Venting Thread Delta - Now With Easy to Follow Rules

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Re: Venting Thread Delta - Now With Easy to Follow Rules

Postby My pseudonym is Ix » 27 May 2014, 01:05

Fezzul wrote:I was a virgin up until three and a half months ago, I admit, there were times when I wondered what I was doing wrong... but I always took comfort in Eddie Izzard's words.

"I was virgin until I was 21. 21! That's not cool at all. But I talk about it now, so now it is cool."

Slight paraphrasing, but the sentiment is about right.

There is pressure to lose your virginity, and it's worse in certain social circles than others, but the odds of getting a shag eventually are pretty good. That's just statistics. Unless you are actively avoiding it, you'll work it out eventually. And then once you do lose your virginity, you realize how little it matters. You don't change in to another person, the same problems will still be waiting for you at work, you'll still be good and bad at the same things, you'll still have to brush your teeth after eating chocolate and look both ways before crossing the street. No need to be ashamed whatever your preferences or sexual history, it is what it is.

*The shooter was a misogynist who blamed women for the fact that he was a virgin. He is an extreme example of what happens when prototype masculinity is espoused above all else, and sexual conquests are raised to the value of Chaos Emeralds. I don't know if it's a by-product of how he was raised, or the school he went to or societal/media influences (probably a little from each column). If you watch his pre-shooting video (It's online, I don't recommend it for anything other than scientific study) he comes off as narcissistic, shallow and boring (His vocabulary is paltry, and he is cliched and derivative as fuck). He is the textbook whiny teenager (I know he's in his twenties), he is clearly someone who needed to see a therapist, take life less seriously, and work out a clearer sense of priorities. The whole thing is just sad and stupid.

I can't feel anything but contempt and pity for the guy. Contempt because of what he did, and pity because that wanker is now a martyr to the male orgasm. Congratu-fucking-lations.

*I originally typed his name here, but he's had enough exposure already. The more people repeat the names of these wankers the more they approach folk hero status.


Re: the virginity thing, as a late teenage virgin who'd rather get it out of the way I've had this debate many a time. The conclusion I've reached that virginity is kinda a big deal until you've lost it, for the same reason that driving is a big deal until you've passed your test (not that I'm intending to equate sex with being tested). It's a new life experience, so it is kinda a big deal- once it's out of the way, sex may much more easily be relegated to 'just another facet of one's life'.

That's just an aside- whilst I hate what this guy has done, I actually disagree that this man has martyred the male cause. If anything, I personally perceive that he has martyred those he has shot- he has shown the rank madness and dangerousness of society's more outdated attitudes towards women. He has shown how dangerous this is. If ever anyone wonders if this kind of thing really matters, there is now a glaring ****ing example to point to.

I feel I should apologise for that paragraph, but I feel it's true.
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Re: Venting Thread Delta - Now With Easy to Follow Rules

Postby Merrymaker_Mortalis » 27 May 2014, 03:51

The only aspect of the person I sympathise with is the frustration of seeing girls who you like being in relationship with arse holes.

But, real life is not like The Sims or Mass Effect etc.. Not every person is a potential mate. People have free will. Accept it and move on.

But no, he was a (why is the strongest insulting swear word in the English language a derogatory word for a woman? Why can't we have a strong swear word that sums up how vile someone is without it coming down to someone's gentialia?)
He was a blinking idiot.

But the #yesallwomen thing shows that humans have the ability to make light in the darkness.
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Re: Venting Thread Delta - Now With Easy to Follow Rules

Postby Deedles » 27 May 2014, 06:31

He was a fucked up cretin who thought himself entitled to a woman. That about sums it up.
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Re: Venting Thread Delta - Now With Easy to Follow Rules

Postby Master Gunner » 27 May 2014, 06:57

Merrymaker_Mortalis wrote:why is the strongest insulting swear word in the English language a derogatory word for a woman? Why can't we have a strong swear word that sums up how vile someone is without it coming down to someone's gentialia?


Since Spring-Bro last year, I've being trying to replace genitalia-related insults with variations on "taint" and other scatological terms. Gender neutral, and it effectively conveys my meaning even when it's not a common insult.

Really, five year olds have it right. Why did we ever stop calling people "poo-poo heads"?
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Re: Venting Thread Delta - Now With Easy to Follow Rules

Postby Merrymaker_Mortalis » 27 May 2014, 06:57

True for both posts.

(In another thread I realised Arse Hole is a gender neutral insult.
But there's something about the sound of the syllables of that word which (if you lose its meaning) makes for a good sound for a swear word. Has a HARD Letter to begin with and since it's one syllable, the rest sounds like a snort. I highly doubt that word will (and even should) be reclaimed. It should be burned and buried.

I vote we just regress even further and literally SNARL as an insult.)
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Re: Venting Thread Delta - Now With Easy to Follow Rules

Postby AdmiralMemo » 27 May 2014, 07:15

Deedles wrote:He was a fucked up cretin who thought himself entitled to a woman. That about sums it up.
And yet... As I said, the entertainment industry has shoved down our throats that "Men are entitled to have a woman." So it is not rare that many people think that way. Therein lies the problem. You put an expectation into an already-disturbed individual, and then you subvert that expectation? You're going to get them reacting in a bad way.

I'm not trying to excuse him of his actions in any way. However, in a culture of rape, violence, and above all, entitlement, it's just going to keep happening, unless we do something to change the culture.

We need to step forward and do something about movies, books, TV, etc. that reinforce this notion of entitlement. We need to rally against these and promote ones that give a more positive message. People need to realize that they're not entitled to anything.
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Re: Venting Thread Delta - Now With Easy to Follow Rules

Postby Merrymaker_Mortalis » 27 May 2014, 07:33

It doesn't help that sandbox romance in video games is very much entitlement. If you want to get into a romance in some games, basically NPCs have a "Can Romance" or "Can't Romance". If you woo Alister as a female Grey Warden, he's not going to say "No sorry, I don't feel the same way". Likewise if you try to woo Merrill in Dragon Age 2.

I'm not blaming video games. But sandbox romance in video games is entitlement romance. I'm saying it perhaps gives the wrong impression of romance. And if you're using Mass Effect as a reference on how to get into a relationship, you are in need of assistance or help.

I want a video game where if romance is included, it is dealt with realistically.
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Re: Venting Thread Delta - Now With Easy to Follow Rules

Postby empath » 27 May 2014, 08:01

In all honesty 'fucked-up' Japan might have us there: Visual Novels.

You typically have several disparate 'prospects' with differing interests and personalities, and you have to develop your character DIFFERENTLY to appeal to each of them.

If you want to woo the athletic boy/girl, you need to join sporting teams and clubs and spend your free time exercising and training your skills in various sports.

If you want to hook up with the drama geek, you need to study plays and literature and take drama classes.

Et cetera; if you find a particular person appealing and interesting enough to develop a relationship with YOU ADAPT YOURSELF TO ALSO BE APPEALING TO THEM.

Being in a serious relationship with someone IS A TWO-WAY STREET; NEITHER party should be a puppet of the other, making all the changes and totally sublimating their interests and even personality just to appease the other, but BOTH should take interest in the other's needs and wants AND TRY TO ACCOMMODATE THEM.

Hell, when I first heard of the shooting, and how this git did it because he kept getting turned down, my first thought was "what were you doing wrong, son?" and unbidden, a line from one of the late Tim Wilson's songs leapt to my lips "♫You been married nine times? Hell, maybe it's you.♫"

He shouldn't receive any sympathy for repeatedly getting shot down; he should be kindly persuaded (after rehabilitation is finished) that maybe he should try to be the kinda guy that the girls he's interested in find appealing.... (top of the list is obviously: "Not murderously out of control" :P )
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Re: Venting Thread Delta - Now With Easy to Follow Rules

Postby auberginequeen » 27 May 2014, 21:22

(Disclaimer: I am no Psychiatrist. I'm just someone who's interested in psychology. Any speculation on my part should be taken with a grain of salt.)

His case is interesting. I read up on it a few days ago and I ended up reading a chunk of his manifesto. He had a serious sense of entitlement not only with respect to women but with respect to money, popularity, etc. Very narcissistic, very concerned with public appearances and status. He notes that he, his mother, and his sister ended up moving into an apartment at one point, and because he associated apartments with a "lower-class" type of people in his own mind, he stopped inviting his friends over to visit because he was embarassed. Then he expressed dismay when they grew apart.

Further still, he describes almost everyone he met in very negative terms. He was instantly envious of and hostile towards anyone who he perceived as popular or better-functioning than himself (e.g. got along well with girls). He goes on and on about how the world isn't fair and that he doesn't see why "everyone else" has an easier time of it than he did. As a fairly typical heterosexual male going through puberty he had a lot of urges, but no one really talked to him about them it seems, and so he ended up resenting his parents, especially his father. He also came to resent women pretty significantly because he wanted them but was frustrated as he found them intimidating yet placed them on a high pedestal. In his manifesto around the age of 17 he started dreaming of banning sex, because if he couldn't have it, no one could.

The kid was socially stunted and slow to develop physically. He couldn't reconcile his bodily urges and status obsession with the fact that no one seemed to be attracted to him. He blamed his father for not teaching him to "woo" women. Some sort of communication broke down there it seems because he took a long time to realize that you had to make an effort to be attractive. Unfortunately, when he finally figured that out, he came to the conclusion that it's things like nice clothing and fancy cars that women liked, and so he continued to strike out, much to his dismay. Resentment built up, fuelled by endless rumination, until he snapped I guess.

One thing that interests me is that he played a lot of WoW (many, many hours a day; he admits he was addicted for a long time) during his teenage years. I don't want to bash video games or WoW or anything (I am a gamer after all) but I do know that MMOs tend to follow a sort of "if you do x, you will receive y" format, where objectives and rewards are clearly defined. I wonder if this in some way contributed to his perceptions of the world being "unfair." Lots of people have been blaming the MRA (Men's Rights Activists) movement for encouraging his misogynistic views but, to their credit, a number of individuals on MRA-affiliated sites spoke out against his misogynistic and frankly kind of insane posts about banning sex, hypothetically killing all other men in the world, etc. While I'm no fan of the MRA there was definitely way more at work here.

Bottom line, deeply disturbed individual. It's unclear what went wrong and when, unfortunately. Could it have been prevented? Maybe. There's not much certainty here. It has been clear for a while that media which encourages the commodification of sex and the "acquisition" of women does us no favours as a society. Whether removing it from this situation would have changed anything, who knows. Perhaps his rage may have been channeled elsewhere. I present you with what I've been able to surmise. I can offer no grand conclusions.

FWIW one more detailed article reported he was seeing multiple therapists and had been diagnosed as having Asperger's syndrome. Obviously we cannot and definitely should not even consider blaming his actions on such a diagnosis. The vast majority people with Asperger's are perfectly reasonable. However, it is possible that the social difficulties which are characteristic of mildly autistic individuals may have contributed to some degree. The underlying narcissism is the much bigger issue, of course, but it could explain his feeling like an outsider.

---

Now, why I came to this thread: I helped the dumbest spider today. I rescued him from the sink using a piece of card only to have him run straight back into it 4 separate times. Finally I released him on the floor, but I can't help but feel the experience is reminiscent of Sisyphus.
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Re: Venting Thread Delta - Now With Easy to Follow Rules

Postby Darkobra » 27 May 2014, 22:22

Somebody used Sisyphus correctly in context! I shall let the world live another day!
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Re: Venting Thread Delta - Now With Easy to Follow Rules

Postby Bebop Man » 27 May 2014, 22:31

I remember describing Demon's Souls that way.
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Re: Venting Thread Delta - Now With Easy to Follow Rules

Postby Ptangmatik » 28 May 2014, 00:41

I still have a hard time understanding why he never tried flattening out the top of the hill slightly before going back down for the boulder again.
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Re: Venting Thread Delta - Now With Easy to Follow Rules

Postby Bebop Man » 28 May 2014, 00:49

Maybe the geography of Tartarus isn't of the flattening kind.
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Re: Venting Thread Delta - Now With Easy to Follow Rules

Postby phlip » 28 May 2014, 00:50

I thought the point was that he never actually made it to the top? It always rolled away from him at some point on the way up...

Also, if you've just been sentenced to an eternity of rock-pushing for attempting to outsmart the gods, maybe your response shouldn't be to try to figure out how to outsmart your punishment...
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Re: Venting Thread Delta - Now With Easy to Follow Rules

Postby Merrymaker_Mortalis » 28 May 2014, 02:01

Well I almost took a driving test which I wasn't mentally ready for.

Society pushes all of us to try and reach for our goals. To be confident and optimistic. To not be pessimistic. To avoid looking at the worst possible outcome.
I'm sure that works with somethings.

But not for driving.

Driving is something different. For starters you can always push back your test.
If you're not entirely confident driving, you're not going to be a consistently safe driver.
You could pass your test, but you're passing your test when you're at your best, rather than at your worst. You're never going to be driving at your best state of mind always.
After you pass your test, it's much harder to get driving experience than before.

I'm pissed off that I succumed to socety's pressures. It clouded my judgement. I was about to take a driving test which I wasn't ready for, where the best outcome for me was to fail. If the most beneficial thing that could happen is to fail to achieve it, then there's no point doing it.

Fuck you society telling me how to do things.
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Re: Venting Thread Delta - Now With Easy to Follow Rules

Postby Jamfalcon » 28 May 2014, 08:30

Merrymaker_Mortalis wrote:After you pass your test, it's much harder to get driving experience than before.

I'm curious why you say that. The opposite is true with Canadian (or at least BC) driving laws. Here, before you take your first road test you need a supervisor who is over 25 and has a license in the passenger seat at all times. After you pass it there's no need to coordinate with someone else if you want to go somewhere, beyond borrowing a car if you don't own one.
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Re: Venting Thread Delta - Now With Easy to Follow Rules

Postby Merrymaker_Mortalis » 28 May 2014, 09:41

It's insurance.
It's costs a lot more to be insured as a recent test passer than it is when you're a learner. Because theoretically, you can solo drive, thus companies will charge as much as they can get away with because of stats.

When you have a passenger (who has to be a qualified driver), there's an assumption the passenger will intervene if needed. Thus the risk factor is reduced. So they charge less.

But yeah, the practical test isn't like any exam. It's something else. You pass it to drive solitarily, not to jump through a hoop.
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Re: Venting Thread Delta - Now With Easy to Follow Rules

Postby Jamfalcon » 28 May 2014, 09:58

Ah, got it. It may very well be the same in that regard here, since everyone I know just learned on cars insured in their parent's names.

The process here is an electronic multiple choice quiz to earn a learner's licence, which lets you drive supervised. You keep that for a year, then can take a road test to get a new driver licence, which only allows one non-family passenger. After having that for two years, there's a second road test to get a full licence.
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Re: Venting Thread Delta - Now With Easy to Follow Rules

Postby 2stepz » 28 May 2014, 10:25

Merrymaker_Mortalis wrote:I also forgot to mention that the reporter dude assumed the guy was heterosexual or even sexual at all.


I'm assuming this was still referencing the incident in California? If so, the 'reporter dude' didn't assume anything. The misogynistic self-entitled jackass published several YouTube videos explaining exactly why he was going to do what he did, in his own voice, some shot in his very expensive car with his face prominently featured. This is not to mention the ~140 page manifesto explaining in great detail what he planned and why. There was no doubt that the immature idiot was heterosexual. There is no doubt that he did what he did because the 'hot chicks' wouldn't give him access to their personal space.



As for the whole 'every man is entitled to a woman' mindset... That actually leads to other problems that I haven't seen mentioned anywhere. It contributes to the mentality that by a certain age, if a gal is still single, there's something wrong with her. That she's not 'good enough.' Just something to think about.
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Re: Venting Thread Delta - Now With Easy to Follow Rules

Postby Merrymaker_Mortalis » 28 May 2014, 10:47

2stepz wrote:
Merrymaker_Mortalis wrote:I also forgot to mention that the reporter dude assumed the guy was heterosexual or even sexual at all.


I'm assuming this was still referencing the incident in California? If so, the 'reporter dude' didn't assume anything. The misogynistic self-entitled jackass published several YouTube videos explaining exactly why he was going to do what he did, in his own voice, some shot in his very expensive car with his face prominently featured. This is not to mention the ~140 page manifesto explaining in great detail what he planned and why. There was no doubt that the immature idiot was heterosexual. There is no doubt that he did what he did because the 'hot chicks' wouldn't give him access to their personal space.



As for the whole 'every man is entitled to a woman' mindset... That actually leads to other problems that I haven't seen mentioned anywhere. It contributes to the mentality that by a certain age, if a gal is still single, there's something wrong with her. That she's not 'good enough.' Just something to think about.


Nope.
I meant this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pE-5sm_Iqts
7:50

I'm sorry for the misunderstanding. I realise how posting that statement out of direct context would have caused misunderstanding.
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Re: Venting Thread Delta - Now With Easy to Follow Rules

Postby AdmiralMemo » 28 May 2014, 11:10

2stepz wrote:It contributes to the mentality that by a certain age, if a gal is still single, there's something wrong with her. That she's not 'good enough.' Just something to think about.
The old "Christmas Cake" mentality that Beej mentioned on his stream.
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Re: Venting Thread Delta - Now With Easy to Follow Rules

Postby empath » 28 May 2014, 13:55

Welp. I got to work today with a note that I've got an interview with the Crown Prosecutor on Friday, right in th emiddle of my shift.

It stems from the whole mess llast week.

For those that don't know (and since I'm probably going to have to restate my repeated statement, this'll probably help me):

I was getting off work, leaving the front door of the supermarket and walking to my car, just ahead of the store manager, who was also done for the night.

It's maybe 10:15pm or so (the store is open 24/7). He follows the sidewalk along the storefront as his car is more in that direction, and I take a diagonal across the lot to where I've parked my parents' car. We exchange good nights, and I begin to diverge from him.

Ahead of me, and to my right - following down a 'lane' between the parking spots - is a customer pushing her cart of groceries; maybe ten yards from the curb past a few parking spaces is a 'cart corral', and then more parking spaces. As she passes it, the front corner of her cart catches the edge of the corral and jolts to a stop, tipping a bit. A bag of groceries up in the 'baby seat' part of the cart tips over and spills items onto the ground, an orange rolls up the slight grade in my direction.

I change direction, walk quickly to the orange and crouch down to stop it. I'm maybe ten feet from her. As I trap the orange I'm saying "here you go".

At that point, she turns, startled (maybe she was already flustered the cart collision), reaches into her pocket and calls out "Stay back! I have a knife!" as she withdraws a swiss army knife and opens the blade, to brandish it at me.

I nod, rise and step back, both empty hands out to show I mean no harm and say "Okay, that's fine, sorry"

At this point, the store manager steps up beside me and I see him outstretch one hand in a placating gesture, and I hear him say "Nobody's going to hurt you; you're safe - don't worry."

She babbles a bit (my hearing sucks, and if someone isn't either right next to me or using stage enunciation, it all becomes just a mumble), and then he asks her to put the knife down. She lays it on the ground, and then we talk for a bit, calming her and clearing the tension - all three of us gather up her loose groceries, adn then the store manager asks her to come back into the store with us. He explains that due to a weapon being involved, he's required to notify the police. I mention that I did not feel threatened in the cirumstances, but again...effing company policy about any disturbance on store property has to be notified...and it'd probably look better for her to be present to answer the police's enquiries.

We go to the community room' upstairs and chill for a while as we wait for the police - store manager used the phone in the neighbouring manager's office to call.

Two constables arrive, with no lights lit, thankfully - it must have been clear that there was no urgency or need to draw attention (I imagine they do the same to come take caught shoplifters off our hands).

They get a summary of things from the store manager, then ask the woman for her ID. They radio in a check, which I didn't overhear clearly. Then they split up; the female constable stays with the woman in the community room to get her statement, and the male constable takes us outside. He goes into the manager's office to take the store manager's statement first while I waited in the hall, then we switched.

During my statement, I made it clear that I felt no threat to my person from a person standing so far away with just a penknife.

After my statement was taking, I was 'excused.' I went home.

A couple of days later, I was asked - in the middle of my shift - to speak with the Company lawyer; I went up to the community room and repeated my statement. I managed to find out that the woman had been charged with causing a public disturbance and assault with a weapon. As far as I can remember, the three of us were the only ones in the parking lot at the time.

I can still accept the disturbance part, especially if the complaint was pressed by the company because it happened on company property. Again, I feel the assault charge is bunk - Canadian law defines "assault" as 'a legitimate threat of harm' (doesn't matter if it's just a toy gun, if you make the victim believe it's real and that you WILL shoot them with it, that's assault), but at no time did I feel she either was ACTUALLY threatening me with harm, nor COULD she reasonably carry out an attack on me in the situation we were in.

So yeah.

I gotta speak with the Prosecutor in two days...again in the middle of a friggin' shift, when we're short-handed. I only hope I can convince him or her that the assault charge isn't going to work; they have no 'victim'.

And here I am, a fucking wreck about all this; I still can't shake this damn cold, I'm worried as hell about this woman - did they relase her, did she have to effing post BAIL over this bullshit? Does she have a lawyer?

And I'm SUPPOSED TO BE THE 'VICTIM' IN THIS WHOLE THING.

Please; seriously try to convice me the 'justice' system works for the people.

I've been a defendant (traffic court, it was years ago, and I was kinda medicated at the time) and I've attended family court regarding my wife's child support.

Let me tell you, I know they all mean well, but more and more I get a whole 'road of good intentions' feel, leading to a bizarre and incomprehensible Kafka-meets-Rube-Goldberg "Justice Machine" that sucks people in, and maybe spits them out, or maybe doesn't...

Hell, the whole 'legal/criminal aftermath' is having more of a (detrimental) effect on me than the 'crime' ever did!


And as for my store manager, I've lost some of my trust in him; he's a great guy, a very nice person and I don't think I've EVER seen him raise his voice - even during the 'assault' he was calm and soothing as he spoke to her.

but, the whole issue of 'company policy to press charges whenever a weapon is involved' is giving me a little bit of a 'Nuremberg Defense' taint on him when I look at him now. :(

tl;dr: life sucks; the 'justice' system sucks, bureaucracies suck, good people get screwed, and people you admire aren't what you think they are.
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Re: Venting Thread Delta - Now With Easy to Follow Rules

Postby Darkobra » 28 May 2014, 16:50

Man, my liver's playing up again. Pain? I'm always in pain. Don't even notice it. But when it turns into me not eating for a week because my body won't accept food, there's cause for concern.
Lyinginbedmon wrote:You are clearly some form of incorporeal undead.
Like a vampire.
But with knives.
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empath
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Re: Venting Thread Delta - Now With Easy to Follow Rules

Postby empath » 29 May 2014, 02:15

Oh, for FUCX'S sake, SERIOUSLY?

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I suppose I should be happy that Newfoundland is the wrong sort of geography for tornadoes, but...
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Re: Venting Thread Delta - Now With Easy to Follow Rules

Postby Merrymaker_Mortalis » 29 May 2014, 03:58

Because I often don't know if someone is being an arse hole to me in text, or is trying to be helpful, I vote for all text communications we use the Elcor system.
Elcor are an alien in Mass Effect who speak in a deadpan tone. They encountered problems when people got offended as they thought the Elcor didn't care or they were being sarcastic.
They developed the solution to state what emotion or tone in which their words are meant to be in.

If people started using things like:

Being an Arse Hole:
Playful Teasing:
Informing:
etc...

People can hopefully understand when someone replies "Really?" to something they said online.

I made a statement to someone I idolised about a topic on Twitter and he replied with "Really?". I don't know if that meant sarcasm, if he was challenging what I just said or received new knowledge. I can ask what he meant. But with the amount of ambiguous text communications going on, it seems a lot of effort to ask each time "were you being a dick or am I just someone who feels like everyone hates me and I read everything people tell me that I am indeed hate worthy?"

I guess a different solution is. Don't write ambiguous things in text. Word it so misunderstandings are minimalised. Words and language is used to help another person understand what you're trying to tell them. Misunderstandings implies there was a failure in communications.

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