Sherlock Lives

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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby My pseudonym is Ix » 05 Jan 2014, 10:48

Personally I liked it: don't think it was their best, but still very good. However, I also really hated the last episode of last series, so what do I know.
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby Elomin Sha » 05 Jan 2014, 14:01

Such a good episode.

I had to stop at certain points in the speech because of the awkwardness, even though I was laughing at it.

Best parts: "This sort of happened." Sherlock's smile during the interrogation scene for the usher.
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby iamafish » 06 Jan 2014, 01:22

I thought the Empty Hersh was by far the worse Sherlock Episode to date. It was totally incoherent. As has been mentioned, the whole episode seemed to be about the fact that Sherlock was back, without actually focusing on any real plot. The whole bomb thing was underplayed and the resolution was totally unsatisfying.

In fact, if 'I like Trains' guy had actually liked trains enough to have noticed that there was an abandoned station under parliament, which you'd think he would, given how much he liked trains, and that he was specifically looking at what was around the area. You'd also think he'd notice the amount of time it took for the train to get between stations and you'd think that someone would notice that they were missing a whole fucking carriage!

You can't hang an entire 90 min episode on 'hey look, our main character isn't dead, woo'

On a brighter note, the most recent episode was really good. I was a little skeptical initially, but my god, did it ever come together at the end! That's how you do a really clever mix of character work and plot (Also nice to see a little more of Mrs Hudson's past)

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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby Geoff_B » 06 Jan 2014, 02:05

Best part of latest episode was Sherlock's drunk deductions ("Egg? Chair? Sitty thing? Skull? Deaded?) :D
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby My pseudonym is Ix » 06 Jan 2014, 12:02

Latest episode utterly fantastic- for all sorts of non-Sherlocky reasons. Just really nice to watch.
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby viscomica » 07 Jan 2014, 19:22

Don't hit me (please, I'm a girl) but I really absolutely loved the first episode from season 3. I will no give any apoilers but I think Sherlock's comeback was brilliant. Finally he's owning up that he just adores the deerstalker (at last!)
I'm yet to watch the sign of three so I'll come back to you on that later.
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby Darkobra » 08 Jan 2014, 06:58

Watched the new episode. I loved it to bits.

I figured out the who but not the how in this one. I knew who the Mayfly guy was, I knew their objective but I just could not figure out HOW! I'd never have thought such a manner of death was possible.

An hour and a half is great but only 3 episodes per series is crushing. I mean next week is the END of series 3? I need more!
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby Geoff_B » 08 Jan 2014, 07:56

Darkobra wrote:Watched the new episode. I loved it to bits.

I figured out the who but not the how in this one. I knew who the Mayfly guy was, I knew their objective but I just could not figure out HOW! I'd never have thought such a manner of death was possible.

An hour and a half is great but only 3 episodes per series is crushing. I mean next week is the END of series 3? I need more!


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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby Master Gunner » 08 Jan 2014, 16:12

Latest episode was perhaps one of the best yet. Loved it.
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby viscomica » 10 Jan 2014, 17:07

I did not like the second episode of the last season. At all.
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It was dull, it was goofy, had a brilliant moment when Sherlock solved the case (and those brief Mycroft moments) but then it went back to being .... just very un-Sherlock. I want exciting crime cases, LONG exciting crime cases and chasing people in the street, investigating, preventing terrorist attacks and saving lives from potential serial psycho killers. In short, everything The sign of three wasn't.
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby Bebop Man » 10 Jan 2014, 18:42

viscomica wrote:I did not like the second episode of the last season. At all.
Click to Expand
It was dull, it was goofy, had a brilliant moment when Sherlock solved the case (and those brief Mycroft moments) but then it went back to being .... just very un-Sherlock. I want exciting crime cases, LONG exciting crime cases and chasing people in the street, investigating, preventing terrorist attacks and saving lives from potential serial psycho killers. In short, everything The sign of three wasn't.


So what you want is The Reichenback Fall over and over? :P
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby Lyinginbedmon » 10 Jan 2014, 18:58

I like it a lot. Sure, it wasn't dominantly "Sherlock being Sherlock", but it is a very real situation from the Conan Doyle stories that Sherlock should be involved in, even though it's far from his comfort zone. And what's more, having him do all that he can to succeed for John's sake in that fish-out-of-water situation shows precisely the character development that is very needed in this modern retelling and that people complained was so sudden last episode.
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby viscomica » 10 Jan 2014, 19:02

Well, I don't know... it is a retelling after all. And I think we owe that to Conan Doyle, to respect his character as he thought him to be. Sherlock being Sherlock is what I like and enjoy most about the series, and pushing so many changes and not solving the case until way past half the episode is unacceptable to me. Sorry folks, just not my cup of tea.
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby viscomica » 10 Jan 2014, 19:03

Bebop Man wrote:
viscomica wrote:I did not like the second episode of the last season. At all.
Click to Expand
It was dull, it was goofy, had a brilliant moment when Sherlock solved the case (and those brief Mycroft moments) but then it went back to being .... just very un-Sherlock. I want exciting crime cases, LONG exciting crime cases and chasing people in the street, investigating, preventing terrorist attacks and saving lives from potential serial psycho killers. In short, everything The sign of three wasn't.


So what you want is The Reichenback Fall over and over? :P


In a nutshell, yes :D
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby Bebop Man » 10 Jan 2014, 19:15

And Sherlock taking Watson's hand and gayly prancing about, I suppose.
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby viscomica » 10 Jan 2014, 19:29

Not really :) I'd rather keep fanfiction and the actual series sepparated.
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby Bebop Man » 10 Jan 2014, 19:34

But that totally happened in the series!
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby viscomica » 10 Jan 2014, 19:44

Hmm, how so? I guess... I like it whenever other characters like Mss Hudson and Irene Adler mock them about their odd friendship and even mistake them for a couple. :D
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby Bebop Man » 10 Jan 2014, 19:46

When they were handcuffed and fleeing in Reichenbach.
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby Darkobra » 10 Jan 2014, 22:33

Lyinginbedmon wrote:I like it a lot. Sure, it wasn't dominantly "Sherlock being Sherlock", but it is a very real situation from the Conan Doyle stories that Sherlock should be involved in, even though it's far from his comfort zone. And what's more, having him do all that he can to succeed for John's sake in that fish-out-of-water situation shows precisely the character development that is very needed in this modern retelling and that people complained was so sudden last episode.


I completely agree. Sherlock's trying to adapt to the modern world. As he said himself, he's a high-functioning sociopath.

The first episode lacked a real case which bothered me immensely. The second episode MORE than made up for it. I loved it! And Sherlock was shown to be in a very, very real situation that was completely alien to him and tried to take control of it in a way he knew how.

Hell, I STILL can't figure out people. It's not easy! They get offended when I say something that needs to be said, even when I'm right. Even when they know I'm right. I can relate to Sherlock. I just don't have my Watson.
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby My pseudonym is Ix » 11 Jan 2014, 01:52

viscomica wrote:Well, I don't know... it is a retelling after all. And I think we owe that to Conan Doyle, to respect his character as he thought him to be. Sherlock being Sherlock is what I like and enjoy most about the series, and pushing so many changes and not solving the case until way past half the episode is unacceptable to me. Sorry folks, just not my cup of tea.


Conan Doyle's Sherlock is the product of a fan fiction- a superhuman with the mental alacrity of 12 Stephen Hawkings and a Richard Feynman or two, almost inhuman physical strength, great charm and zero flaws worth speaking of (bar his tendency to get high every once in a while). In the same token, John Watson is an empty blank of a character with almost no personality of his own whose essential sole focus is to act as narrator. Characters like Mary and Mrs. Hudson barely exist, Lestrade and the other detectives are completely interchangeable- in short, characterisation was never the strong suit of the original. The thing that made Sherlock Holmes so popular was his deductions, the part of him that was generally superhuman, but attempting to directly translate the original character into a TV/film format has been tried several times and was never particularly interesting.

The thing that has made both this reimagining (and, indeed, Guy Ritchie's recent film version to a somewhat lesser extent) so compelling to watch has been the changes that Gatiss, Moffat & Co. have applied to the characters involved. They have given Sherlock weaknesses, which made the contrast between him and Watson in the first series so endlessly watchable, and they have given his character somewhere to go, providing a character development arc that prevented the second series just being a repeat of the first. If this version attempted to ape the original, every episodes would be 40 minutes of setup and exposition, 20 minutes of action followed by a half-hour lecture from Holmes of 'how I solved it aren't I brilliant'. This, to me at least, is simply not as compelling as investigating the characters that the reimagining has made so genuinely interesting and engaging to watch, and now the brilliant deduction and mental acrobatics of his cases has a solid base from which to be as appreciably awesome as it always was.

That was why I liked the most recent episode- partly it was refreshing, a change from the norm that prevented either becoming predictable or stagnant. It was also genuinely funny. But what was really nice was seeing all the development in Sherlock's character over the past two series' genuinely pay off. We see a character who has been shaped by his experiences, is genuinely struggling to make something he would instinctively consider stupid and sentimental work for somebody he genuinely cares about in a way he never thought he would. I'm not saying I want this from every episode, and frankly I'm looking forward to a good 'epic case' for him to work through next time, but I feel it is unfair to dismiss the episode for being 'un-Sherlocky'. Yes it was- but it was good precisely because of all these un-Sherlocky things.

Ahem.
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby iamafish » 11 Jan 2014, 02:35

well put that man! I was about to say all that, but you got there first ;)

If you actually analyse the original Sherlock Holmes in terms of its qualities as works of fiction, they're dross. There's no character development, characters like Moriarty and Adler pop in for once short story and then never show up again, there's no over-arching plot, just a series of incidents.

this all makes sense when you consider that they're short stories printed in a fairly cheap magazine intended for mass purchase. They're not sophisticated works, but little vignettes intended to entertain in a very basic level

That format works just fine for the Victorian equivalent of a comic strip, but for a TV series things have to work a little differently. There has to be much more of an arc to things, both in terms of plot and character that takes place over several episodes if not series. Things have to move forward, or else it would begin to get very stale indeed.
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby Bebop Man » 11 Jan 2014, 05:55

Correction, Irene and Moriarty don't even "pop" at all - they are never seen, nor do they interact with any of the characters in real time. They are people Holmes tells Watson about, and that's the only characterization they get.

Lestrade's character on the other hand depends mostly on what story you're reading, since Doyle was a little bit inconsistent with the character.
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby Darkobra » 11 Jan 2014, 13:17

Man, do I need a Watson.

Suppose I better start interviewing.
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby My pseudonym is Ix » 11 Jan 2014, 13:54

Ooh! Pick me! Pick me! I only live five hours drive away!
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