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Kapol wrote:Unrelated, but to be clear on one thing I mentioned, I do appreciate that people who have offered to listen if I needed it. It's one thing I really like about this community overall, and I didn't mean to underplay that. It's more that I know I'd never actually use the help, here or from my RL friends. It's more me having trouble opening up to people than a knock against anyone.

I get that. I'm not someone who can just open up to anybody about my problems, and it can even be tough with people I'm close to. I think the key thing is having an outlet, and if this forum works for you, that's great. Don't feel bad about making long posts, either. I may not always reply (especially since I'm usually on my phone these days), but I do read about 90% of everything that gets posted here, and I know I'm not the only one. It can feel like shouting into a void, but if it helps, it's worth it.

And yeah, like Minni said, we like you and think you're pretty cool.

It's summer which means everyone is busy having fun on holidays or outings and sharing it on Facebook.
And I've sat at home all day in the beautiful weather because I am trapped at my home.

I saw this, thought it was cute and am hoping others will like it too.

I sometimes dispute when people talk about Inside Out as a metaphor for depression. I understand the notion of neither feeling happy nor sad, but to me, my understanding of it is more that happiness dissipates and anger and sadness aggregate.

There are fires of anger in my head, and I have no fire extinguisher. I just have to let it smolder.

I am unhappy. But it will pass.

Yeah, I've never seen the film, but I know that my depression is rarely the "totally numb and emotionless" type. I get sad. Really sad. Blubbering, gut-churning, can't-move-my-arms sad.

And, yeah, angry - though, I feel it's more frustration than anger.

I suppose the lesson is that depression is different for everyone, and everyone's lived experiences are valid and deserving of empathy.

My depression usually comes in the variety of "SOMEONE is going to get shot... whether it's me or someone else, time will tell, but still..."

It flips frequently between the outward rage and the self-crippling "You're a horrible person to think like that and shouldn't deserve to live."

I don't do well when I'm with people... and yet... being alone makes me even worse...

I found Inside Out very relatable for my depression for several reasons, one being the fact that allowing yourself to feel sad helps, even if it won't fix everything, but the thing that struck me the most was the personality islands.

I felt something just break inside me when I saw the different personality islands dim to a grey and collapse. It just felt like such an apt visualization of what it feels like when anxiety and depression fucks with you. Stuff you normally enjoy just... doesn't reach you anymore. As if that connection is severed, the energy is gone.

I watched Inside Out in the cinema with my siblings when it came out, and afterwards they said that they "understand me better now". I found it curious, because the film did a good job at presenting depression overall, but depression is such a wide and varying thing that one story can't encapsulate all that it can be.

For me, depression is not about being numb, but about having a deep sense of despair, hopelessness and loneliness that cannot be shaken off. The fact that none of these emotions were presented made me feel that my "type" of depression was not represented. Which is okay, but people that have not experienced depression do not get that,

I guess I didn't really interpret it as Riley just being straight up numb. She goes through a lot of various emotions before she finally goes numb, or rather, apathetic, which to me seemed like more a defense/coping mechanism rather than that her depression was straight up feeling numb.

Though I speak from personal experience. My depression often leads me to feeling lonely, hopeless, helpless and can often lead me to getting really angry, and when that just becomes too much or goes on for too long it's as if I'll shut down. It's not that I can't feel those things anymore, but it's that I don't have the energy to actually be able to FEEL them, because I'm left so drained. Though it's important to remember that even ones own depression won't remain exactly the same at all times. It shifts and changes.

Though it doesn't apply to all types of depression I find myself very happy that there is a movie out there that tells kids that it's okay to be sad! Actually allowing oneself to feel what you feel and not bottling it up because being sad is "bad".

Someone shared this recently elsewhere which I thought I should share here. (May have been mentioned earlier in the thread but reposting can't hurt.)

https://www.7cups.com/member/

A site for anyone anywhere can sign up to anonymously chat with a caring listener online for free or pay what seems to be a reasonable amount for an actual therapist for online therapy, which seems a lot easier than venturing out to find one to speak to in person. Probably more efficient too when people can consider their words with more care while typing them instead of everything being spoken. There's also free exercises that are supposed to help with stress and anxiety.

Phi wrote:I watched Inside Out in the cinema with my siblings when it came out, and afterwards they said that they "understand me better now". I found it curious, because the film did a good job at presenting depression overall, but depression is such a wide and varying thing that one story can't encapsulate all that it can be.

True, but a work that's able to get the overall picture across to a, for want of a better word, sane audience is still valuable in its own right. While there's a fair amount of media that deals with depression (although not so much in film as in, say, music), an awful lot of that won't be picked-up on by audiences with no experience of depression (by way of illustration, see basically any discussion about the Anime series Neon Genesis Evangelion). And, as I'm sure everyone in this thread has learned over the years, there are an awful lot of people who have little to no idea about what depression is even in the overall sense, so if it can remedy that to some degree then that's hopefully one less awkward conversation someone with depression is going to have to go through at some point.

It is a bit disappointing that the variance in how depression can manifest and effect people is a bit under-represented though, and of the works I've seen that do touch on this, they fall into the 'most sane audiences won't pick-up on it' area as mentioned above.

MetricFurlong wrote:

Phi wrote:I watched Inside Out in the cinema with my siblings when it came out, and afterwards they said that they "understand me better now". I found it curious, because the film did a good job at presenting depression overall, but depression is such a wide and varying thing that one story can't encapsulate all that it can be.

True, but a work that's able to get the overall picture across to a, for want of a better word, sane audience is still valuable in its own right. While there's a fair amount of media that deals with depression (although not so much in film as in, say, music), an awful lot of that won't be picked-up on by audiences with no experience of depression (by way of illustration, see basically any discussion about the Anime series Neon Genesis Evangelion). And, as I'm sure everyone in this thread has learned over the years, there are an awful lot of people who have little to no idea about what depression is even in the overall sense, so if it can remedy that to some degree then that's hopefully one less awkward conversation someone with depression is going to have to go through at some point.

It is a bit disappointing that the variance in how depression can manifest and effect people is a bit under-represented though, and of the works I've seen that do touch on this, they fall into the 'most sane audiences won't pick-up on it' area as mentioned above.

Certainly, and I am very glad that this movie exists and has reached a large audience. My sibling's comment just gave me a sense of dissonance from what was portrayed, that's all.

I will never be good enough.

That is simply not true, Rytel, but I'm really sorry that you feel that way. *hugs* Wanna talk about it?

If you do then you can either reply here, but if you wish to feel free to add me on Skype(Nintarie), or send me a PM here.

I don't even know if I can explain it properly without breaking down right now. I'm having a hard time just typing this. But... my life has been defined by disappointing people, letting them down, and not meeting their standards, and I'm just so tired of it.

Brutal honest answer: screw the standards others set on yourself. Be who you want. People set standards on me and I ripped them verbally and by showing what I was capable of.

I understand what you're saying, and I agree, but that's not what the problem is right now or why I feel so awful.

I know I'm not useless. There are definitely things I'm good at, and there are definitely things I know I've worked hard on to either become better at, or to struggle through mental illness to become adequate at. There are things most people would consider very mundane that I'm proud of myself for because I know how long it took and how hard I worked to acquire them.

But I'm useless where it matters. I'm useless at all the things I want to do, all the things I legitimately care about getting better at. All my hobbies and/or social activities and things that are supposed to let people de-stress... I can't do any of them, and I get horrible anxiety just trying.

And the worst part is, people want to help. People want to see me get better. And I want to appreciate that, but it just gives me even more anxiety, because what if I don't get better? What if I can't? What if this is all there is?

I've let them down, just like I've let down everyone else, and I refuse to let down anyone else.

Even if that means I can't do anything.

When in doubt, murder spree. Works every time.


....
....
Forget I said that, there are no string of bodies. NONE. AT. ALL.

I suspect it's not their intention to stress you out if they want you to feel better... You'll get better in your own time. These feelings won't be forever. Trust that if people are genuinely concerned about your wellbeing that they'll be patient while you work through this. The additional pressure you put on yourself won't make you or anyone else happier.

As for your hobbies, what makes them stressful? What's changed between now and when you did enjoy them?

In short, I became the Family Disappointment.

I transferred from a university to a community college because I couldn't handle the stress, dropped out of that when I wasn't certain what I wanted to do with my life, stumbled from crappy job to crappy job aimlessly for a while before attending vocational school, completing that but doing very little with it, and now while I have a job that I'm personally satisfied with, it pays the bills and not much else and that's not acceptable to anyone but me.

And you know what? I'm proud of where I am. I know what I went through to get here. I know how hard I worked, even if everyone else refuses to see it. But none of that matters because all this has taught me that no one cares how hard you worked, or how hard you tried. People care about results and nothing else.

If I'm not good at a hobby (and I'm not good at any of my hobbies), I can't discuss them with like-minded people because I'm useless in their eyes. But they don't treat me like I'm useless initially, because they assume I'm about as good as they are. So I have to fake it. Except I can't fake it forever, because eventually they're going to see me perform, and then I could lose everything I worked for.

Rytel,

Way back when he was first developing person-centred therapy, Carl Rogers spent a lot of time expounding upon the subject of a person's locus of evaluation, a concept he pretty much invented. The idea is this: a locus of evaluation is the sum total of where a persons evaluation and opinion of themselves come from, and can be internal or external to varying degrees. Those with a strong external locus of evaluation tend to find their self-worth is very much at the whim of those around those around them, which tends to make it a fairly fragile beast. I mean, even the best of friends don't compliment one another constantly, despite what various bits of pop culture exposure may have lead you to believe. People with a strong internal locus of evaluation basically develop their own standards against which to judge themselves, and their opinion of themselves is borne primarily from within rather than without.

But here's the real rub- a locus of evaluation is not innate or 'built-in', it is learned and can be altered surprisingly easily. It's quite difficult to do it consciously, and really it's a state of mind thing as much as anything else; if one is able to convince the logical part of one's brain that, essentially, "my own opinion of myself matters way, way more than anyone else's ever could", then sooner or later the less rational mind will start to accept it as gospel too (emotions are suggestible like that).

Your most recent post smacks of someone hovering towards the 'external' end of middle on the spectrum. You are proud of your own achievements and where you've got to, and that you're able to feel that suggests a solid element of internal evaluation. This is backed up by your final paragraph where you talk about, essentially, being able to live up to your own ideas regarding what 'good' means- although these ideas might not be particularly healthy, they do at least appear to be yours to a greater or lesser extent. This is something I struggle with- I have heavily internalised my locus of evaluation over the last few years, but my standards are often too unrelenting and arbitrary to be entirely helpful. This is rather a separate issue, but it is at least mine to deal with.

Back to you. The key evidence for an externalised locus of evaluation in your case seems to come from your third paragraph, where you say that despite your own self-admitted pride in your achievements, "none of that matters". You are willingly disregarding much of your own self-opinion because it doesn't fit with what the world appears to be telling you (at least through the lens of your own perception, which is *always* a clouded one), and in doing so you are letting it be a major source of your ill-feeling about yourself.

And yes, the world does pretty much only care about results. Results are what shape history, results are what get written down in the books- unfortunately, shit happens on that one. But here's the rub- that does not have to matter to you that much. It's like the old cliche of someone giving up a well-paid city job to go and raise their kids; from the perspective of "the world" they have ceased to be important in shaping the path of whichever field they were in, but that doesn't matter. They get to help raise a family and watch their children grow, and from their perspective that's worth more than any amount of validation from the outside world.

You don't have to care about what the world thinks too much. Life is not an exam.

I can't really add much to Ix's post as it's really thorough and well-articulated.

I just wanted to say that a lot of very interesting and happy people are family disappointments. What a family expects of their children has a lot to do with their culture, personal biases, how they grew up, etc. It does not mean they are right. No one else gets to experience your life. They may think that their way of doing things would make your life better but they can't know that for certain. Only you know whether or not something is right for you. You obviously feel deep down that you're doing well - trust that feeling, and don't let other people try and convince you you aren't or shouldn't be happy.

Everyone has a turn at being the family disappointment.
My older sister was when she was on drugs and heavily into drinking. Now she is getting a Masters and started a family.
I was also a family disappointment for a bit because of my sexual promiscuity and having a child way too young, and dropping out of college. Now I have 2 kids, a husband and am looking at starting my own business.

My husband was the family disappointment when he started dating me. No career, college dropout, and he started dating a single mother. Now he's happy, has 2 kids he adores and his mom mostly leaves us alone. She still doesn't think much of his career prospects, but he has been at stay at home dad since the younger one was born. He thinks being a SAHD is much more fulfilling than any career. And society seems to think he is brave or crazy for doing that.

Being the family disappointment does suck. But don't let it be the only thing you see. You're happy with where you are and how far you have come. Be proud of that.
Growing up is hard work. I think I only know 1 person who has figured out how to adult and seem confident doing it.

Days like this I wonder why I even bother trying to draw at all...

I've been in a low for a little over a week and I've been trying to think if there was an obvious trigger or something.

In any case, it's making me really not care about people with nice lives. I'm struggling to figure out how I'm going to acquire a better car (current one is starting to tank) and my friend is telling me about test driving a secondary, for-fun project car and I'm not even going to sugar coat it, I resent that. I resent that some people have had nice lives with a safety net always there. And I especially don't want to hear about how nice their lives are and have been when I'm debating draining my emergency rent fund so that I can have reliable transportation.

I'm so tired. I'm just tired of everything.