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Posted: **05 Nov 2012, 15:38**

Tomorrow is election day in the United States. If you are a United States citizen, and you are over the age of 18, please, please vote. No matter who you're voting for, vote. Make sure you know what the ID rules are in your state, don't let anybody turn you away or keep you from voting.

...

I know there's the presumption on this board that virtually everyone is voting for Obama. I don't know that that is true. If you're undecided or considering voting for Mitt Romney, I urge you to consider reading what The Economist, Silicon Valley, YA Author and Vlogbrother John Green and the entire country of Canada have to say.

Mitt Romney has promised to cut non-discretionary spending by 5% across the board. That would impact the NSF and the NIH, both of which fund the work I do to improve the efficacy of healthcare in this country, something private industry is currently failing spectacularly at. He also wants to defund PBS, the TV channel that got me interested in science in the first place. He also wants to make it impossible for me to get married.

Your vote will seriously impact my life for the next four years. I urge you to think carefully about it. Thanks.

And for all the Canadians, please cradle me softly while I weep for my country. And/or save me a spot on your couch if Mitt Romney caves to the evangelicals and decides to outlaw homosexuality a la Uganda.

Also, when you've voted, you should make a post here saying so so I can shower you with congratulations.

Posted: **05 Nov 2012, 16:01**

I don't understand human beings who believe everyone must look out for themselves fullstop. If you have trouble you're on your own to sort your own mess.
There is a reason why humans have evolved a preference of being in communities. Communities offer protection when you fall on hard times.

Posted: **05 Nov 2012, 16:12**

I am curious who others are voting. I know I'm going to be voting, who I'm going to be voting for, and why I'm going to vote for one person over the other. Sadly it seems like that neither option are really all that good. The choice is really between someone I don't care for and someone I really dislike. Which is a bit depressing in all honesty.

Posted: **05 Nov 2012, 16:20**

The Economist wrote:The problem is that there are a lot of Romneys and they have committed themselves to a lot of dangerous things.

Posted: **05 Nov 2012, 16:21**

Lord Chrusher wrote:
The Economist wrote:The problem is that there are a lot of Romneys and they have committed themselves to a lot of dangerous things.

What like flinging their underwear at me? Let me see if it stops BULLETS.
also, it looks like obamas got the natives vote

Posted: **05 Nov 2012, 16:43**

Also, Romney wants to open all plane doors.

Posted: **05 Nov 2012, 16:49**

As much as I enjoy a good silly out-of-context Romney meme, I'd prefer this thread to not degenerate into that, especially since after tomorrow, none of that will matter anymore.

I'd rather we discuss voting (once people start heading to the polls) or the more pressing issues of the campaign.

Posted: **05 Nov 2012, 17:02**

Kapol wrote:I am curious who others are voting. I know I'm going to be voting, who I'm going to be voting for, and why I'm going to vote for one person over the other. Sadly it seems like that neither option are really all that good. The choice is really between someone I don't care for and someone I really dislike. Which is a bit depressing in all honesty.

There are third parties. I'm voting for Gary Johnson of the Libertarian Party. If he can get 5% of the popular vote the Libertarian party will get recognized as a national party and will stand a chance in 2016. Not to mention the Libertarian Senators and Congressmen/women that will have a better chance at getting elected. Gary Johnson knows he won't win, but if he gets 5% it can end the two party system.

Posted: **05 Nov 2012, 17:17**

Drdiggit42 wrote:
Kapol wrote:I am curious who others are voting. I know I'm going to be voting, who I'm going to be voting for, and why I'm going to vote for one person over the other. Sadly it seems like that neither option are really all that good. The choice is really between someone I don't care for and someone I really dislike. Which is a bit depressing in all honesty.

There are third parties. I'm voting for Gary Johnson of the Libertarian Party. If he can get 5% of the popular vote the Libertarian party will get recognized as a national party and will stand a chance in 2016. Not to mention the Libertarian Senators and Congressmen/women that will have a better chance at getting elected. Gary Johnson knows he won't win, but if he gets 5% it can end the two party system.

I admire the sentiment, and respect your decision to vote third party, but I doubt either of these statements is true.

I would venture to guess that Johnson will get at most about %1 of the popular vote.

I would also venture to guess that even if he got 5% of the popular vote, the Republican and Democratic parties would do their best to strangle the Libertarian party in its crib.

Even if they didn't, I highly doubt the Libertarian party will stand a chance to be elected in 2016. At best they might get included in a debate. I also doubt a Libertarian stands a chance to win an election in the US for the next twenty to thirty years, unless campaign finance reform actually occurs.

Gary Johnson getting 5% of the popular vote would not end the two party system. Campaign finance reform is the only thing that has a chance of that.

I do like most of his views, though. It'd be nice to have a socially liberal, fiscally conservative person in the running. I do take issue with the fact that he doesn't believe health care is a right, since basically every civilized nation on earth has come to the opposite conclusion.

That said, by all means, if you're inclined to not vote for either candidate, and you live in a locked-in state, vote third party. If you reside in a swing state, though, I'd strongly urge you to consider otherwise, because leaving the choice between "vague dislike" and "hate" to everyone else could lead to "hate" being elected to public office.

Posted: **05 Nov 2012, 17:27**

Drdiggit42 wrote:There are third parties. I'm voting for Gary Johnson of the Libertarian Party. If he can get 5% of the popular vote the Libertarian party will get recognized as a national party and will stand a chance in 2016. Not to mention the Libertarian Senators and Congressmen/women that will have a better chance at getting elected. Gary Johnson knows he won't win, but if he gets 5% it can end the two party system.

Honestly, even if another party is recognized, I highly doubt there will be a real chance for a third party to win presidency for a long time to come. The reason being is because of the fact so many people have the idea that 'I'm a Democrat' or 'I'm a Republican' drilled into their mind that they'll blindly vote for any candidate that shares their affiliation. Even those who don't will lean towards the two major parties candidates since they'll stand the better chance. And in many cases they'll feel that their support for the candidate they prefer is more important then taking a risk on someone who isn't likely going to get elected.

For example, I mentioned I don't care for any candidate. That's absoultely true. But I cannot stand Romney, and I worry what might happen if he's elected. As such, while I don't care for Obama, I'd rather have my voice heard in his favor. He actually stands a chance rather then voting for someone with no chance in hell of winning and having the candidate that I dislike so much win office. My vote won't be one to turn the tides I'm sure. But at the same time I know that if Romney did win that I'd feel like I'd wasted my vote.

It might give the senators, congresswo/men etc a better chance of course. But a better chance isn't the same thing as actually having good odds. I feel the two-party ideal is too ingrained in the public mindset to be challenged on a large scale at the moment. Which is depressing. I despise the two-party system. But, at least in this election, I feel the difference is too important to really break it for this election.

EDIT: Or basically what Ditto said.

Double ninja EDIT: I actually do have a fair amount of respect for voting for third-parties. It might not work out, but at least it's making your voice heard in some fashion. It's just too bad there's not more chance for it to actually make a large impact.

Posted: **05 Nov 2012, 17:32**

Kapol wrote:I am curious who others are voting. I know I'm going to be voting, who I'm going to be voting for, and why I'm going to vote for one person over the other. Sadly it seems like that neither option are really all that good. The choice is really between someone I don't care for and someone I really dislike. Which is a bit depressing in all honesty.

You are voting for President Obama for President, just like I am, no matter what you mark on your ballot. F*ing electoral college.

Dont forget you have 6 ballot proposals to think about too, and at least one of them isnt a complete sham.

Posted: **05 Nov 2012, 17:34**

I'm voting, and not for Obama, because the only change I've seen in the past 4 years is for the worse. Haven't decided who I am voting for, though.

The fact is, though, that my vote is meaningless. I could vote for Obama, Romney, or Mickey Mouse. In a deep blue state like Maryland, Obama's going to get it, no matter what.

If we can get the Electoral College system reformed so it's more like Maine or Nebraska, then my vote might actually mean something.

Posted: **05 Nov 2012, 17:38**

AdmiralMemo wrote:I'm voting, and not for Obama, because the only change I've seen in the past 4 years is for the worse. Haven't decided who I am voting for, though.

You are in maryland right?

you are voting for president Obama no matter who you mark on your ballot.

F*ing electoral college.

Posted: **05 Nov 2012, 17:42**

Lord Hosk wrote:You are voting for President Obama for President, just like I am, no matter what you mark on your ballot. F*ing electoral college.

Dont forget you have 6 ballot proposals to think about too, and at least one of them isnt a complete sham.

Yea, the whole electoral college thing makes a lot of it fairly moot. But that's another issue entirely and a deeper discussion then I intend to get into at the moment. But from what I've seen, MI is leaning Democrat, not fully there. It's very unlikely we'll vote anything else, but it's possible. Then again it's also possible that I'll win the lottery without playing. So fun.

I have been looking into the ballot proposals as well. Not sure what I'm going to vote on them, but they aren't something I've been ignoring. Been meaning to get a more in-depth look but I wasn't able to find any good place to find info on them.

Posted: **05 Nov 2012, 17:47**

Lord Hosk wrote:
AdmiralMemo wrote:I'm voting, and not for Obama, because the only change I've seen in the past 4 years is for the worse. Haven't decided who I am voting for, though.
You are in maryland right?

you are voting for president Obama no matter who you mark on your ballot.

F*ing electoral college.

That's why I stated:

AdmiralMemo wrote:The fact is, though, that my vote is meaningless. I could vote for Obama, Romney, or Mickey Mouse. In a deep blue state like Maryland, Obama's going to get it, no matter what.

If we can get the Electoral College system reformed so it's more like Maine or Nebraska, then my vote might actually mean something.

Posted: **05 Nov 2012, 17:57**

Kapol wrote:I have been looking into the ballot proposals as well. Not sure what I'm going to vote on them, but they aren't something I've been ignoring. Been meaning to get a more in-depth look but I wasn't able to find any good place to find info on them.

The Michigan NPR website has a very good analysis.

http://www.michiganradio.org/post/michigan-radios-guide-ballot-proposals

The funny thing is that three of them are worded as such that even if they pass they dont pass. The energy bill says "all utility companies must convert X% to "green energy" by 2022, and can only increase the consumers rates by 1% per year." Hey thats cool, BUT

Caveat "Unless they need to increase rates by more"
Caveat two "unless green energy isnt economically viable then the date gets pushed out to 2032, at which time another extension can be requested."

Proposal 6 "the anti detroit bridge proposal" says it would be retroactive to before the bridge got approved, but you cant do that you cant make a law that changes something in the past.

Posted: **05 Nov 2012, 18:04**

I am so sick of the RNC phoning me and the ads. I can't even vote. I found out a number of my acquaintances/friends I've made in the USA this year are voting Romney. Which I won't lie, makes me judge them hard core. I'm not in love with politics and debates, but I just don't understand how people can be pro Romney. At all.

Let me summarize how I feel with this photo.

Posted: **05 Nov 2012, 18:11**

Rocket, I am just as perplexed.

That said, I don't know how you could vote for him on economics either...

-m

Posted: **05 Nov 2012, 18:11**

AdmiralMemo wrote:
If we can get the Electoral College system reformed so it's more like Maine or Nebraska, then my vote might actually mean something.

[/quote]

I really like the way that do that, the at senate votes go to whomever won the state popular vote but each congressional district gets to cast its own vote.

The problem with that is the race to 270 swings wildly out of control and the two parties are no longer in control which they would never let happen. In the current election if a third party candidate won 4 key electoral college votes, thats the ball game, it goes to the house of representatives and senate.

The only real way to break the two party system is to break the electoral college, at which point the president basically becomes a congressional appointment which really hurts the separation of power. .

Posted: **05 Nov 2012, 18:13**

Matt wrote:Rocket, I am just as perplexed.

That said, I don't know how you could vote for him on economics either...

-m

Every. Fucking. Day. I get stuck in traffic behind a yahoo with a ROMNEY bumper sticker. I just want to take my foot off the break and give the car a little tap. Not to hurt anyone, but like a nudge to say "you're a fucking idiot".

This probably makes me a bad person. I'd say I'm sorry to the people on this forum who are pro Romney but... I'm not.

Posted: **05 Nov 2012, 18:15**

Even if you live in a lock-in state, your vote matters.

You'll be voting for your representatives in congress, as well as state and local representatives. Those votes count in a huge way.

If you live in Maryland, you will also be voting on Marriage Equality. The question is question 6. If you vote FOR it, you will be voting to allow gay and lesbians to get a civil marriage license.

Please, please, please, if nothing else, vote FOR this. Maryland getting gay marriage gives Pennsylvania a much greater chance of doing the same in the next decade.

Posted: **05 Nov 2012, 18:18**

Actually, here:

I don't know who on this board is from what state, so there you go.

Maine, Maryland, and Washington are for granting marriage rights. Minnesota is the only one that is trying to ban (non-existant) gay marriages in their state.

Posted: **05 Nov 2012, 18:20**

TheRocket wrote:
Matt wrote:Rocket, I am just as perplexed.

That said, I don't know how you could vote for him on economics either...

-m

Every. Fucking. Day. I get stuck in traffic behind a yahoo with a ROMNEY bumper sticker. I just want to take my foot off the break and give the car a little tap. Not to hurt anyone, but like a nudge to say "you're a fucking idiot".

This probably makes me a bad person. I'd say I'm sorry to the people on this forum who are pro Romney but... I'm not.

The fact that mittens or his party is considered even remotely electable is a fact that makes me irrationally angry. Thankfully it's not as in my face, but I seriously know the impulse you're describing.

-m

Posted: **05 Nov 2012, 18:21**

Kind of off but on topic...I photographed a gay wedding at the most beautiful church in DC. It was the most amazing liberal cathedral. I was so honoured. The reception was at the couples vineyard they owned and ran in Maryland. Even though the church was amazing, it was a damn shame they couldn't get married at the place they built from the ground up and had spent their entire lives together making.

Off topic, their vineyard reception was the first place I had seen a firefly. I almost lost my shit.

Posted: **05 Nov 2012, 18:25**

I am opposed to President Obama on a great many fronts not the least of which is the health care reform act which has a few good causes about womens health and equality of cost, and the insurance gap loss of coverage BS.

The problem is at the heart of it, everyone in the country is forced to purchase health care from private for profit companies. To say that "if everyone has to buy insurance it will bring the price down" is a complete BS idea. I $56 a month more in Michigan for car insurance as opposed to in Alaska which has worse driving conditions and more per capita insurance claims. Why? because in Michigan you HAVE to buy car insurance.

If you require everyone to purchase a product there is no incentive to reduce the cost, they just increase profits.

That being said, I am opposed to Mitt Romney because he is fiscally retarded and every time he talks about a politically controversial topic he sounds like a freshman in speech class or a beauty pageant contestant.

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