Back By Popular Demand, It's Famous Last Words!

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Re: 365 Famous Last Words for 2014

Postby empath » 04 Feb 2014, 20:07

Ugh; Turtledove's mean. :P
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Re: 365 Famous Last Words for 2014

Postby Prospero101 » 04 Feb 2014, 20:13

Mean to Abner Dowling, to be sure.

File under "Things That Only Make Sense If You've Read His Books."
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Re: 365 Famous Last Words for 2014

Postby empath » 04 Feb 2014, 20:20

IN JOKE IS BEST JOKE! 8)

(and no, I haven't read any of that alternate history saga; kept thinking about it, but apparently my 'dickbag detector' was going off ;) )
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Re: 365 Famous Last Words for 2014

Postby Prospero101 » 04 Feb 2014, 20:22

XD George Custer notwithstanding, it's a great series with a lot of interesting detail. Check it out. Start with How Few Remain.
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Re: 365 Famous Last Words for 2014

Postby Prospero101 » 05 Feb 2014, 08:22

Going a little obscure and medieval for today's last words, in an effort to be more global.

John the Blind of Luxembourg, Count of Luxembourg and King of Bohemia, said, "By God's will, let it never be said that a King of Bohemia ever ran from battle!"

He died fighting at the Battle of Crecy at the age of fifty. It's rather impressive, really, given that he'd been blind for ten years.

The Battle of Crecy took place on August 26, 1346 near Crecy, France. It was one of the deciding battles of the Hundred Years War, mostly for one simple reason. Edward III's knights had finally realized that you should get off your damned horse and not be afraid to fight elbow to elbow with the archers and pikemen. This new tactic allowed them to overpower a vastly superior French force and bring Calais under the English crown as an exclave.
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Re: 365 Famous Last Words for 2014

Postby My pseudonym is Ix » 05 Feb 2014, 09:04

Ah, Crecy. Another rather interesting battle; one of its lasting contributions to the world was that it was essentially the beginning of the end for the ruling classes- it was the first time that peasants had been decisive in defeating mounted knights and from then onward the myth of the knight's invincibility on the battlefield declined slowly over several centuries. This actually inspired Edward III to, just a few years later, create the knight's Order of the Garter in order to maintain the chivalrous myth a little longer.

King John is interesting too: many people told him the (rather obvious) problems with attempting to fight in battle whilst blind, but John's response was to simply tell his soldiers to put him at the front, pointing towards the enemy so he could swing his sword and be fairly sure of hitting something English (essentially, think of that scene from the Russell Crowe Robin Hood film). Anyone willing to stand at the front of a medieval battle and not be able to see what's going on I can tell you from experience has a life expectancy of roughly ten seconds, so his death (albeit noble) was exactly as predictable as it sounds.
Anyway, the reason John is significant is because Edward's son, Edward the Black Prince (after whom my home town is named), was walking through the battlefield after the victory and came across John's body. He had heard his story and was struck by his bravery, his willingness to walk into battle knowing his death was almost certain, and as such he took his sigil of his own. King John's mark, that of the three ostrich feathers, is the sigil of the Prince of Wales (the office automatically held by the monarch's oldest son) to this day.
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Re: 365 Famous Last Words for 2014

Postby Conoros » 05 Feb 2014, 09:26

I wonder what the two guys who tied their horses to his to guide him forward think of it?

On one hand, you're part of history, but it probably rankles that in common tellings they aren't mentioned (if their actual names are even recorded at all)
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Re: 365 Famous Last Words for 2014

Postby My pseudonym is Ix » 05 Feb 2014, 09:45

Back then the idea of being 'part of history' was less of a thing than it is nowadays; the modern penchant in fantasy games & historical settings for 'the bards shall sing of this tale for ages ever after!' or equivalent is something of a modern invention (although, of course, it was always present to some extent or other). Then, the theological view took precedence- that you weren't really supposed to enjoy your earthly existence as earth was merely a sort of pre-purgatory before entry into heaven, a test rather than something meant to be worth it at the time. Whether people actually lived by that interpretation is, of course, another matter entirely. That, combined with the near-unshakeable belief in the concept of honour they had, meant they probably considered it worthwhile as being the 'noble' and 'righteous' thing to do above anything else.
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Re: 365 Famous Last Words for 2014

Postby Prospero101 » 05 Feb 2014, 09:48

If all the tales of war I've read are true, I can't imagine they even thought about historical implications or chivalrous honor or theological dogma.

I bet they just wanted to go home.
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Re: 365 Famous Last Words for 2014

Postby My pseudonym is Ix » 05 Feb 2014, 09:58

Prospero101 wrote:If all the tales of war I've read are true, I can't imagine they even thought about historical implications or chivalrous honor or theological dogma.

I bet they just wanted to go home.


That too, but knights had a certain reputation to uphold.

To jump rather forward in history, a few years ago there was a documentary about Blackadder. For those of you who haven't seen the last episode of Blackadder goes forth, a quick spoiler:

Click to Expand
Essentially, the entire episode is about the cast trying to get out of a mission, in the WW1 trenches, to go 'over the top'. They fail, and the episode ends with a quite beautiful scene in which the jingoist admits for the first time that he's scared by the prospect before all go over the trenches and get machine gunned. I highly recommend watching it, not least because the rest of it is as hilarious as Rowan Atkinson usually is


Anyway, whilst discussing this, a point was raised about the captains and officers during the First World War; yes, they were generally upper-class, well-off men who had relatively little in common with the men they commanded, and were generally selected based on class rather than ability. However, we must remember that the lower-ranked soldiers fought alongside their men and, not only that, were expected to lead them into the fray. There wasn't even the merest suggestion of desertion or cowardice, for their chance of avoiding the firing squad was even less than that of their men- they were far easier to keep track of. Thus the point of the message- wealthy toffs they may have been, but knights, squires, officers and whatever else they've been called over the years were still incredibly brave men, for doing what no sane man should ever want to and fulfilling their duty, through their fear as much as anything else, with just as much if not more bravery than the men they commanded.

Sorry, that branched a little off-topic.
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Re: 365 Famous Last Words for 2014

Postby Conoros » 05 Feb 2014, 10:11

It is a fair point really, it is something that can not be taken away from them, regardless of how the views of classes evolve.

Though as a counterpoint to that (It cant be taken from them, but why not try!) - In school I studied a book that offered a different view. It was written from the primary point of view of one of these officers. He was reluctant to go to war, and ultimately only ended up going because he was too scared to stand up to his mother and say no, not out of any form of personal bravery. It was easier to simply do what was expected than stand up for what you believed.
For the life of me I cant recall the name, gonna google it and see what I can find

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Re: 365 Famous Last Words for 2014

Postby Prospero101 » 05 Feb 2014, 10:23

I feel like the thrust of the matter is thus:

War. War never changes.
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Re: 365 Famous Last Words for 2014

Postby Hepheastus » 06 Feb 2014, 01:53

Crecy is of particular interest to me, although I won't be able to talk about it till August :/ lx is correct in saying that Crecy was the start of the decline of the ruling classes (a decline that arguably was finished of by the musket as then you could quickly mobilize large peasant forces and train them in a day if you had to) It also started a rumour that the English were unbeatable on the battle field (the thought being that the only way such a superior army could loose to a bunch of peasant cowering being pointy trees stuck in the ground was with divine provenance) This suited King Edward just fine as he had proclaimed himself the one true King of France. The rumour was cemented by similar victories at Poitiers and much later Agincourt. Although then the English were defeated by a prepubescent girl so
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Re: 365 Famous Last Words for 2014

Postby Conoros » 06 Feb 2014, 02:43

Hepheastus wrote:Crecy is of particular interest to me, although I won't be able to talk about it till August :/ lx is correct in saying that Crecy was the start of the decline of the ruling classes (a decline that arguably was finished of by the musket as then you could quickly mobilize large peasant forces and train them in a day if you had to) It also started a rumour that the English were unbeatable on the battle field (the thought being that the only way such a superior army could loose to a bunch of peasant cowering being pointy trees stuck in the ground was with divine provenance) This suited King Edward just fine as he had proclaimed himself the one true King of France. The rumour was cemented by similar victories at Poitiers and much later Agincourt. Although then the English were defeated by a prepubescent girl so


Look up Castillon too, the turnabout in the roles played by the English and French compared with Crecy is almost unbelievable
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Re: 365 Famous Last Words for 2014

Postby Hepheastus » 06 Feb 2014, 03:37

Yeah it's funny how much things can change in a hundred years (no I don't think the hundred years war was hundred years long)
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Re: 365 Famous Last Words for 2014

Postby Prospero101 » 06 Feb 2014, 07:21

Lawrence Beeter (who seems to lack a Wikipedia article, sadly) was a British soldier during WWII. Just before ducking into a bunker after a rocket attack, he said, "Maybe they only had one rocket."

An hour later, another rocket hit the bunker, destroyed it, and killed Beeter.
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Re: 365 Famous Last Words for 2014

Postby AdmiralMemo » 06 Feb 2014, 07:26

Man... He really took a beeting... *rimshot*
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Re: 365 Famous Last Words for 2014

Postby Prospero101 » 06 Feb 2014, 07:27

HORRIBLE PUN FOUL, STRIKE ONE!

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Re: 365 Famous Last Words for 2014

Postby Robo4900 » 06 Feb 2014, 07:41

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Re: 365 Famous Last Words for 2014

Postby Prospero101 » 06 Feb 2014, 07:45

What are you implying, Robo? Are you implying that I might have clay feet since I once spent an entire session of Video Games with Video James telling terrible puns to the chat?

IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE IMPLYING?!
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Re: 365 Famous Last Words for 2014

Postby Robo4900 » 06 Feb 2014, 12:42

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(Also, incidentally, I have yet to actually watch any of the YRR of LRR streams live)
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Re: 365 Famous Last Words for 2014

Postby plummeting_sloth » 06 Feb 2014, 14:24

That scene from Dirty Harry would have played out a lot different with a Panzerschreck
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Re: 365 Famous Last Words for 2014

Postby Prospero101 » 06 Feb 2014, 14:26

I get the feeling that a lot of situations play out a lot differently with a Panzerschreck.

Or, to utilize my favorite German word, a PANZERFAUST!

I cannot say that word without yelling. I have the same problem with LEIPZIG!
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Re: 365 Famous Last Words for 2014

Postby Prospero101 » 07 Feb 2014, 08:00

Sadly, most of these last words involving death in battle are less interesting in their own right and more meditations on the horrors of war.

Bernard B. Fall said "We've reached one of our phase lines after the firefight, and it smells bad - meaning it's a little suspicious - we think it might be an amb-" just before he stepped on a land mine.

Bernard Fall was a prominent historian and war correspondent in the 1950s and 1960s. He fought in the French Resistance and French Army during WWII. He survived the Nazis, but he couldn't get through 'Nam.

Man, this week is getting me all introspective.
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Re: 365 Famous Last Words for 2014

Postby Hepheastus » 07 Feb 2014, 08:04

or indeed FLAMMENWERFER!
although do not try to shout Betäubungsmittelverschreibungsverordnung because you're tongue will fall off
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