Back By Popular Demand, It's Famous Last Words!

[Prospero101]

Ooh, that could work. We could start with John Sedgwick, my personal favorite!

[plummeting_sloth]

heh... just about to my first suggestion

[Lord Hosk]

Last words of actors who played the doctor on doctor who. That will get you to monday

[Prospero101]

Er...Hosk, would you hate me if I said I'm not particularly interested in Doctor Who?

Let's go with plummeting_sloth's suggestion! From now until February 8, we'll be discussing the famous last words of individuals who died in battle! Let's lead with my personal favorite of all last words of any category.

Union General John Sedgwick, looking out across to the Confederate lines, assured his adjutant "They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist-"

[Robo4900]

I was wondering when you'd do this one.

Also:

Last words of actors who played the doctor on doctor who. That will get you to monday

Only three of the Doctors are dead(Excluding Peter Cushing), and the Patrick Troughton's last words aren't known since he died shortly after ordering breakfast at a hotel he was staying at(Which he was, funnily enough, staying at for a Doctor Who convention).

[Lord Chrusher]

This list has been rather American centric.

[plummeting_sloth]

Well, to be fair, starting with US presidents will do that. I think the current category can get us off the North American continent though

[Prospero101]

Sorry, Chrusher. Given that this is my native country, it's the place I know most about. I promise the whole list won't be exclusively American. In fact, I think our Literature Greats Month will be largely international.

As a show of good faith, I'll share some (admittedly apocryphal) British last words. King Richard III, just before being stabbed through the head with a lance at the Battle of Bosworth Field, said "My kingdom for a horse!"

[My pseudonym is Ix]

His actual last words, for the record, were "Treason, treason, treason!", uttered as he fought off the foot soldiers massing around him and his rapidly depleting bodyguard. Normally here I'd go off on a tangent and give y'all a brief tale of the battle itself, but this isn't Heph's thread.

Unless anyone particularly wants me to...

[Master Gunner]

*Raises hand*

[Prospero101]

Normally I'd invite you to go on, Ix, but, well...YOINK!

So the Battle of Bosworth Field was the last significant battle of the War of the Roses (called such because both side had a rose for their heraldic badge), a civil war over the rightful dynasty of the English Crown. Two rival branches of the royal House of Plantagenet, the House of York and the House of Lancaster, each vied for the throne in the face of the financial troubles that plagued England in the wake of the Hundred Years War and the relatively weak rule of Henry VI (read a little Shakespeare if you want to see why Henry VI wasn't well-liked).

Richard was the duke of York and made a claim to the throne after Henry VI, making himself King Richard III of England. This was challenged by Henry Tudor, Earl of Richmond and head of the House of Lancaster. After a series of sporadic encounters stretching from 1455 to 1485, the Battle of Bosworth Field ended with the death of Richard III and the victory of the House of Lancaster, effectively ending the Plantagenet dynasty. Henry would go on to marry the daughter of Edward IV, Elizabeth of York, uniting the two houses and beginning the Tudor dynasty, which would rule England until 1603.

[My pseudonym is Ix]

OK, here goes...

(Starting off with a bit of backstory, I'll get onto the battle proper when the caps start)

Shakespeare's Richard III was more a political thing than an accurate account, designed to paint Richard as a deformed murderous bastard and thus make the conquest of Queen Elizabeth's grandfather (Henry VII) seem more legitimate. It's the same reason he wrote Macbeth immediately after the Scottish James I came to the throne, and why in it he rather tactfully changed history to make his ancestor Banquo innocent of the murder of King Duncan. The point I'm trying to make is that Richard was no evil hunchback- he wore heavy armour into battle, impossible for a man with a deformed spine, and less biased historical accounts describe him as a slender, handsome man and a far from ineffectual ruler. In fact in other times, his dynasty would surely have lived on for many generations.

However, Richard had the misfortune to come to the throne during a period of near-constant warfare that have subsequently become known as the Wars Of The Roses. England between the days of the Tudors and William The Conqueror was almost exactly as chaotic as any game of Crusader Kings II would suggest, with every king having to deal with rebellions and rival claims from powerful barons- it was Henry VII who restored some stability to the English nobility and throne, but that's another story. I mention this to give some context to the chaos that followed: England had been ruled by the House Plantagenet (a direct continuation of the Norman line) for around 250 years before, in 1399, Henry Bolingbroke came to the throne to become Henry IV. He then established a subset of House Plantagenet called the House of Lancaster to legitimise a rather long claim to the throne, and in the floral tradition (the name Plantagenet refers to a type of flower that knights would, so the story goes, wear on their lapel to distinguish them from their enemies in battle) had the symbol of a red rose. And this wasn't a problem until 1422, when Henry's son Henry V (of Agincourt fame) died and was succeeded by a nine year old boy, also called Henry (for some reason everybody important in this period is called Henry, Edward or Richard, so tracking it all is mental). His claim to the throne was challenged by Richard, Duke of York, a descendent of the original Henry's grandfather Edward III, who some would argue had a better claim to Edward's throne than any of Henry's descendants. Everything all terribly simple and straightforward so far?

Anyway, the House of York had a symbol of the white rose, so when the two's squabbling broke out into a series of medium-sized succession wars we had the red rose against the white; hence, Wars of the Roses (as subsequent chroniclers dubbed it- at the time they hadn't thought of anything like that straightforward). The throne passed back and forth between the Lancastrian Henry VI and the Yorkist Edward IV- it didn't help that Henry was clinically insane and a generally rubbish king. Eventually, in 1471 Edward won and piece reigned for a while, until he had the bad manners to die and leave another bloody child on the throne, and even worse he was also called Edward. He named his brother Richard Of Gloucester protector of the realm, but Richard was ambitious and is suspected to have had the infant Edward and his brother (another damn Richard) killed in the Tower Of London. Either way, with turmoil erupting throughout the country AGAIN, Richard declared both sons illegitimate anyway and became Richard III.

This was the last straw for the Lancastrians- to them Richard was not only an illegitimate ruler but a traitor too. Unfortunately for them, Henry VI had died childless so they were forced to turn to a distant cousin, Henry Tudor (I promise this is the last new Henry) in a last-ditch attempt to put a Lancastrian on the throne.

TL;DR A BUNCH OF WEIRD SHIT WENT DOWN ABOUT WHO SHOULD BE KING FOR ABOUT 50 YEARS AND NOW THE GUY WHO IS KING PISSED EVERYONE OFF SO THIS WEIRD DUDE NOBODY'S EVER HEARD OF IS TRYING TO KILL HIM AND BECOME KING INSTEAD.

Anyway, the battle itself. Henry arrived with a good-sized body of troops, mostly French mercenaries and soldirs from his native Wales and bolstered by the support of the Lancastrian nobles. Richard's army all told was about double the size of Henry's, but he personally only commanded 3,000 of the 10,000 men total he had at his command. Worse still he was unsure of the support of one of his commanders, the Earl of Northumberland, whose family had historically been Lancastrian. And just to make things even more tasty, there was a THIRD army sitting around: Lord Stanley's allegiance was in the balance and he'd shown up with half of Norfolk sitting on a hill waiting to see who he should support.

The Yorkists had won the high ground and got to the battlefield early, so were able to watch from above as Henry assembled his troops. This was where Richard made his crucial mistake- he waited to see whether Stanley would side with him, and missed the opportunity to strike the Lancastrian army when they were at their weakest. As it was, the Lancastrians (commanded by the Earl of Oxford- Henry was no great general and knew it) were able to form up and advance up the hill without being too adversely damaged by the Yorkist cannons and archers and smashed into the Yorkists in one punch, rather than splitting into groups as was customary at the time. With numbers about equally matched, Richard called on Northumberland's 6,000 men to join the fray. Which they promptly didn't. Some say the lay of the land was against him, but more say he made the political decision to abandon his king.

Still, the battle was far from over- the Lancastrians were fighting well, but the Yorkists had the height advantage and Stanley still hadn't committed his troops yet. As Henry rode over to Stanley to persuade him and deliver his orders, Richard saw an opportunity and rode after him with a good chunk of his troops. As they engaged, Richard looked like he may have had the edge, but then Stanley made his move. With Yorkist infantry getting pushed back on the hillside and Richard separated, Stanley rode in and attacked Richard, quickly surrounding him and forcing him into a swamp. Hence Henry's final words- as he fought bravely until the bitter end, surrounded by Welsh spearmen and the soldiers of a man he had counted his ally, Henry's echoing cry of "Treason, treason, treason!" was his final curse of Stanley and every other supporter of the Tudor pretender to his throne.

(Shakespeare probably made up 'my kingdom for a horse' to make Richard seem like a coward who'd give anything for an opportunity to escape- as I said, political propaganda)

[My pseudonym is Ix]

Oh, and for the record- one might have thought that the Wars Of The Roses would have continued after this, but Henry was smart. He declared the former King Edward's sons legitimate again and then married their mother, heiress to the House Of York, thus creating a lineage that would be regarded as legitimate by both sides. And, in a nice political touch, he even combined the two sides' logos: the symbol of the House Of Tudor was a rose, with petals of both red and white.

There were other reasons for the subsequent political stability of course, but I've talked enough already.

[Master Gunner]

In further Richard III news, after his death he was buried in a friary in Leicester without much pomp. In the 16th century the friary was dissolved by Henry VIII as part of the Protestant Reformation in England, and the grave of Richard III was lost for the next 500 years. In 2012, an archeological dig uncovered the remains of the friary, and last year they confirmed that they had uncovered the remains of Richard III beneath a car park. The question of where he will be reburied is still ongoing. The main proposal is to inter the remains in Leicester Cathedral, but there are competing proposals to bury him in York, or even Westminster Abby. The present Royal Family has remained quiet on the issue.

In a scientific aside, it is fortunate that we rediscovered Richard III when we did, as a generation from now it would be near-impossible to confirm the identity of the remains. As he has no living direct patrilineal descendents (which would have allowed identification based on the Y chromosome), DNA confirmation was made through mitochondrial DNA, which is passed through the female line from his sister, Anne of York. Anne's last matrilineal descendent died a few years ago, but her son, Micheal Ibson, was able to provide a positive mitochondrial DNA match to Richard III. A generation from now, there will be no known person alive who would be able to provide that DNA link. (Arguably, one could exhume the grave of a known relative...but that would generally not go over well).

[Prospero101]

Well...I've just been shown up on my own thread. Maybe I should just leave Ix the keys on my way out.

[empath]

On the contrary; you ENABLED all this wonderful historical information!

I eagerly look forward to what you have for us tomorrow!

[My pseudonym is Ix]

Sorry Prospero, I got a little carried away. Didn't even notice you'd posted until I came back to read Master Gunner's reply.

[Prospero101]

I'm only kidding, Ix. I don't particularly care HOW people learn about history. I only care WHETHER they learn.

Also, empath, tomorrow will be another American Civil War general, but from the OTHER side!

[Prospero101]

Confederate General Stonewall Jackson, just before he was accidentally shot by a Confederate picket just before the Battle of Chancellorsville in 1863, said "Let us cross over the river and rest under the shade of those trees."

Curiously, he didn't actually die from the gunshot. He survived with an amputated arm, but died of complications from pneumonia eight days later. Apparently he did not say a word for eight days. Perhaps he was in a coma?

[Bebop Man]

Maybe he couldn't think of anything witty or memorable to say.

[Prospero101]

Old Stonewall was a man of few words, to be sure.

[Prospero101]

General George Armstrong Custer, just before getting him and his men slaughtered at the Battle of Little Bighorn, said, "Hurrah, boys! Let's get these last few reds then head on back to camp! Hurrah!"

[Lord Hosk]

Custer was an ass... Growing up in SE Michigan he was a big deal and his accomplishments were touted as genius but when you look at them at all they clearly show a bull headed person with no regard for himself or others.

He was only saved from expulsion from West Point three times because of the looming war and the need for officers. He graduated last in his class when west point shut down temporarily and almost wasnt given a commission at all. His First duty was as a message runner between generals, he was often accused of giving partial messages and then saying "but what I was thinking..." and finishing the message as it was given taking credit for the best parts of plans. He endeared himself to General McClellan by charging out into a raging river that the army was trying to figure out if it could cross and yelling "it aint that deep Mr General, bring the boys in." He was promoted to Captain because his regiment had 12 captains killed in one day. He was demoted 9 times in his short career. His two major accomplishments were "Custer's charge" at Gettysburg, which broke the back of General Lee's attack, and commanding a charge which captured over 50 confederate soldiers at New Bridge which captured the first confederate battle flag of the war.

The attack on New Bridge was of 4 companies of Union troops (300-500 men) who attacked roughly 60 confederate rear supply troops who were caught packing up supplies and baggage.

The attack at Gettysburg did break the back of the confederate line, but they were already starting to break, and he did so by ordering his troops to charge headlong into the attack with no regard for enemy entrenchment or equipment. Over 250 of his men were killed, the highest loss of any brigade in the union army in any single battle in the war. There were also over 500 injured estimates are 65% of the brigade was taken out of the army that day by death and severe injury.

Then at the battle of little Bighorn, he abandoned his artillery to move faster, ignored reports that the 'enemy' was preparing an ambush. And at least three times ignored opportunities to retreat.

[empath]

There's a word for people like that: "buffoon".

[Prospero101]

There's an alternate history series by Harry Turtledove that includes the fact that the Battle of Little Bighorn never happened, so that Custer survived to inflict his buffoonery up to and including WWI. *shudder*