is Cider) and you're free to message me on the forums.

Thanks for your understanding and your offer. I don't know you very well, so I don't know whether I'll take you up on your offer, but thank you for it in any case. I might just do it at some point.

Memo... I'm not really sure how to respond. I feel like any point I could make, you would counterargue with nihilism... and I wouldn't believe them less, and you wouldn't believe them more.

Possibly true, but you know... I'd like to hear them nonetheless. If anything, I love a debate.

Would you like to have friends? What's the long-term purpose of that? Nothing, maybe, but they make you feel better, right?

Yes, essentially. That's a very selfish reason, but it's all I've got. That I would want you to serve my interests by making me happy seems like a terrible reason to be a friend, but I can't think of any other.

Why is being remembered the end-all goal for you? Your nihilism seems to spring from the possibility that there may not be an afterlife, but if there is no afterlife, what could being remembered possibly do for you?

That is an interesting question. Why do I want to be remembered? It probably falls down to the fact that it's the only way that I know I would have made an impact on this world. That my contribution actually meant something. I am essentially searching for a meaning and purpose to my life, and I'm currently adrift in a sea of conflicting and confining things.

I'm asking the question "Why am I here?" And I'm asking it in three ways.
"Why am I here?" (What purpose do I have?)
"Why am I here?" (Why is it significant that it's specifically me and not another similar person? Why is my life meaningful?)
"Why am I here?" (Is this even the place for me, or should I be somewhere else?)

You're perfectly justified in feeling annoyed about that, but really don't think it's likely that it was coordinated exclusion.

Maybe... Maybe... But it just seems like it because it happens so often. Am I turning into one of those conspiracy nuts with the string and pushpins on a corkboard?

Or maybe, since this is the Internet, I can go the #GamerGate route with MSPaint and red lines everywhere?

The other thing I wanted to mention is that regardless of how you feel about the way he acts, those comments about Hosk are rather inappropriate, especially in a public place like this. I know the two of you don't see eye to eye, but there's no call for personal attacks like that.

When have you known me to do the "appropriate" thing?

Look, Memo, I know this isn't what you want to hear, but I feel like it needs saying.

You cannot put the responsibility for you feeling left out on us. Not when you talk the way you do. If I were Lord Hosk, and I knew that you were calling me a "lying liar who lies" and wishing that I was dead, I would also exclude you from things. Not because I want to sit around twirling my mustache about how evil I am, picking on the depressed guy, but because it's a matter of self-care. We need to look after our own emotions as well, and given that you say things like that, it would not surprise me if a lot of people were finding it emotionally difficult to try to support you.

Would you try to include and emotionally support someone who said things like that about you? Be honest, now. Given that you had a fit of depression over being accused of lying in a forum game of deception, I'm very certain that if someone else spoke about you the way you speak about Lord Hosk you would not want to include them at all.

This is not me saying that you deserve to be left out. I am not saying that I think you're a horrible person who deserves this, or anything of the sort. Don't for one minute think I am. I'm saying that I think you need to take a look at what you're doing. Maybe you should take some time to mend some bridges instead of assuming you're excluded because we're terrible people.

You're right in what you say, but you have the motivation wrong. I'm not trying to put the responsibility on you folks. I'm asking for help. I went down the rabbit hole and can't find my way out.
Also, I'm not assuming that I'm excluded because you're terrible people. I'm assuming I'm excluded because I'm a terrible person. I'm assuming that you are trying to take care of yourselves and keep yourselves from harm by excluding me, leading me to ask "What's wrong with me? And is there any way to fix it?"

Regarding Hosk, that takes some explaining. Let it be known that many people (including people in this community) do things that I find personally offensive. However, I typically don't say anything, because I've gotten to know them enough to know why they do the things they do. I can understand that they're coming from a specific foundation, a specific world-view and I can follow the chain of logic that leads up to the actions. I have a sense of logic that, even if I don't agree with it, I can at least understand it. So, unless I'm arguing to attack a world-view that I believe is wrong, saying I'm offended by the action isn't going to help, because that would do nothing to stop the underlying cause. It's kind of like a weed: unless you kill the root, it'll keep growing back. Why bother clipping it when that won't help?

My issue with Hosk is specifically that I don't understand his world-view, his underlying foundation. Thus, I can't figure out the reasons for his actions, making me frustrated and confused. If I could figure out why he does the things he does, then maybe I'd have some more peace about it.

If you know me, you know I wouldn't say something that I didn't believe was true, when talking in a serious situation. So these are things that I actually believe, at least at the time I am writing them.
Regarding "wanting him dead," it's not really that I want him dead. It's that I wish to not have to encounter him if I'm never going to be able to figure him out, and if he were dead, that would be an efficient way of solving that. I could also wish he never had Internet, or some other such thing, but what I said was the first thing that came to mind.

I don't mind you, Memo, at all. I enjoyed our 'spirited' argument from a few weeks back. You may not have noticed but you were insulting probably not intentionally (I can't fault you for that, I've done that a lot through out my life) about personal experiences and what they mean to other people. It's one thing to dismantle yourself but another to do it to others who are trying to help.

You're right. I did not notice at all and it was not intentional. If I were intentionally trying to insult someone, they'd know it. Can you point me to the "insulting" things I said so I can figure out what's going on?

I did think that a 'tough love' talk was needed at some point. We're not ganging up but things do need to be said when you ask for help but refuse to even accept it.

No, this is the right call. The issue is that I don't accept things that I don't understand, so if you want to get through to me, you have to put it in a way I understand, which is typically bluntly and openly, the way I appreciate. Smack sense into me with as many hammers as you need to.

If you do ever want to talk about things let me know I'm pretty much available on PM all the time. I don't get to talk to people one-on-one much, or at all.

I will, if I feel up to it.

The few things that do seem to remain to provide some kind of escape slowly anhedonically dwindle into another chore you perform to make others happy. This is a thing that has occurred to me many times, and it always inexorably seems to morph into self-loathing and suicidal tendencies without my own intervention, and I have learned that the only way to stop this is to step back from these former pleasures that have become chores, identify why they are no longer providing me solace in escape as they had before, and changing my attitude to fix this. This often can lead me to seem to have an aloof demeanor toward these things, even when they sometimes may be the only thing keeping me alive; I do not allow myself to be overly-burdened by these things when they become chores, and sometimes the only way I can really do that is to completely mentally detach.

This... this right here is what I could not put into words.

Now what I savor, what would make me happy, is completion... But it's like I'm caught in Zeno's Paradox, where every step towards completion becomes smaller and smaller and I never end up finishing it.

With regard to religion, and I should preface this by stating that I believe that I have as much right to try to change your belief as you have to try to change mine, that is to say, none. All I will do is provide my perspective, and maybe it can help you understand where I personally am coming from.

Yes, this is exactly what I'm looking for. I'm not looking to change you (though I'd be happy if you did), and I don't expect that you'll change me, but the sharing of experiences is what gives me more information to process and figure out what's going on. It helps me see the larger picture.

I am an atheist, and while I acknowledge that nothing I do will result in some great reward, I do what I feel is right because it is what I choose to do; this is how I carry myself in my pursuit for greater understanding, my pursuit to improve the world, because I'd rather not everyone else be as miserable as I. Morality comes with civility, and civility is the only means by which humanity may try to better itself, and therefore better the world. I suppose I differ from the agnostic in belief only, truly.
I know that I can not possibly know.
I believe that there is nothing.

See, I'm probably an odd duck when it comes to this. I don't act the way I do to expect a reward. I don't have a belief in an afterlife to be rewarded for my actions. Why do I want an afterlife? To exist. Because I want to be me for as long as I can. I've even said that if for some reason, Heaven was off the table and my only choices were Hell and Oblivion, I would choose Hell. Think about that? How many people out there would you say that would choose Hell over Oblivion? Probably not many. But I would. Because, even in suffering, I would still be me.

The belief of nothing is the most believable to me. Also, in my mind, death is not the end; the end of influence is the end. In this regard, seeking influence on the future is a means by which I may attain some form of immortality of afterlife.

This is what I was trying to explain to Fayili, that she didn't seem to comprehend. If this is all that there is and there is nothing more, then I want to influence as much as possible.

With regard to the nihilistic thought that in the end, nothing matters:
I find this thought peaceful.

I don't. Look at the lyrics to John Lennon's "Imagine" for a moment:

Imagine there's no Heaven
It's easy if you try
No Hell below us
Above us only sky

You probably find this comforting and mellow.
I find it terrifying. I don't understand how anyone can be comforted by the cessation of their existence.

I would say that wishing death upon any fellow human is an unhealthy mindset, you would be better off divesting yourself of that.

As mentioned, the "death wish" was not the main goal and was an efficiency thought. And, as I said, I know I'm doing unhealthy things. This is why I'm asking for help.

I hope you haven't taken offence at anything I've said, but if you have, I apologize unreservedly.

If you have, I don't recall it, so, it doesn't matter. And you probably have not.

One day (well, probably over a few decades) the Sun will swallow the Earth, and then the Andromeda galaxy will collide with the Milky Way in an impressively massive few millennia of explosions. Humans may develop to the point where they can escape all that, or not. Either way, we have no say in it, so there's literally not point worrying about it whatsoever, just help your fellow man, and hope that the person you help is either a genius scientist, or their great great great(ad infinitum) great grandchildren will be.

But why? Why should I help my fellow man? This is what I'm looking for: a solid anchor, a foundation, an understanding of why people do things. What's the point in helping anyone, be they scientist, madman, king, or vagrant? Because, in trying to comprehend existence without God, I've been trying to find another anchor, and the only one I could find was self. Thus, I don't understand what doing any of this helping would accomplish, unless I am certain that I'm going to be remembered for it. If it's not going to help me in any way, why do it?

Also, I want to make something clear, Memo. I try to be the mild one around here. I may get annoyed or angered, but I try not to show it most of the time. But if believe in an omniscient deity is the ONLY thing keeping you from raping people, we are THROUGH. Full stop. Not only is that terrifying, it is absolutely disgusting. I know a sociopath who wouldn't do that. And while I want to believe you never would... you said yourself that if you fully succumbed to nihilism, you would try to take these actions if you believed you would not be caught. I want you to think about the things you've said here, not in view of your own depression, but through the eyes of someone else reading them, and understand what they would make us think. Empathy is an extremely useful tool, and maybe you should think about using it.

You think it's terrifying and disgusting to you? It's terrifying to me and I'm the one having these thoughts. I keep asking myself "Why am I thinking like that?" and I can never come up with an answer.
Also, note the caveat that I mentioned: "if it pleased me"
Now, it might not please me, so I might not do it.
But it's terrifying to me to know that it's something I'd even be capable of thinking or doing. This is why I'm trying to let it out in what is probably a safer environment. To keep thoughts like this bottled inside is definitely not healthy.

And the other thing: I really don't have empathy. At the very least, it's not something that comes naturally to me, so any arguments based upon it fall flat.
I am a naturally cold and calculating person. Any empathy you might see out of me is dug up hard from reserves, and takes effort. Why else do you think I asked a few weeks ago on this same thread about whether I might be a sociopath? Y'all said you didn't think I was. Based on this new post, are you reconsidering your answers? And with your post, perhaps I'm worse than a sociopath? That's even more frightening.

I keep saying I'm a terrible person, and everyone's like "No you're not." But... maybe I actually am if this is the kind of stuff that goes through my head? What do people say? "Beware the nice ones"? Is that referring to me?

But just take that into consideration... I am afraid of my own self. I am frickin' terrified, and I don't know how to stop it.

Memo.

You are in a rut. You are in a self-fulfilling cycle of being insular and withdrawn, and keep convincing yourself that is the 'right' way of doing things because it feels comfortable and easy. It is not. When you say 'I should check out if my bike was destroyed some time', that is not a some time problem. That is a now problem. That is a 'you are going stir crazy without even realizing it and are becoming inactive to the point of self-endangering. I know you are worried about crime, and that is a totally rational fear- but firstly you are much safer on a bike than on foot and secondly, the risk to your long-term health from staying in and not trying to be a bit more mobile and active is far, far more significant than any crime. I am not exaggerating.

Your current mindset is not you. It is a product of your not interacting with the rest of the world. Believe me, I've been there. You have to do something. Now. Get up, investigate the bike situation. Now. Doesn't matter if it's cold, don't matter if you're busy, if you put it off then you will keep putting it off forever. If the bike's still in one piece, great; get a-Googling for something to do in town this evening. Even if it's just visit an empty game store- walk in, say hi, talk shop. If you can't find your bike, then start looking for one. Have one bought and in your possession inside a fortnight. Then go somewhere, same day you buy it.

Dude, I'm not trying to be harsh here. But you are going to drive yourself insane if you don't get up and do something. Please

I am already doing something this evening, as mentioned. I'm going to church to make the sermon CDs. This is right after I get off of work, and by the time I get home, it's past 10 PM. Thus, I cannot do that today. However, I'll check on the bike tomorrow.

[Duckay]

Memo, I mostly just think you need to take a long, hard look at how you treat other people. While it's improbable that everyone is conspiring to exclude you, take a real look at your explanations of the situation. Even going past your vendetta against Lord Hosk (which was frankly extremely inappropriately expressed), why do you think it's okay to demand that people spend money for the privilege of spending time with you when they don't have to? (The buying vs. trading for tickets.)

The fact is that you didn't address my point. You wouldn't spend time with someone who treated you that way even if they were depressed because at a certain point you just couldn't handle it any more and would have to back away for your own well being.

You keep saying you lack empathy unless you try hard, but frankly that's a crutch. If you need people around you (which it seems like you do), you really need to go to greater effort to treat them better. You don't need to be everyone's buddy and be sunshine and rainbows all the time, because that's not realistic. But you need to treat other people like people if you want to then lean on them.

Also, if you are honestly in a state where you're having these kinds of thoughts, seek help. Yeah, I know, the doctor costs too much and is an uphill walk both ways (and your parents can't know, and you live in a high crime area, and you have no means of transportation -- I do recall these explanations), but we are not equipped to solve your problem. Are you honestly thinking that emotional support from us is enough to deal with the fact that you're apparently in a mindset where wishing people dead is okay and raping and killing people would be okay if there were no consequences? Not one of us is qualified for that.

If I knew you in real life, I am getting to the point where it would be tempting to drag you there by the scruff of your neck. As it is, I've tried over and over to show you ways you can get help. If you PM me I can talk you through the process of whichever approach is best for you.

But at some point, you need to take over, man. I can't do it for you.

[JustAName]

^

[Elomin Sha]

Should point out, you use excuses to deflect attention and culpability, own what you say and realise what the words you used mean.

[Arclight_Dynamo]

Memo, I don't really know you. I'm pretty new around here... but, god damn it, what I'm seeing from you tells me that you need to speak to a mental health professional. ASAP.

You're in Maryland, right? There are services available to you:

A toll-free number for assistance or to answer questions 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Call 1-800-888-1965.

I don't know how the mental health system works in your state. But the people on the other end of that phone number bloody well do. Call them. Talk to them. They will tell you how to proceed.

Look. Seeking help is a hard thing to do. I understand that. It's scary, it's uncertain, and it's embarrassing. I know - I've fucking well been there. A lot of us have. It's shitty.

Doesn't matter. You need to do it anyway. Please call that number.

[Dutch guy]

The next few statements are blunt and short as I don't feel like stating it any other way would work. Sorry for that. Let me know if it causes offence so I can apologize (If needed).

I don't really know what happened between you and Hosk to cause this animosity, but I will say this: "The FUCK dude"? Even if its just an "efficiency thought", what the hell do you mean by saying you'd think it'd just be easier for you if the guy was dead. That is so extremely self centered I don't even know where to begin.
Hosk has his own problems to battle. So maybe you don't like him. Who cares. So maybe he has wronged you over the internet some times. Big F-ING DEAL! Wishing someone were dead just so they wouldn't get in the way is just NOT cool. It is hurtful. And not just to him.

But why? Why should I help my fellow man? This is what I'm looking for: a solid anchor, a foundation, an understanding of why people do things. What's the point in helping anyone, be they scientist, madman, king, or vagrant? Because, in trying to comprehend existence without God, I've been trying to find another anchor, and the only one I could find was self. Thus, I don't understand what doing any of this helping would accomplish, unless I am certain that I'm going to be remembered for it. If it's not going to help me in any way, why do it?

Because you can. Because it makes THEM happy. Because nobody else will. Because you damn well just feel like it. If the only reason to do something is to be remembered for it you are just WAY too self centered. You have been stuck in your own world for so long you've become so focused on what YOU do that you've lost all contact with what others do or want.

You are stuck in a massive rut. You don't go to church out of religion. You don't seem to go because it gives you any meaning or comfort (correct me if I'm wrong). You go out of habit. Because its what you have always done.

If you want to get out of the black hole you are stuck in, routine is the enemy. Break it. DO something (other than suicide) that is not in the norm. Found out if you still have a bike. Buy one. Go for a ride on a Wednesday evening instead of going to church. Do something different.