Request: LRR Card sleeves

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Woland
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Request: LRR Card sleeves

Postby Woland » 09 Jul 2012, 12:41

Request: LRR Card sleeves

They are doable now. I'd buy them. Anyone else?
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Re: Request: LRR Card sleeves

Postby Lemegeton » 09 Jul 2012, 12:49

i would buy the hell out of them
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Re: Request: LRR Card sleeves

Postby Dibria » 09 Jul 2012, 13:05

Most certainly, may I suggest a collection of sleeves so that I can use them across decks I store in the same boxes? Maybe a straight logo and the runners logo?
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Re: Request: LRR Card sleeves

Postby Lemegeton » 09 Jul 2012, 13:13

I vote the runners logo. it just looks cooler to me.
still wish i could get a runners t-shirt
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Re: Request: LRR Card sleeves

Postby Dibria » 09 Jul 2012, 13:16

Yeah, with what amounts to a 'bring back the runners shirt petition' in the runners section of the forum you would hope it will show up again soon.

Then again in theory season 6 DVDs should be around soon...
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Re: Request: LRR Card sleeves

Postby Kapol » 09 Jul 2012, 14:19

Lemegeton wrote:I vote the runners logo. it just looks cooler to me.
still wish i could get a runners t-shirt


Seconded.
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Re: Request: LRR Card sleeves

Postby Lord Hosk » 09 Jul 2012, 14:28

The problem with sleeves is the massive run you need to make and LRR has been burned on i'll order that runs before.


Legion offers a custom creation run, but the minimum is 55,000 sleeves. LRR is popular and many of their fans would buy sleeves but would 1100 people buy a 50 pack? Probably not. They would probably get 50 orders for a pack of 50 each (sell 50 packs of 50 sleeves), then maybe 50 more (packs of 50) ordered over the next few years which leaves them with around 50,000 card sleeves to deal with.

If you find a place that can print a pack of 50 or even a run of 5,000 for less than $1 a sleeve, let us know, and everyone in the magic community because there is a HUGE demand but the simple economics of it makes it unfeasible.

(edited for clarity)
Last edited by Lord Hosk on 09 Jul 2012, 15:06, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Request: LRR Card sleeves

Postby Kapol » 09 Jul 2012, 14:38

Lord Hosk wrote:The problem with sleeves is the massive run you need to make and LRR has been burned on i'll order that runs before.


Legion offers a custom creation run, but the minimum is 55,000 sleeves. LRR is popular and many of their fans would buy sleeves but would 1100 people buy a 50 pack? Probably not. They would probably get 50 orders for a pack of 50 each, then maybe 50 more orders over the next few years which leaves them with around 50,000 card sleeves to deal with.

If you find a place that can print a pack of 50 or even a run of 5,000 for less than $1 a sleeve, let us know, and everyone in the magic community because there is a HUGE demand but the simple economics of it makes it unfeasible.


Personally, I figured that was the case. I actually found a kickstarter that was about making custom card sleeves that was pretty expensive ($20 for 60 sleeves). The kickstart is here: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/div ... eves/posts). It's ended, but I think the person is planning on doing it again with another run.
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Re: Request: LRR Card sleeves

Postby Dibria » 09 Jul 2012, 14:44

While I agree completely with what you are saying there is one thing I could not let pass.

Nobody, nobody buys one pack of 50 sleeves, it's utterly useless. Unless you are going to use them for a sealed deck or similar 40 card deck event you need to buy at least 2 50 card packs.

Not that buying 2 packs per person improves your figures any, still, would be nice to have some LRR sleeves.
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Re: Request: LRR Card sleeves

Postby Avistew » 09 Jul 2012, 17:07

Lord Hosk wrote:The problem with sleeves is the massive run you need to make and LRR has been burned on i'll order that runs before.


Are they against pre-orders? If they start pre-orders, they can use the money from them to order, and if they don't get enough money from that, they don't charge the credit cards. Pre-orders are a really good way to judge how many people will be interested and how feasible a project is.

I would suggest packs of 60, by the way, or 75. Certainly not 50.
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Re: Request: LRR Card sleeves

Postby Kapol » 09 Jul 2012, 17:15

Avistew wrote:
Are they against pre-orders? If they start pre-orders, they can use the money from them to order, and if they don't get enough money from that, they don't charge the credit cards. Pre-orders are a really good way to judge how many people will be interested and how feasible a project is.

I would suggest packs of 60, by the way, or 75. Certainly not 50.


I'm not sure if their system can handle pre-orders in that way. And if they were paid then refunded the money, they'd likely be charged fees for both transactions.

I would suggest packs of 80 or 100 myself, just to give it some wiggle room just in case. ~60 card deck and 15 card sideboard, then some extras in case a few cards are DOA. Going 100 also gives enough for a person to build a EDH deck without having 20+ sleeves lying around.
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Re: Request: LRR Card sleeves

Postby Avistew » 09 Jul 2012, 17:21

To be honest though, what I use sleeves for the most is tokens. Since tokens don't belong to a deck, you can give each of the a sleeve that matches the token (in my case, plain colour of the token's colour. Silver for artifacts.)
If I was making my own sleeves, I might make specific token ones.

Anyways, the premise is "they are doable now". Care to elaborate on that?
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Re: Request: LRR Card sleeves

Postby Kapol » 09 Jul 2012, 17:24

Well, they could go the way that mass-producers go. 50 or 100, with 100 being slightly cheaper. I think many would just use it to sleeve their decks though, hence why I think higher count is important.
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Re: Request: LRR Card sleeves

Postby Graham » 09 Jul 2012, 17:56

So, we've thought about this.

BELIEVE ME we've thought about this. We have looked into it extensively.
The issues are twofold: The minimum required print-run (easily handled with a pre-order) and sleeve quality.

Basically, we don't want to sell crappy sleeves.

So, we're still looking, and hopefully we'll be able to find something that works for us, and you.

Glad to hear there'd be a market for it.
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Re: Request: LRR Card sleeves

Postby Duckay » 09 Jul 2012, 18:27

I understand that it's fairly impractical but hey, put me down as another person who would love some LRR card sleeves... Te runners logo, or the LRR logo.
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Re: Request: LRR Card sleeves

Postby Lord Hosk » 09 Jul 2012, 21:42

I dont want to be such a downer, I would buy them too, but the sheer scale of making them at a reasonable price is scary.

I was thinking of LRR when I asked my local shop owner because he had custom ones done by legion and in talking to him about it he said the options were, massive run by legion. Smaller run by ultra-pro of crappy quality. Or basically a local print shop silk screening them which would have made a set of 50 cost over $40 and since they are supposed to help rep the store he wanted them to be inexpensive but quality.

He bit the bullet and ordered 1500 50 packs and has boxes and boxes of them in storage, wrote it off as a loss.

I was looking at that kickstarter, and the quality just isn't there. He is talking about not being happy with the quality which he should be, but that they will get better later when he gets different materials and equipment. (yeah) He is enthusiastic.
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Re: Request: LRR Card sleeves

Postby Kapol » 09 Jul 2012, 22:13

Lord Hosk wrote:I was looking at that kickstarter, and the quality just isn't there. He is talking about not being happy with the quality which he should be, but that they will get better later when he gets different materials and equipment. (yeah) He is enthusiastic.


Honestly, that was just something that came up that seemed interesting. My thoughts on it were that the best thing to do would be to wait until he fulfills the orders from the kickstarter funding, then see just what people think of them when they get them. Mostly because going just by the person who's making the product's word never seems like a wondering idea in my opinion. So it was mostly meant as a 'wait and see what comes of it' idea.

I'd love to get some LRR sleeves. But yea, it likely isn't going to happen (at least any time soon). Too expensive would mean low sales which would result in a loss. Low quality means a product people wouldn't be happy with. Neither outcome is good.
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Re: Request: LRR Card sleeves

Postby nicholasmc1 » 09 Jul 2012, 22:46

Would buy! I haven't any at the moment so I would need a couple of hundred.
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Re: Request: LRR Card sleeves

Postby JustAName » 09 Jul 2012, 23:18

Hrm. Hey, Woland, if you're still here, wanna change it to a poll to see if people would buy 50, 100, more than 100, or they would if they played Magic/had money/etc.? I know it won't change anything, but it might help to see who would be willing right now to invest. (With the caveat that you only check one of the buying options if you SERIOUSLY have the disposable income.)
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Re: Request: LRR Card sleeves

Postby Kapol » 09 Jul 2012, 23:52

Fayili wrote:Hrm. Hey, Woland, if you're still here, wanna change it to a poll to see if people would buy 50, 100, more than 100, or they would if they played Magic/had money/etc.? I know it won't change anything, but it might help to see who would be willing right now to invest. (With the caveat that you only check one of the buying options if you SERIOUSLY have the disposable income.)


The problem with that is it also comes down to their cost. I'd likely try to buy at least 100 for my deck, but I'd likely buy a decent amount (200-300) depending on the price. But if it's $20 for 100 sleeves, then $5-10 for international shipping and handling, the cost becomes hard for me to justify right now.

Edit: I'm also not entirely sure they'd be legal. From what I hear, custom sleeves are looked down upon in tournaments. Though it might not be a problem for the most part, it's another issue to consider.
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Re: Request: LRR Card sleeves

Postby Duckay » 10 Jul 2012, 00:59

While I don't doubt that you know more about this than I do, that seems weird and surprising. What's the logic behind banning custom sleeves?
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Re: Request: LRR Card sleeves

Postby The Jester » 10 Jul 2012, 01:41

Probably because it'd be possible to mark the sleeves with patterns or symbols so that the owner could tell what card was in the sleeve.
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Re: Request: LRR Card sleeves

Postby Graham » 10 Jul 2012, 02:02

I've never heard of somewhere banning custom sleeves, but it is technically to the presiding judge.
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Re: Request: LRR Card sleeves

Postby Lord Hosk » 10 Jul 2012, 05:44

The Jester wrote:Probably because it'd be possible to mark the sleeves with patterns or symbols so that the owner could tell what card was in the sleeve.

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I made this a little more clear than you would have to, and you could easily do more that three variations like one for your bomb card and always shuffle until it was on top. The edge of the creature one got cut off but its supposed to be only a vertical difference but you could make it slightly side to side too.

We were discussing this a few weeks back at the draft because the ones from the local shop you can kinda see if its a flip card. You cant make out the card but you can see that its not the standard magic back if its under a strong light at just the right angle.

You could get around deck checks by having a completely randomized set of identical cards in a identical box. So if someone was like "hey the pattern is a little different on your sleeves" say "oh I didnt notice but I had them checked out by the judge before we played" and call over the judge who you showed the other set to, he she would then verify that yes that was the sleeves and cards they checked...
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Re: Request: LRR Card sleeves

Postby The Jester » 10 Jul 2012, 05:57

Er... are you talking about the fact that the diamonds don't match up across the three, or something else? Because I legit can't see any other differences, and looking is making my eyes go funny. :?

I had actually been thinking something slightly different; my brother has a trick deck of playing cards, and the pattern on the back is sort of floral. The "trick" to the cards is that, with practice, you can tell what suit and number a card is from it's pattern.

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