Student sued by university for "graduating too quickly"

[Digital Dolphin]

A student who completed his bachelor's and master's degrees in just three semesters is being sued by his university, the School of Economics and Management in Essen, for loss of income, according to U.S. News And World Report.
To earn both a bachelor's and master's degree at the school would normally take 11 semesters, but Marcel Pohl sped up the process to just 20 months by having his two friends attend classes that conflicted with others he was enrolled in and take notes for him.

Source: http://www.businessinsider.com/a-german-university-is-suing-a-student-for-graduating-too-quickly-2012-7

This guy is amazing! I don't know what the school is worried about though... most people wouldn't be able to handle the workload he put on himself. I doubt many people would be able to replicate his achievement with ease. Those trying will likely need to repeat classes, and it would lead to more income for the university.

The article goes on to compare this guy to Hermione Granger from Harry Potter. I'd say that's pretty fair!

[Merrymaker_Mortalis]

I thought students relied on notes taken by others anyway from lectures.

This is normal. Just, instead of getting drunk at a pub, he was in the lecture of another course.

He has done nothing wrong.

[Kapol]

This is pretty stupid, and if the school wins then it will likely set a bad precedent for the future. As long as he payed for all the classes then I don't understand where the problem really is.

[Vigafre]

It probably has something to do with how the German university system works. I'm not positive, but I think the government helps pay for university, considering this guy only got sued for $4000ish (US).

[Merrymaker_Mortalis]

I don't know what valid grounds he's being sued on.

[Elomin Sha]

CHEWBACCA DEFENCE!

[Master Gunner]

From what I read in my local paper, the university's claim is that while they charge by the semester, what you're paying for is the degree, and he essentially short-changed them by only paying for 1/3rd of his degree.
There's also the position that the guy was essentially cramming for the entire two degrees, so how much will he actually retain, how much did he learn? Can the university honestly stand behind the degrees they gave him, as a matter of academic integrity?
On the other hand, any such argument really should have being made before they gave him the degrees, not after.

[Lord Hosk]

In the American post secondary (college/university) you pay per class/credit hour not per semester so while they would lose out on some registration/administration fees overall they wouldn't be out more than $1000 and those aren't lost revenue because they don't pay for his paperwork to be entered and reshifted in the system. Also they must not have to sign up for each class otherwise someone in administration would have had to have signed him up for the 60+ credits of classes per term. I had to get special permission from the dean of students to take 6 classes in one term and appear in front of her because it was over 20 credit hours.

It must be that the school has a per year or per semester rate and all the classes are "whoever shows up to test takes it and gets a grade entered" otherwise they knew he was taking the classes ahead of time.

[Lord Hosk]

...any such argument really should have being made before they gave him the degrees, not after.

This is the part I don't understand at all.

[Master Gunner]

For regular semesters (not summer courses), my university charges per-semester, and course registration is done through an online system that, as far as I know, has no checks/controls to stop you from taking too many classes, so long as their schedules do not overlap. There's also the possibility that he could challenge a course (write a 100% exam from his friends notes instead of attending lectures) which may well be done on a professor-by-professor basis. Depending on the structure and operations of the university, it would not be too far out there to assume that nobody in an administrative position knew what he was doing. Though presumably one should have gone over his transcript before granting him the degree (I know my vice-dean has to individually check and approve all graduates from my faculty).

[2stepz]

... is there no mandatory advisor checks and balances system? I think the highest course load allowed here is 24 course-hours per semester.

[Dutch guy]

Afaik the german system is very much like the Dutch system.

You enroll for (and pay for) a certain course for the year. You can then follow the classes you want (There's usually no roll-call at classes, although some have mandatory classes in which case you just need to show up to the first class to "get on the list)
So basically you pay for the year. Normally you'd need several years to get the degree, thus paying the yearly fee several times. Squishing all that work into 2 years means the university made less money PER COURSE. Added to that, the university gets a yearly "sponsoring" from the government. This is a fixed amount per student. Thus, by cramming all courses into just 2 years, the university made less per course.

[tak197]

IF they are that concerned about his retention of the information, I say that they should have him take a comprehensive test, similar to the PRAXIS or FE exams, which require the student to show knowledge of the work so they can be certified in that field. Like in my degree, I can get my masters in Speech Pathology, but before I can practice, I have to do a clinical fellowship AND pass a test to receive my Cs (Certificate of Clinical Competence).

[Avistew]

In France, you pay for the year too, but you don't pick your classes, they're given to you. You can pick the schedule of a given class, but you take the classes that go with that specific year in your specific degree, usually 25-30 hours worth (depends on the degree though).

Seems to me they should change the system if they don't like the way it can be "abused". I would have loved that system though. I dropped out of university because it was going to take years and I was really bored by how slow it was going. I would have happily taken double the number of classes (I would have borrowed someone recordings of the lectures I didn't attend. Most people recorded them anyways to listen to again when studying.)

[Keab42]

They should have just refused his degree and told him to take another year.

[empath]

From what I read in my local paper, the university's claim is that while they charge by the semester, what you're paying for is the degree, and he essentially short-changed them by only paying for 1/3rd of his degree.
There's also the position that the guy was essentially cramming for the entire two degrees, so how much will he actually retain, how much did he learn? Can the university honestly stand behind the degrees they gave him, as a matter of academic integrity?
On the other hand, any such argument really should have being made before they gave him the degrees, not after.

This last is my entire thoughts on the issue: if the university had ANY qualms about this student completing TWO degrees in just three semesters, WHY DID THEY GO AHEAD AND GIVE HIM SAID DEGREES???


(it also calls into question the integrity of the university, especially its bureaucrats who actually issue the degrees if they let something 'with so many concerns' slip past them; guessing if there's so little oversight there, this sort of news might 'devalue the university's sheepskins' and cause a drop in enrollment...)

[Avistew]

It seems that they didn't notice until after the fact.

[JustAName]

Or maybe he could have sued them if they didn't actually grant him the diploma, but now that he has it they can sue him?

[ecks]

An incredibly poorly managed school of management, why am I not surprised.

[empath]

Oh, yeah - should've realized it was a business school - this must be extra-curricular credit for someone's Ethics class...

[Dutch guy]

(Again this is based on the Dutch system)

Schools usually have a system whereby passing all classes/tests means you get the degree. Unless the university or school can give valid and grave reasons why you SHOULDN'T receive said degree they cannot NOT give it to you.

[Lord Chrusher]

Something tells me that this university will be changing its graduation policy the first they get. Expect other universities that charge by semester to introduce limits on the number of classes on can take at once or a minium number of semesters.

[Kapol]

CHEWBACCA DEFENCE!

Is that the defense where you simply throw Chewbacca at someone and run? I love that one!

Honestly, learning it's a semester-based school in terms of price, I still hold by the fact it's rather silly that they're suing him. How hard would it have been to create a system where the students HAVE to be in their own class to get credits? My classes currently take attendance and, if you miss too many days, your grades will suffer (I'm not sure if you can actually fail or not though)

[Lemegeton]

thats sickening. even our educational institutions are being run like corporations these days

[Dutch guy]

thats sickening. even our educational institutions are being run like corporations these days

Very much THIS! And this trend is going on in the Netherlands too. Schools needing to make a profit! It IS sickening. And as a student I can see the system starting to fail and suffer on all sides as assistants and good teachers are laid off because they can't take the amount of "side-work" they need to do anymore. And the politicians are blind to it all when the flaws in their plan are pointed out to them by a massive collection of teachers and students! (you know, the people who would know what they are talking about)